Yuna Kim | Page 301 | Golden Skate

Yuna Kim

I recently sent my Aunt a box of Maxim Instant Coffee.......with Yuna's picture on the box! Inquiry: Does anyone know of any other products that have her on the box/container? Like this one? http://oi66.tinypic.com/2e5tzxd.jpg

I'm not sure exactly what happened but I swear I made a reply to you hours ago :scratch2:

But the answer is no, AFAIK. Maxim is the only "food" product she's currently endorsing. (And for some reason, I haven't seen that particular box in the Korean market I frequent. It's always the plane yellow box :noshake:)
 
While I was reviewing the new SOV and GOE bullets, and practicing assigning them, I decided to go back and score some well-known skates from the past, including Yuna’s legendary performance from 2013 Worlds, and thought I’d share those scores here. It’s interesting to compare them to Chopinskate’s scores from a while back, under the old system.

I decided to tidy up my scoring notes into a proper-write up, which lengthened the post quite a bit, so I’ll do the SP and FS as two posts.

TOTAL SCORE: 220.38 (72.29 + 147.59) (!!! That's the highest score I've ever given for a re-score.)


SHORT PROGRAM 72.79

TECHNICAL ELEMENTS SCORE: 39.19
3Lz+3T (GOE +5) 13.05
Very good height and distance (+3T is borderline; I find myself being more lenient with attached jumps in combination)
Very good takeoff and landing (not perfect, but very good; the nice, clean pick action helps)
Effortless throughout
• Very good body position throughout (she has a nice secure air position, and keeps good posture between the two jumps and after the landing, with decent flow out of the +3T)
• Matched to the music (nice build up with the music for the entry and 3Lz and then the +3T right on the music)

3F! (GOE +2) 6.36
Very good height and distance
• Effortless throughout

• Steps before the jump
• Matched to the music
“!” call deduction

FCSp3 (GOE -2) 2.24
• Centered throughout (although it’s not very tightly centered at all times)
Awkward/unaesthetic positions deduction (I mean... that awful catch-foot & change of position into it)
Slow or reduction of speed deduction (especially changing to the catch-foot)
Incorrect take-off or landing in a flying spin deduction (she isn’t really in position properly on the landing nor does she get into it well - her leg drops too much low - and she struggles to bring it under control)

2A GOE (GOE +4) 4.95
Very good height and distance
• Very good takeoff and landing
• Effortless throughout

• Steps before jump/creative entry

LSp3 (GOE +4; really surprising myself here) 3.36
Good controlled, clear positions (a much better catch-foot this time)
Good speed (not phenomenal, but good enough and she maintains it throughout)
Effortless throughout
• Centered throughout

StSq4 (+2; indecision over bullets) 4.68
Deep edges, clean steps and turns (mostly, but not completely)
Effortless throughout (especially in the beginning; but a few things are awkward near the end and you can kinda tell she focused on them, while others remained strong and easy-looking)
• Good acceleration or deceleration

CCoSp4 (GOE +3) 4.55
Good speed (again, not phenomenal, but good and maintained throughout)
Good controlled, clear positions (especially the sit positions I thought were very well done)
• Well-centered throughout on both feet



PROGRAM COMPONENTS SCORE: 33.60
SKATING SKILLS 8.50
• Generally strong use of deep edges with clean steps and turns at various points, but lots of crossovers and some scratchiness in places
• Balanced, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement: everything is nice and deliberate in some places, but she’s actually rather sloppy in others
• Displays very good flow and strong glide
• Able to gain power and speed quite easily and maintain it; she can decelerate easily as well, and change between skating speeds quickly without much effort
• Rather good use of multidirectional skating
• Use of one-foot skating, especially in moments with musical accents; she’s helped by doing some transitional moves on either foot, but hurt by a lot of two-foot crossovers and the like)

TRANSITIONS 8.25
• Good but not great continuity of movements between elements, again interrupting with crosscuts is an issue
• Not a bad variety of transitions but not great, either, and she doesn’t do a ton of them
• Difficulty is bouyed by her transitions being decently intricate, and transitions into and/or out of jumps and very strong running edges help her out here as well
• For the most part, her transitions are of very high quality

PERFORMANCE 8.50
• She’s inconsistent with her involvement and projection; it’s really quite good in a few places but she’s heavily focused on executing the program in many places throughout that shows and is detrimental
• While carriage and clarity of movement is generally strong, she’s sloppier here than I’m used to seeing here; perhaps due to being rusty skating in big events
• Variety and contrast of movements and energy: here she was quite strong, but the lack of commitment on the whole muted some of the differences
• Individuality and personality: this is a rather unique idea for a program with unusual music, and she really does do a nice job of making it her own, but you can tell at some spots she’s not connecting and it becomes rather generic even as she shines in others

