2018-2019 Season - New rules

[charlotte14]

Now a funny quirk of this new system is, when your jump BV is reduced due to a UR/edge call, the SOV of that element will scale down accordingly (it was not like that in the old system: a 4T< used to have the exact same SOV as that of a 4T). So, take Shoma’s two opening quads:

He fell on the 4Lo, but did not get a UR call for it, so from the old system to the new system, his total score for that element gets reduced by as much as 34%, both because of the BV slash and because a GOE of -5 in the new system, on a fully rotated quad loop, is equal to as much as -5.25 in deduction.

Now on the 4F, he got a UR, and as a result of said funny quirk, his total score for that element goes down by only 10% in the new system. Because a GOE of -5 on a quad flip that was both under-rotated and resulted in a fall, is equal to only a -4.13 deduction in final score.

This is true for all of the jumps, not just quads, so, well, if you are a skater with a chronic case of UR, your TES might actually be affected less compared to everyone else.

From http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/174214240154/hey-alice-hope-your-day-is-going-well-if-its
So now fall and UR get less % deduction than a fall.

 

[Anni234]

Me every time i see this topic pop up

 

[yume]

From http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/174214240154/hey-alice-hope-your-day-is-going-well-if-its
So now fall and UR get less % deduction than a fall.

Must be some ISU's math error again......i hope. Because it can't be logic to think that a fall on an URed jump is better than a fall on a fully rotated jump.

 

[Yatagarasu]

From http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/174214240154/hey-alice-hope-your-day-is-going-well-if-its
So now fall and UR get less % deduction than a fall.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ow59c0pwTPruU/giphy.gif

 

[Li'Kitsu]

From http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/174214240154/hey-alice-hope-your-day-is-going-well-if-its
So now fall and UR get less % deduction than a fall.

Well, that's just the typical ISU dumbness though, isn't it?

Like: 3Lz + 2A3T giving you potentially more points then 3Lz3T + 2A, despite the 2nd being more difficult, because of the GOE coefficient being higher on 3T then 2A. Or a fall being more costly on a quad combo then a 3-3: 4T3Tfall + 3Lz gets less points then 4T + 3Lz3Tfall

That new nonsense there just fits right in with the non-logic we know and don't love.

 

[charlotte14]

Must be some ISU's math error again......i hope. Because it can't be logic to think that a fall on an URed jump is better than a fall on a fully rotated jump.

I don’t know what to think of this... uselessness that ISU keeps showing off throughout many many years.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Pretty much. We should just call these the Nathan Chen rules.

It's kind of pathetic this is what they do to get him to win but .... especially as the impact to the entire sport is so horrid. Like, give the guy the gold medal in advance in 2022 and get USA off our freaking backs that way, but for heaven's sake, fix these idiocies and don't ruin the whole thing.

Holy anti-Americanism, Batman. Would you have appreciated people saying, "Give Yuzu the 2018 gold medal in advance and get Japan off our freaking backs that way"? Is it nice to say, "Give Trusova the 2022 gold medal and get Russia off our backs?"

Other skaters are perfectly welcome to learn different/harder quads, and get them consistent, between now and 2022.

It's not Chen's fault that he's currently able to reliably execute jumps, especially the hardest ones like 4F and 4Z, while others aren't. And the rules don't benefit him that much given that now more points are being given for GOE, which isn't usually his strong suit.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

From http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/174214240154/hey-alice-hope-your-day-is-going-well-if-its
So now fall and UR get less % deduction than a fall.

It didn't make sense in the past that the same GOE scaling was applied to a fully-rotated jump as a jump that was 70% BV due to an e or a <.

e.g. -5 should be 50% value on the jump you landed. A 4A is 12.50, and a 4A is 9.38. So a fall on a quad axel = 6.25 less, and a fall on a 4A< = 4.69 less. It doesn't make sense for a fall on a 4A< to be 6.25 less from 9.38, because the jump that was executed for which 50% should be deducted is a 4A<, not a 4A. Why should a skater be deducted 50% of the value of a 4A when they only executed a 4A<? This was a silly rule in the past - someone who has a 4T< fall gets -4.00 even though what they did was not a 4T... it's like a mini-extra deduction on top of the 30% reduction, and I'm glad the ISU is now delineating the difference between the scaling of a rotated jump and its UR counterpart. I actually think it makes sense, to deduct based on the GOE scaling of the jump that was executed and not deduct using the GOE scaling of the jump that was intended to be executed. Sure, it "helps" skaters with URs moreso than previously, but IMO it should have always been like that. As long as the fall with a UR still gets less points than just a fall, that's fine.

It's pretty ridiculous though that +4 and +5 even exist for < jumps, though. Like, a judge shouldn't be allowed to score a jump above 0 for a UR jump, IMO.

