She said only that “Nobody will let us jump all in second part. Unfortunately.” She didn’t mention ISU.
2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
She said only that “Nobody will let us jump all in second part. Unfortunately.” She didn’t mention ISU.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
Lakernik said: "One of the ideas of Eteri Tutberidze’s group, where today’s leading women train, was the relocation of jumps into the second half of the program. Our congress could limit the value of such jumps. They will still cost more, just not as much as now."
maybe 5% instead of 10%
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
There was some talk of Irina Slutskaya in a different thread, which made me think... How is Irina Slutskaya's school? About a week ago they seem to have uploaded tons and tons of updates / photos on the VK page, with Slutskaya apparently even coaching. At least there are some autograph sessions, coaching sessions by her etc.
Looks to mostly be younger girls, though. But well, that's not really all that different from how Plushenko's is.
VK page
Looks to mostly be younger girls, though. But well, that's not really all that different from how Plushenko's is.
VK page
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2016
Lakernik said: "One of the ideas of Eteri Tutberidze’s group, where today’s leading women train, was the relocation of jumps into the second half of the program. Our congress could limit the value of such jumps. They will still cost more, just not as much as now."
maybe 5% instead of 10%
That would be a better solution than banning backloading, if they feel they have to do something. Or say that the bonus can apply only to a max number of jumping passes, like 4-5, which would eliminate the incentive to have them all backloaded without encouraging front-loading.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2005
Thank you for the quote. It is unclear what/who she meant by "nobody" but we will find out soon enough.
But if this is the new rule then i am sure that everyone and i mean everyone will do the allowed jumpinh passes in the 2nd half so it will be basically the same from everyone.
I don‘t know if this will be annoying because spins and step sequences and choreo sequences won‘t be the same...
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2016
I'm not saying that I necessarily think that's what they should do, just that if they feel they have to do something those would be preferable options to banning full backloading.
ohhh yeah, like when skaters do 2 spins in a row at the end of the program. For some reason nobody calls that not balanced (and it is).
Frontloading is easy. It is encouraged whenever it is not discouraged imho.
Anyways, there is 1 girl on senior level that does complete backloading (and we dont even know if she will keep doing it next season). If ISU changes this, it will be utterly ridiculous.
Overall, they seem to be doing everything to get FS removed from Winter Olympics =(
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
Ugh, I don't get it.
Literally 99.99% of skaters start their programs with a jumping element. And when there's one skater that does something differently, that's seen as a huge problem requiring rule changes. Where's the logic? Wouldn't it be more sensible to limit performing a jump as the first element considering that's what almost everyone does, rather than focusing on the one skater who does things differently.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
I think the problem isn't so much Alina's backloading as it is that there's a lot of juniors who are increasingly going to do the same thing, and it may happen that in 3-4 years backloaded programs are the norm. Now, it does work in some cases but I personally wouldn't like to see a bunch of backloaded programs with 2 'empty' minutes at the beginning. Just my opinion though.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2018
so, i've seen this on the pure magic youtube channel. berestovskaya 4T attempt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuoFUR76Jx8
was it discussed? what do you think about it shayuki?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuoFUR76Jx8
was it discussed? what do you think about it shayuki?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
What really annoys me is that I feel that those variants of rules changing that are commented publicly seem like to force skaters to arrange programs the same way, like max 5 jumps in the 2nd part, same beginning and so on. Thats what is good on present system that it allows skaters to arrange programs just by their nature and stamina, not forcing them to particular design which would be varying just music and some little elements. Maybe I see it too much pessimistic but from what I heard about the changes till now it looks that I will not like it.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
Me? :think:
A bit surprised and very happy that Berestovskaya can actually find even such air time, that's looked like a big problem for her and is very promising for the future. Still, the air time's clearly not enough for the quad at this point in time. On the other hand, the rotation speed's amazing and extremely fast. The position in the air isn't as good as some but isn't as bad as some, either. Maybe she could work on it a little. The jump's very underrated and deserving of a downgrade but then again, she is only 10 years old.
It does make me hopeful for her quad prospects for sure. I'm looking forward to the next season a lot~
Well, I think that they should wait and see if it actually ends up being the case. It could also be that as they mature they actually would not be able to keep doing such a thing. And even so, it's not everyone fully backloading. Only Eteri girls. And just a couple of them.
