Alina Zagitova | Page 244 | Golden Skate

Alina Zagitova

Dmitryfromsiberia said:
Although I cheer for the Russian ladies skaters, but I think that jumping should not be all in the second half. I think it is reasonable to limit the number of jumps in the second part.
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My main problem with the proposal is that it targets only Alina, no one else does it in Seniors so it’s not an epidemic.

They shouldn’t target rule changes to something done by only one person. They have PCS and can give lower PCS scores as a way to “reprimand” a program they feel is unbalanced.

I liked Alina’s program for the sheer demonstration of athletic skill that it was, it was a masterclass in proficiency and endurance. Because the jumps were timed in sync with the music it didn’t bother me on the artistic side. Lots of people had different opinions of course, I believe the PCS is the best tool for the judges to settle this.
 
lusk8 said:
My main problem with the proposal is that it targets only Alina, no one else does it in Seniors so it’s not an epidemic.

They shouldn’t target rule changes to something done by only one person. They have PCS and can give lower PCS scores as a way to “reprimand” a program they feel is unbalanced.

I liked Alina’s program for the sheer demonstration of athletic skill that it was, it was a masterclass in proficiency and endurance. Because the jumps were timed in sync with the music it didn’t bother me on the artistic side. Lots of people had different opinions of course, I believe the PCS is the best tool for the judges to settle this.
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I think, if changes in the number of jumps will not be accepted, many Russian young ladies skaters at the exit of the senior will jump all the jumps in the second part.They are strong.
 
Dmitryfromsiberia said:
I think, if changes in the number of jumps will not be accepted, many Russian young ladies skaters at the exit of the senior will jump all the jumps in the second part.They are strong.
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They are probably the only ones poised to do it, Alina did this for a whole senior season and no one joined in the bandwagon.

I think this rule will pass regardless. Eteri even mentioned expecting it to do so.

On seniors we will see a different program layout for Alina, the rest of the Senior Ladies will probably continue what they already do. We have some new additions from Juniors moving to Seniors this season, let’s see how they’ll go.
 
lusk8 said:
Not yet but the also have a proposal to vote at the ISU Congress, if it passes it will be implemented.

This is the proposal: URGENT PROPOSAL 5. NETHERLANDS (pg. 2): Starting in the 2020-21 season, for senior ISU Championships and the Winter Olympics, raise the minimum age requirement of participants from 15 to 17 years old prior to the July 1st preceding the events. Reasons: 1) Show mature skaters with well-balanced programs at the ISU Championships and Worlds. 2) Improve image of the sport by encouraging skaters to compete for a longer period of time. 3) Discourage older senior skaters from leaving the sport because they feel they cannot compete with younger skaters with difficult elements. 4) Figure skating currently has the youngest senior age limit of all winter sports. 5) Bring figure skating’s age requirements in line with comparable sports such as gymnastics, which has a senior age limit of 16 for women and 18 for men.
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I dont like it. So under this Sasha will be a junior for 5 years. Lol! Why compare figure skating to other sports? If Russian girls werent doing so great this would not be an issue.
 
dante said:
Isn't becoming the champion the first priority for Alina as well? And for all Eteri's girls who became champions?



Top right - Sergey Voronov.
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Of course being champion is the goal. But Eteri and all coaches are being strategic for their own chances to win. It’s not as important for her to make each skater the best they can possibly be, it’s her goal to ensure her own students are champions. Let me put it this way: what if Alina had been Buianova’s student? Would Alina’s success, particularly at the beginning of her debut season, have influenced Eteri’s decisions regarding Zhenya’s program? I have to imagine that she would want her skater to have the best shot at winning and would have changed her program to give Zhenya a competitive edge to ensure she had the best chance to win the olympics.

But Eteri didn’t do this because Alina was her own student. She didn’t need to push Zhenya in the same way she would have if the competitive threat had been from someone outside of her team. So there is no need to design and push riskier programs for her top skaters because Eteri still wins when her younger students surpass the older ones. That means that training and design of programs are not necessarily meant to give an individual the best chance at being the best she can be but rather give the coach the greatest chance of overall success. In that sense, she isn’t motivated to “push” new and riskier programs for Alina. Which she likely would if the junior threat existed outside her own program. If all the junior girls decided to leave for another coach you have to imagine she’d be training Alina for quads or at least attempting to train for them.
 
Sugar Coated said:
Of course being champion is the goal. But Eteri and all coaches are being strategic for their own chances to win. It’s not as important for her to make each skater the best they can possibly be, it’s her goal to ensure her own students are champions. Let me put it this way: what if Alina had been Buianova’s student? Would Alina’s success, particularly at the beginning of her debut season, have influenced Eteri’s decisions regarding Zhenya’s program? I have to imagine that she would want her skater to have the best shot at winning and would have changed her program to give Zhenya a competitive edge to ensure she had the best chance to win the olympics.

But Eteri didn’t do this because Alina was her own student. She didn’t need to push Zhenya in the same way she would have if the competitive threat had been from someone outside of her team. So there is no need to design and push riskier programs for her top skaters because Eteri still wins when her younger students surpass the older ones. That means that training and design of programs are not necessarily meant to give an individual the best chance at being the best she can be but rather give the coach the greatest chance of overall success. In that sense, she isn’t motivated to “push” new and riskier programs for Alina. Which she likely would if the junior threat existed outside her own program. If all the junior girls decided to leave for another coach you have to imagine she’d be training Alina for quads or at least attempting to train for them.
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You read my mind. I love Zhenya and Alina. But the system will work as long as there is a result.
 