COMPOSITION 8.25
• There’s an obvious concept here, and the movements are generally designed in a way to sell the mood and communicate the concept, but some parts are rather perfunctory and don’t seem to have been added with the larger idea of the program in mind
• Strong ice coverage
• Rather good use of multidimensional movements
• Phrase and form is for the most part strong, but there are sections of the choreography which are lacking in connection to the music
• Again, it’s really an interesting and original idea for a program, and it’s interesting to see how rather normal moves are arranged and executed to display it

INTERPRETATION 8.50
• Some instances of well timed elements and transitional movements
• The feeling of the music is not consistently portrayed; some sections of the choreography have little to do with the music or overall theme and the interpretation reflects this
• Good use of finesse to reflects the nuances, helped by her innate musicality on display, but again this is rather lacking compared to her usual standard
 
And now the FS.


FREE SKATING 147.59

TECHNICAL ELEMENTS SCORE 75.59
3Lz+3T (GOE +4) 12.46
Very good height and distance
• Very good takeoff and landing
• Effortless throughout

• Very good body position throughout (slightly stronger than the SP, I thought)

3F (GOE +3) 6.89
Very good height and distance
• Good takeoff and landing
• Effortless throughout


FCCoSp4 (GOE +2) 4.20
Good controlled, clear positions
• Centered throughout

3S (GOE +2) 5.16
Good takeoff and landing
• Effortless throughout


StSq4 (GOE +5) 5.85
Deep edges, clean steps and turns
• Element matches the music
(well, about as much as is possible under IJS)
Effortless throughout with good energy, flow and execution
• Excellent commitment and control of whole body
• Good acceleration and deceleration

3Lz (GOE +4)
Very good height and distance
• Good takeoff and landing
(she leans a little, but nice flow and control into spread eagle)
• Effortless throughout

• Matched to the music (the whole pass is well placed in general, and the jump itself is placed over a little swell)

2A+2T+2Lo (GOE +5) 8.58
Very good height and distance
• Effortless throughout
• Good takeoff and landing
(strong posture kept up, good check, and well-controlled, the only issue is a lack of strong flow out of the loop)
• Steps before jump/creative entrance
• Very good body position throughout (a nice, straight axis and she keeps it up through all three jumps and the landing)
• Phenomenally well-timed to the music

3S+2T (GOE +2) 7.02
Effortless throughout
• Well-timed to the music

LSp3 (GOE +5; seriously I never think of her as having phenomenal laybacks, but apparently) 3.60
Good speed throughout
• Good controlled, clear positions
• Effortless throughout

• Centered throughout
• Matched to the music

ChSq (GOE +1) 3.50
• Good ice coverage
• Excellent commitment and control of the whole body
Does not enhance the music deduction

2A (GOE +5) 5.28
Very good height and distance
• Good takeoff and landing
• Effortless throughout

• Steps before jump/creative entrance
• Matched to the music

CCoSp4 (GOE +2) 4.20
Good speed throughout spin
• Matched to the music


PROGRAM COMPONENTS SCORE 72.00
SKATING SKILLS 9.00
• She used a variety of steps and turns throughout, all done very well, with nice deep edges, but only a few scratchy areas where things could be done a little more cleanly.
• Very precise and deliberate movement when she needs it to be, otherwise extremely well-controlled movement when she needs it to have more abandon
• Excellent flow and fairly strong glide at times
• Excellent ability to effortlessly vary her speed, and to gain power and accelerate and decelerate very quickly
• Good use of multidirectional and one-foot skating throughout, though it remains her weak point.

TRANSITIONS 8.50
• Strong continuity of movements between the elements, and the elements are mostly woven together well with transitions into and/or out of them
• A nice variety of transitions and a fair amount of them throughout
• Includes difficult and intricate transitions, particularly out of some of her jumping passes such as the spread eagle out of the 3Lz
• Transitions are done with very high quality throughout, except for a very few weaker moves towards the end.

PERFORMANCE 10.00
• Outstanding involvement with the program and projection the audience
• Very strong carriage and strong clarity of movement
• A good variety of movements and extremely good ability to effectively contrast the performance’s energy through different sections
• Great display of personality; it’s an immediately “Yuna-esque” program with a lot of abandon to the music and determination

COMPOSITION 8.50
• Clear mood that is very well conveyed through the choreography and performance.
• Very strong ice coverage
• Excellently multidimensional design of movements; she makes varied and effective use of space for a much more aesthetically interesting program than you often see.
• The individual sections are arranged quite well to the music, as are individual elements. Unfortunately, however, I thought the glaring weakness of the whole program was the Choreographic Sequence, which has fades in and out of matching the music well or being completely unrelated to it.
• While extremely strongly put together and performed, it’s not very original, and in fact the individual components of the program are really pretty generic and rely on her strong performance ability.