I believe it was only Alena Kostornaia and Daria Panenkova doing it last season in international juniors so I'd like to know who those "a lot" are, in any case.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
It’s clearly an increasing trend, though. No one did it and it was usually 3/4 or 4/3, then it was 2/5, 1/6, and now 0/7. First it was only Zagitova, now it’s Panenkova and Kostornaia (and Trusova backloads everything that isn’t a quad).With that in mind, if they’re going to make a rule change to address it once it’s already become a common thing, then what’s the point of waiting? Might as well preempt it. I view it similarly to the Zayak rule—sure, nobody else at the time was regularly landing four triple toes in a program, but did they really want to wait and see whether or not it would happen? Imagine Carmen with eight triples but all them are toes and salchows. *shudders*
Personally, I’d rather see the dividing line between technical merit being how many different skills a skater can showcase: better 3S, 3F, 3T vs 3T, 3T, 3T, 3T. Similarly, I’d rather the dividing line today between skaters with similar content be how well they can do it, rather than how much of it they can do in the second half. Eteri girls will have to find a way to turn those +2 and +3 GOEs into straight +3s instead.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
Zayak's a bit different. Zayaking is something that takes less ability. Backloading is something that takes more ability.
In any case, I doubt full backloading is even a concern with Trusova. She'll have plenty of material to do at the start of the program. Kostornaia? The 3A looks so good I assume she'll repeat it. Remains to be seen whether she's going to actually attempt to backload it. So it leaves Zagitova(Who with puberty changes is in doubt whether she can even keep doing it) and Panenkova(Who's had inconsistency struggles to end the season and whose body type isn't ideal for puberty anyway). And Shcherbakova, I guess(Who might have a quad as well). I still, by the way, don't see the problem with even 3 or 4 skaters opening with something other than the jump that the 20 other skaters open with. And in any case, if they are to cap it at 2-5 I guess we're all going to enjoy the "balanced" programs with two 2As to start the program.
In any case, I doubt full backloading is even a concern with Trusova. She'll have plenty of material to do at the start of the program. Kostornaia? The 3A looks so good I assume she'll repeat it. Remains to be seen whether she's going to actually attempt to backload it. So it leaves Zagitova(Who with puberty changes is in doubt whether she can even keep doing it) and Panenkova(Who's had inconsistency struggles to end the season and whose body type isn't ideal for puberty anyway). And Shcherbakova, I guess(Who might have a quad as well). I still, by the way, don't see the problem with even 3 or 4 skaters opening with something other than the jump that the 20 other skaters open with. And in any case, if they are to cap it at 2-5 I guess we're all going to enjoy the "balanced" programs with two 2As to start the program.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
If I understand correctly, rumor has it that they will put a cap on how many jumps in the 2nd half will get bonus. So you can do all jumps in the second half, but not all of them will get bonus.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2018
0/7 programs is a great showcases of skater's stamina that give just about 2-2.5 points of advantage over the people with so called "balanced" programs. it's wonderful to see how zagitova or kostornaia looking fresh on their last element, after they skated a fully backloaded program. while someone like osmond struggling through the second half. in my view backloading wasn't awarded well enough. just about 2 points for such effort seems like a joke.
but hopefully eteri's girls will continue to skate 0/7 programs just to show that they can, even if they will not receive points for that at all.
certainly it looks threatening for some people. and all complaints about backloading that alina received from canadian commentators and their followers wasn't because of a small points advantage or because it's "not pretty".
people are feel threatening by the girls who can do something that others can't.
but hopefully eteri's girls will continue to skate 0/7 programs just to show that they can, even if they will not receive points for that at all.
certainly it looks threatening for some people. and all complaints about backloading that alina received from canadian commentators and their followers wasn't because of a small points advantage or because it's "not pretty".
people are feel threatening by the girls who can do something that others can't.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
Oh, I'm not saying they are right now, I think that seeing the amazing effect it had for Alina it could be increasingly done. It may not happen, of course it's not something that's feasible for everyone. But I do understand where the ISU's concern is coming from, tbh, as seeing say 10 backloaded program in a row would become really boring really quickly. I guess we'll have to see what they do and to what extent though.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
Relevant re: whether there should be a rule restricting it in the first place. But completely irrelevant as to whether rules should be made early to prevent a situation from becoming widespread.
I don’t see anything wrong with this. Quite a few of my favorites program have opened with an immediate LSp or StSq before any jumps. I wish more did it.
I... doubt everyone will be going for a 7-triple back half. Even Medvedeva doesn’t try it with her 2/5 layout. It’s still very difficult. But how is the hypothetical layout you gave any more rote and dull than the current backloaded layouts we see: all three difficult combinations done first, in a row, in descending order of difficulty, and then the rest of the solo triples, and then the Axels.
Whether we can still enjoy the programs despite predictable elements depends entirely on the choreography, music, and what the skater can bring to it. Do they have the skating skills, interpretive and performance abilities of Kostornaia, or are they labored and flat, or immature but exuberant, or fast but sloppy? Etc, etc, etc. All 2/5 or 5/2 or 0/7 programs are not created equally.
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