Sugar Coated said:
Let me put it this way: what if Alina had been Buianova’s student? Would Alina’s success, particularly at the beginning of her debut season, have influenced Eteri’s decisions regarding Zhenya’s program?
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Yes. Both coaches would have had to go for a riskier content, thus increasing the chance of injury and failing to get to the top 2 for both Alina and Zhenya, unless the RusFed orders both coaches to play as a team. But other things being equal, the chance for Zhenya to beat Alina regardless of their overall position would be about the same.

Once several athletes unite under the command of an authoritarian coach, it ceases to be a zero-sum game, to the benefit of everyone in the team.
 
dante said:
Yes. Both coaches would have had to go for a riskier content, thus increasing the chance of injury and failing to get to the top 2 for both Alina and Zhenya, unless the RusFed orders both coaches to play as a team. But other things being equal, the chance for Zhenya to beat Alina regardless of their overall position would be about the same.

Once several athletes unite under the command of an authoritarian coach, it ceases to be a zero-sum game, to the benefit of everyone in the team.
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I agree with your opinion.
 
lusk8 said:
Masaru is making the rounds on Japanese Media:

https://instagram.com/p/BjLY5Kcn1C7/

https://instagram.com/p/BjJkai3AyTG/

Full TV Star mode, looking at the first set of pictures Masaru is biting the camera’s built in microphone. I’d say the Pooh is trembling at that site.
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Yeah - "Pooh" is going to need to be stored in a very safe place. Nothing is safe from a teething puppy :love:

Look at the cameraman smiling as Masaru does her thing with the microphone. What an adorable dog.
 
dante said:
Yes. Both coaches would have had to go for a riskier content, thus increasing the chance of injury and failing to get to the top 2 for both Alina and Zhenya, unless the RusFed orders both coaches to play as a team. But other things being equal, the chance for Zhenya to beat Alina regardless of their overall position would be about the same.

Once several athletes unite under the command of an authoritarian coach, it ceases to be a zero-sum game, to the benefit of everyone in the team.
Click to expand...
I’m not that up to date on game theory, but I’m not understanding how uniting causes this to be a non-zero-sum game. For the individual countries and the coach, this is in their best interest. But ask Zhenya how she feels about it. I’m betting she doesn’t view her getting silver and Alina getting gold as “success,” but according to your logic they both benefited from their “team” earning first and second. Yes, they want their country to succeed - and they got gold and silver medalists - but at the end of the day it’s an individual sport (except for the team event obviously). Polina doesn’t get credit for having been part of Eteti’s Olympic winning “team.” Eteri gets the glory and a share of the prize money regardless which girl wins, as long as it’s one of hers. Strategically she benefits if some of her top skaters do less challenging programs to play it safe and allow others to take risks. But that’s a tough pill to swallow to know that if you and your teammate both skate clean, your teammate will win. Personal victory is out of your control.

And what if they were not from the same country? That would have been the better analogy. Both girls would have been in an arms race for technical content, perhaps risking injury for both, but also pushing their abilities for victory now and in the future. My point was that coaching decisions and strategy are impacted by sharing a coach (and being from the same country). And this impacts an individual’s ability to medal and potentially progress to harder content. In that sense, it’s not truly each individual competing against every other skater in the world. Some of the decision making is meant to maximize a country or coach’s success over an individual’s personal success. Which they have every right to do, but it’s not necessarily “fair” to the individual skater who has dedicated her life to earning gold. And it’s why I would like to see Alina trying to train in a way that will make her competitive in the future.
 
lesnar001 said:
One half of the Royal Couple is on the move!

Safe travels Masaru. I hope you are traveling First Class.

https://twitter.com/yurixanex/status/999896314962890752
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Checked pets will be held in the bulk cargo room.

https://www.jal.co.jp/en/inter/support/pet/

Aeroflot pet rules :
Only animals whose weight together with the cage/skipper does not exceed 8 kg may be carried in the aircraft cabin.

Flight JAL421 from Narita , Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, arrive to Moscow at 15.00 (Moscow time)
 
lusk8 said:
Not yet but the also have a proposal to vote at the ISU Congress, if it passes it will be implemented.

This is the proposal: URGENT PROPOSAL 5. NETHERLANDS (pg. 2): Starting in the 2020-21 season, for senior ISU Championships and the Winter Olympics, raise the minimum age requirement of participants from 15 to 17 years old prior to the July 1st preceding the events. Reasons: 1) Show mature skaters with well-balanced programs at the ISU Championships and Worlds. 2) Improve image of the sport by encouraging skaters to compete for a longer period of time. 3) Discourage older senior skaters from leaving the sport because they feel they cannot compete with younger skaters with difficult elements. 4) Figure skating currently has the youngest senior age limit of all winter sports. 5) Bring figure skating’s age requirements in line with comparable sports such as gymnastics, which has a senior age limit of 16 for women and 18 for men.
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RusFed should counterattack with proposal to decrease age requirement from 15 to 14 or 13. I think team "healthy_Zhenya+Alina+Sasha" could sweep podium at Worlds2018 https://youtu.be/qeMFqkcPYcg?t=6
 
Scott512 said:
I dont like it. So under this Sasha will be a junior for 5 years. Lol! Why compare figure skating to other sports? If Russian girls werent doing so great this would not be an issue.
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You can join us in the Should minimum age for seniors be raised? thread. As would Brian say: We should be struggling together :)
 
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