2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[moriel]

Do you really think someone of their caliber would go to an early season comp? I don't, unless they just want to try out new programs. I hardly think Med and Zag would 'lower' themselves, honestly.

Actually, Orser clearly stated his plan for her was either Autumn Classic or Finlandia.

 

[Hello from Brazil]

It is not unusual for top skaters to take part in one or two CS events before the GP series, it is some kind of test for the programs

 

[Yoa]

Do you really think someone of their caliber would go to an early season comp? I don't, unless they just want to try out new programs. I hardly think Med and Zag would 'lower' themselves, honestly.

But that's exactly Brian's plan. He said he wants Evgenia to compete in one early competition. ACI will be close to Toronto. They will get feedback from international judges and there will be enough time to fix some things before GP series. Also it's better to test new rules in less important competition.

And I guess Yuzuru has been lowering himself for the past few years...

 

[tars]

That Dutch fed wrote, 2004 girls will have a choice before 2019/20 season: stay in juniors or enter the seniors for one year and return to juniors for 2020/21. :whack:

So not only the reform is absurd, but it's introduction as well, congrats.

 

[ejnsofi]

Do you really think someone of their caliber would go to an early season comp? I don't, unless they just want to try out new programs. I hardly think Med and Zag would 'lower' themselves, honestly.

Evgenia already participated in challenger series. Kaetlyn, Yuzuru and Javier were at Autumn Classic. Nathan, Patrick and Mao are Finland Trophy medalists. I guess "lowering" themselves is just top skaters thing

 

[vorravorra]

Actually, her prize money wouldnt cover the full costs of her training in Canada even if rusfed confiscates it all ^^ Just saying.

Basically, the reluctance is kinda simple:
- Orser is an unproven entity. Moreover, he had no star ladies after Yuna.
- There are better coaches in Russia for ladies (Eteri beats Orser by a large margin, and tbh we can say Sotskova currently performs better than Orser's ladies, so add Buyanova too).
- Orser is expensive as hell for Russian standards. Ahen, pensions of USD250/month to a hourly rate of more than USD110.
- The money the team members receive as funding would be pretty much irrelevant to such costs. Also, this funding is mostly not $$$ as people pointed out, but direct investment in rinks and so on.

Last but not least, I will be a bit honest here. Before reading, you may research a bit on what happened during 90s in Russia to understand the logic.
- Mistrust of western methods: we had a lot of experiences with the west making money on russians during 90s, we don't like that. Unlike russian coaches, Orser doesn't get paid for results, but hourly regardless of results. He already stated that the first 6 months will cost more than usual. He already stated that it will take over a year for his coaching methods to lead to visible results. He got nothing to lose if Medvedeva fails, because he can just make a sad face and say she came injured and it was beyond repair.

Russian coaches don't get paid for results, they are paid a salary. Otherwise the great majority of coaches who do not train regional/national team members would get no money whatsoever. They get extra money from successful students, it's true.

 

[Shayuki]

It is not unusual for top skaters to take part in one or two CS events before the GP series, it is some kind of test for the programs

More importantly, it's a very effective way to gain SP and world ranking points. You get 300 points for a win, the fields tend to be easy and the scoring is so inflated that high SBs are easy to generate.

 

[singermelodie1]

That Dutch fed wrote, 2004 girls will have a choice before 2019/20 season: stay in juniors or enter the seniors for one year and return to juniors for 2020/21. :whack:

So not only the reform is absurd, but it's introduction as well, congrats.

That just sounds like a mess

 

[tars]

That just sounds like a mess

Potentially, reigning 2020 World Champion in figure skating would have to compete with juniors next year. :whack:

It says much about intellectual fundaments of this "reform".

 

[moriel]

Russian coaches don't get paid for results, they are paid a salary. Otherwise the great majority of coaches who do not train regional/national team members would get no money whatsoever. They get extra money from successful students, it's true.

Russian coaches actually get paid for results.
It is a custom for the skaters to share their prize money with coaches, on top of the salary. Also, quite surely, government gives better funding to coaches with top students.
So basically, government pays them all some salary. Then, the top ones also get extra funding from fed and part of prize money from skater.

