Then I think it was a wrong choice by those there at Champs Camp and I don't know what kind of usefulness they can have, if they don't even have knowledge of the program and the chance to help her choose between the two. Same with Karen, I'm for freedom and all but I think the federation should have helped her go back to the past program instead of losing time creating a third for such a close competition.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
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Then I think it was a wrong choice by those there at Champs Camp and I don't know what kind of usefulness they can have, if they don't even have knowledge of the program and the chance to help her choose between the two. Same with Karen, I'm for freedom and all but I think the federation should have helped her go back to the past program instead of losing time creating a third for such a close competition.
My point is that for that night I felt that the top three had more compelling performances, and I have a feeling it reflected in the PCS scores. Again YMMV, but that is just how I saw it.
I was actually looking forward to see La La Land and as I said, I have enjoyed seeing Ashley's skating in the past, but she didn't do it for me as much as she has in the past.
All that said, I hope she does great at 4CC, I agree with another poster that I do appreciate the departure from her usual past programs.
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- Jul 9, 2014
I really feel sorry for Ashley but, I can't help but feel this was her fault. I know she blames the judges but, they had never seen the program before that night and it's so difficult to see the intricacies when you see a program for the first time. Even now, I re-watch her LP and I like it more every time I see it. I think she has a great shot of winning 4CC if she goes clean...Maybe she'll return for one last season and skate LLL from day 1.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I wonder to what extent the audience was more receptive to Karen because she was a local skater. Even a bit of positive response from the audience can light a spark in a skater's performance. Watching on TV, you don't get a sense of the audience around you but perhaps that can, in some way, make you view things more objectively. Personally, I think it's very interesting to examine the psychological impacts of everything that goes on off the ice and how it impacts the skater's score. Often, when some of us don't like a result we blame politics or outright cheating, but being a judge in the venue and assessing a program objectively must be awfully difficult because I'm sure the judges use audience reaction as a heuristic to evaluate performance quality.
You have a point there. I think of Jason's Riverdance in 2014. While it was exciting to witness that skate in person, I totally lol-ed at his PCS scores. At the time his best PCS internationally was barely 80 and he got like 90+ there. I chalk it up to the just the explosive reaction of the audience. And it's too bad, because I think it gave that perception that Jason was some USFS golden boy and really didn't reflect how much he grew on the program components side over the last few years. I'd say 90+ is more merited now because of his overall improvement in his SS and overall technical skating quality, but you'd look at the scores (domestically) and think he didn't develop.
All that said -- we didn't have anything like that with the top three, but again I'll came in pretty meh about U.S. Ladies and came out impressed by those three, so their performance had some affect on me.
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- Aug 12, 2014
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Yes, I did get that from your post.
. All things considered, I still don't think the judges marked her with fairness. It seemed more like a decision that they'd already made, to be extra strict with her if there were any excuse. YMMV.I'm really proud of Ashley that she never got into the game of questioning the others' marks. She spoke only about the scores in relationship to herself ... even in the disappointment of the moment.
I think with the program changes and the withdrawal from Skate America, the judges and USFSA felt that Ashley needed to prove herself this season. She couldn't just do a nice program in a pretty dress. The three women who are going all fought hard for their skates--particularly Bradie and Mirai. I don't think the judges and the fed were set against Ashley, but they weren't going to go out of their way to back her a second time. Their attitude, in fact, was a bit similar to the attitude they had toward Mirai--yes, you're good, but you're not *that* good. Meanwhile, Mirai (and Adam Rippon) had the sentimental favorite thing going for them, combined with obvious improvements in their skating.
I also saw LLL live and my impression is pretty much the same as Mrs. P's--it was nice, not stellar. I think if she had been skating it all season and tweaked and worked on it, it could be stellar.
Mostly, I'm sorry that there's no pro circuit still around--that's where both Ashley and Jason Brown belong.
I also saw LLL live and my impression is pretty much the same as Mrs. P's--it was nice, not stellar. I think if she had been skating it all season and tweaked and worked on it, it could be stellar.
Mostly, I'm sorry that there's no pro circuit still around--that's where both Ashley and Jason Brown belong.
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- Aug 29, 2017
I wonder what the logic is here... I would have them in reverse, personally. I think Bradie has the better chance at a high FS score, and Mirai's high tech would give her a solid SP. Hm..
Errors in the short tend to be more costly though--Mirai's kind of high-risk/high gain. Bradie seems more likely to be clean. Plus, she has that Korean-themed short, so that's a plus with the audience.
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- Jul 9, 2014
I think it depends on how much recovery time there will be. Is the ladies free program before or after the team event? If the singles event is first, maybe Bradie feel she'll be too tired to perform another LP.
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Maybe Bradie wants to save herself for the individual event. I remember Yulia being spectacular during the team event and no so great during the individual event.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Please be more specific about the podcast.
Which podcast?
And who said so on the podcast?
I am surprised because in 2014, U.S. skaters spoke in the hypothetical until official assignments were made public. (And USFS did not make an early announcement.) e.g., "If I compete in the team event FS, then ...."
For me, this point is important, and I thank you for recognizing it.
I think the word "agenda" is quite loaded and if it were being tossed around too lightly, I -- as an example of someone who always is supportive of a favorite skater -- would have no leg to stand on if I were accused of having a pro-Max "agenda."
Would prefer for the word to be reserved only for the most extreme of opinions.
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- Jul 31, 2014
Well in fairness Mirai did slay at Japan open with a clean 8 triple program where she did not have to skate a SP first. So maybe they and her feel that this format of only the free/free first works well for her. We do at least have some evidence it might work out.
Honestly though, I would have put Bradie in both. How do they deal with splitting Men vs Dance? I can't see Nathan being willing to do both, and if you split men who does dance? It is just madness.
My only thought is they are going for "better than bronze" and want to get Nathan to do both. A Shib short dance plus a H/D free with debut as National champions boost could be powerful. Toss in a clean 8 triple free from Mirai, two Nathan skates and a small miracle from Alexa and Chris and it could happen with this team.
It was TSL and they provide info from around 52 minutes onwards: https://youtu.be/rj8Z92HpLac?t=3125
Now I am aware some skaters in the team event were announced on the day of the event in Sochi for strategic reasons. These guys say they've "received texts" with this info and quite a few other pieces of information. But they do seem to have a lot of inside information that eventually turns out to be true.
The point of the team event SP is not to juggle with scores but to advance to the FP, where five teams will be admitted. It makes sense that Bradie will be the one doing it since she is the one who seems more consistent with her technical layout.
Frankly I think that Bradie will also skate the LP because they won't wear out Nathan, who is the one with an actual shot at the podium and they have three equally worthy ice dance teams to split the team event. The probable choices could be: Bradie (SP & LP), K/K (SP & LP), Nathan (SP) & Adam (LP), Shib (SP) - H/D (LP). We will see though, but I think that if a skater will be given a choice then of skating one or two programs it will be Nathan and not one of the ladies.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I would be surprised if this decision was already made, although the USFSA now has all the data points it would use to do so. As long as the Shibutanis participate I'll be happy.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Sincere thanks for the reply and the link.
(That said, I haven't listened yet, and will be in no rush to listen. Lost interest in TSL quite a while ago, regardless of their track record. YMMV.)
Oh I know, I would even say thanks to their track record, not regardless of it. A tweet I read made me listen to it today. I don't know where they get their info, but they seem to know some things before they are officially announced.