 

[yume]

Like: 3Lz + 2A3T giving you potentially more points then 3Lz3T + 2A, despite the 2nd being more difficult, because of the GOE coefficient being higher on 3T then 2A. Or a fall being more costly on a quad combo then a 3-3: 4T3Tfall + 3Lz gets less points then 4T + 3Lz3Tfall

.

Epic:disapp: So potentially less 3-3s for ladies and less 4-3s for men. We should not be surprised if we see more ladies execute Satoko's 2 previous seasons tech content (3-2-2 + 2A-3T ×2)

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Maybe we could have again a quadless olympic champion. Wouldn't be so surprising.

If it has to happen, it had better be Jason

 

[icybear]

So we will never see Rika amazing 3a and 3a3t in one program. This rule is crap.

 

[yume]

If it has to happen, it had better be Jason

I thought of him precisely.

Someone like Jason Brown, who basically don't have anymore reasons to attempt a quad, who have high PCS, high GOEs, can more often finish on podiums (with more consistency), and maybe even on top with the help of others costly mistakes on hard elements.

 

[Mrs. P]

So this is the USA men rules then? The ISU sure worked hard to develop a system that would have both Nathan and Jason on top. :sarcasm:

 

[Yatagarasu]

So this is the USA men rules then? The ISU sure worked hard to develop a system that would have both Nathan and Jason on top. :sarcasm:

Well it sure does benefit you the most.

You can add in Vincent there who is a serial underrotator and now has perfection of new rules that are going to reward him for it. Yay.

 

[yume]

.

e.g. -5 should be 50% value on the jump you landed. A 4A is 12.50, and a 4A is 9.38. So a fall on a quad axel = 6.25 less, and a fall on a 4A< = 4.69 less. It doesn't make sense for a fall on a 4A< to be 6.25 less from 9.38, because the jump that was executed for which 50% should be deducted is a 4A<, not a 4A. Why should a skater be deducted 50% of the value of a 4A when they only executed a 4A<? This was a silly rule in the past - someone who has a 4T< fall gets -4.00 even though what they did was not a 4T... it's like a mini-extra deduction on top of the 30% reduction, and I'm glad the ISU is now delineating the difference between the scaling of a rotated jump and its UR counterpart. I actually think it makes sense, to deduct based on the GOE scaling of the jump that was executed and not deduct using the GOE scaling of the jump that was intended to be executed.

Skaters who UR and fall should be punished for two mistakes and not one. Not jumping the intended jump is a mistake.
A deduction on 4T< base rather than 4T base is like saying that the skater who URed and fell did just one error like the skater who fell on a fully rotated quad. While in reality he did two mistakes, so he shoud lose more points than the one who did one mistake.

 

[Mamamiia]

Pretty much. We should just call these the Nathan Chen rules.

It's kind of pathetic this is what they do to get him to win but .... especially as the impact to the entire sport is so horrid. Like, give the guy the gold medal in advance in 2022 and get USA off our freaking backs that way, but for heaven's sake, fix these idiocies and don't ruin the whole thing.

I still think the Russian ladies will be fine though. It'll be more tight but they should be able to work this.

That's funny, Nathan has been winning almost the whole season under current rules yet he is the one that needs ISU to come up with new rules? For what?

 

[chopinskate]

That may have been a fan proposal but was not in the actual ISU proposals.

What do you mean by this? The GOE proposals say that "very good height and distance", "effortless throughout", and "good take off and landing" must be checked to go beyond +3 GOE.

Also, could you elaborate on what "good body position" means? Does it include arm variations, or does it just mean good air position (posture, alignment, tightness)?

 

[DaNiCG]

That's funny, Nathan has been winning almost the whole season under current rules yet he is the one that needs ISU to come up with new rules? For what?

topic: well, given the fact that the majority of skaters were injured this season, including top skaters, so, Nathan won, but this wasn't a normal season.


So, the +4/+5GOE is going to be a bonus?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Well it sure does benefit you the most.

You can add in Vincent there who is a serial underrotator and now has perfection of new rules that are going to reward him for it. Yay.

Ah don't worry, Boyang will probably continue to get a good amount of Vincents calls anyway (like at Finlandia & WC!), so Vincent will only benefit half as much from that rule as he would with sane scoring

And sorry if some American fans feel offended, but honestly, the point that the bigger federations are pulling the strings is as old as FS itself, and you basically need to look no further then the scoring of American ladies these last years to know how much pull the US fed has

(PS: that said, I'd personally be perfectly happy with someone like Jason winning big medals, even the OGM if he skates his absolute best. He's missing the quads, but IMO minus Yuzu, he's the best at everything else in the world right now. So )

 

[Mrs. P]

Well it sure does benefit you the most.

You can add in Vincent there who is a serial underrotator and now has perfection of new rules that are going to reward him for it. Yay.

Benefits me? I’m just wondering how a system was custom made to benefit three very different skaters.

For the record I’m not a strict US cheerleader. Did people miss the fact that I’m a Boyang fan?