 

[Shayuki]

Russian coaches actually get paid for results.
It is a custom for the skaters to share their prize money with coaches, on top of the salary. Also, quite surely, government gives better funding to coaches with top students.
So basically, government pays them all some salary. Then, the top ones also get extra funding from fed and part of prize money from skater.

Do they get any sort of transfer compensation, by the way? For instance, let's say an immensely talented skater in an unknown club in the middle of nowhere moves to train under Eteri. I assume that initial club doesn't get any compensation? If so, it's a bit harsh because the job they do is important as well.

 

[moriel]

Do they get any sort of transfer compensation, by the way? For instance, let's say an immensely talented skater in an unknown club in the middle of nowhere moves to train under Eteri. I assume that initial club doesn't get any compensation? If so, it's a bit harsh because the job they do is important as well.

Nops, no compensation.
But i guess it is the same everywhere - the "base" coaches get paid not so well and gain nothing except experience out of the talented skaters that start with them.

 

[charlotte14]

I really like Yuzu as a skater and a person and his achievements are really great, but he isn't Russian lady atm. Sorry

Indeed he isn’t Russian lady, he has lasted for 8 consecutive seasons in the senior circle.

Back to Russian ladies, people really think Russian fed want to cut down their medal source just to stop Eteri? You know... there are much easier ways to do that. Lol

 

[lesnar001]

Hanyu has been skating in the senior circle from 15 years old. 8 years later and he is a 2 times OGM, 2 time WC, 4 times GPF gold.
Yes, indeed he isn’t Russian lady. Because he has longevity.

Back to Russian ladies, people really think Russian fed want to cut down their medal source just to stop Eteri? You know... there are much easier ways to do that. Lol

OMG - Hanyu was competing as a senior at 15!
Why was this allowed to happen????
Shoulda been sent back to juniors.

 

[Shayuki]

Back to Russian ladies, people really think Russian fed want to cut down their medal source just to stop Eteri? You know... there are much easier ways to do that. Lol

It wouldn't surprise me. And there's a very recent precedent already - Sacrificing Polina Tsurskaya's medal potential in order to send Stanislava Konstantinova.

I don't think it's an effective plan, certainly. In fact, I think this will only make Eteri more dominant in the long run. But Russian fed's thought process has always been difficult to comprehend.

 

[charlotte14]

OMG - Hanyu was competing as a senior at 15!
Why was this allowed to happen????
Shoulda been sent back to juniors.

Yes. He won his first international medal at 4CC 2011 when he was 16. His first GP gold at CoR when he was 16. His first WC bronze when he was 17. He was still young enough to go back to junior world when be won Olympic Sochi.
Image if those days they sent him back to junior lmao.
Honestly I don’t think they will pass the age rule. People are getting worried over nothing.

 

[charlotte14]

It wouldn't surprise me. And there's a very recent precedent already - Sacrificing Polina Tsurskaya's medal potential in order to send Stanislava Konstantinova.

I don't think it's an effective plan, certainly. In fact, I think this will only make Eteri more dominant in the long run. But Russian fed's thought process has always been difficult to comprehend.

No please. Russian fed isn’t stupid. Lol there are much easier ways to crack down Eteri’s group. They don’t need much international lobby for that.
It’s overkill (and stupid).

Also they didn’t sacrifice Polina. Her outing at Russian cup wasn’t good either. Maybe they already heard of her ankle issue after Nationals and decided not to push her. Read her interview, she was injured. Maybe Konstantinova was chosen because she was healthy. That’s it.

 

[rlopen]

It wouldn't surprise me. And there's a very recent precedent already - Sacrificing Polina Tsurskaya's medal potential in order to send Stanislava Konstantinova.

I don't think it's an effective plan, certainly. In fact, I think this will only make Eteri more dominant in the long run. But Russian fed's thought process has always been difficult to comprehend.

They also "sacrificed" Gubanova for Konstantinova so I really just think Chebotareva has a lot of political pull in RusFed tbh.

 

[LucyH]

Indeed he isn’t Russian lady, he has lasted for 8 consecutive seasons in the senior circle

Preach! Longevity in the sport is likely a big reason that Evgenia is heading off to TCC

 

[moriel]

Preach! Longevity in the sport is likely a big reason that Evgenia is heading off to TCC

It will not suddenly give Russia a +1 spot for worlds and euros.
Only way for Evgenia to have longevity is to compete for another country.