INTERPRETATION 9.00
• Individual elements and many transitional movements are timed extremely well to the music.
• Except for the choreographic sequence, the movements are all well-placed and convey the character of the music very well.
• Captures much of the nuances and details of the music through her timing and through nice flourishes with her execution of the choreography.
 
First off, thanks cohen-esque for posting a comprehensive analysis of Yuna's SP and LP at 2013 Worlds. As someone who holds her Les Miserables program as her most complete program, any form of analysis for this is a welcome for me. I really couldn't add anything more regarding your technical score since my knowledge is really not that sophisticated when it comes to these things (though I want to know which video you used to review this? I had the no-commentary one but the angles are not really good so it would be nice to know which one you used.)

I still have comment though :biggrin:

Her SP:

FCSp3 (GOE -2) 2.24
• Centered throughout (although it’s not very tightly centered at all times)
• Awkward/unaesthetic positions deduction (I mean... that awful catch-foot & change of position into it)
• Slow or reduction of speed deduction (especially changing to the catch-foot)
• Incorrect take-off or landing in a flying spin deduction (she isn’t really in position properly on the landing nor does she get into it well - her leg drops too much low - and she struggles to bring it under control)

Agreed. She had a bad landing on her flying spin that she wasn't able to change edges I believe. Again, I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to this so it would be nice to point out exactly what mistake she made there. :)

StSq4 (+2; indecision over bullets) 4.68
Deep edges, clean steps and turns (mostly, but not completely)
Effortless throughout (especially in the beginning; but a few things are awkward near the end and you can kinda tell she focused on them, while others remained strong and easy-looking)
• Good acceleration or deceleration

I thought her StSq under the new scoring system would at least give her +3 since I'm on the side who thinks that her turns and steps, for the most part, matches the music. She has a natural flow throughout those steps and turns that didn't really leave the tempo of the music (unskateable as it was) and had at least made the rhythm of the music readable, even if she really didn't enhance it. This may not be her best showing of her musicality (which is still great relatively to her competitors), but I think it was still highly stylized to level with the music, which she performed well.

LSp3 (GOE +4; really surprising myself here) 3.36
• Good controlled, clear positions (a much better catch-foot this time)
• Good speed (not phenomenal, but good enough and she maintains it throughout)
• Effortless throughout
• Centered throughout

Ha! As someone who's very critical of Yuna's layback spins and most of her spins post-Vancouver (she doesn't get the much arch, and not enough speed), this is really surprising indeed. But I guess since the communication did say good, instead of let say very good or great, it's not really controversial for her to get those +.


PROGRAM COMPONENTS SCORE: 33.60
SKATING SKILLS 8.50
• Generally strong use of deep edges with clean steps and turns at various points, but lots of crossovers and some scratchiness in places
• Balanced, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement: everything is nice and deliberate in some places, but she’s actually rather sloppy in others
• Displays very good flow and strong glide
• Able to gain power and speed quite easily and maintain it; she can decelerate easily as well, and change between skating speeds quickly without much effort
• Rather good use of multidirectional skating
• Use of one-foot skating, especially in moments with musical accents; she’s helped by doing some transitional moves on either foot, but hurt by a lot of two-foot crossovers and the like)

This is pretty much my main point whenever someone criticizes Yuna's skating skills. She does relatively more crossovers and more two-foot skating yes (although her crossovers are of high quality and doesn't really detract anything from the entire flow of the program), but her speed is not just because she is stroking more. If the program allows her to show her skating skills, she actually exhibits effortless ability to gain and change speed even when she starts at rest, more so as she maintains a deep lean throughout.

On the other hand, I really didn't catch up those sloppy turns (aside from some of her jumps and spins) that you mentioned though it's probably because I'm so distracted with her upper body.

Overall, I'm actually torn when it comes to Kiss of the Vampire. For the most part, I think it's her musicality that saved this program, even though her performance of it is something I am hesitant to call inconsistent because I thought she projected well enough all throughout. Maybe not enough to connect to the audience (I think I also gave her relatively low scores in PE) but enough for me to say that she performed with a level of abandon.

I'm astonishingly surprised though that this broke the 70-mark (though I shouldn't be retrospectively). Even though I personally like this program, I thought this is not a 70 worthy program even with the new scoring system. Those GOEs on her jumps really helped on this case, no?

As a side-note: If we strictly follow the ISU guidelines and fair in our assessment, it's really not that difficult to differentiate between what is good, what is great, and what is excellent. So yes, CoP is really not an awful scoring system as others think it is.
 
Hmmm, I'm not sure I'd give her 3F a (!) in her SP. I like this analysis. Will comment more later. Thanks, cohen-esque!



My previous scores: 9.25, 8.5, 10, 8.75, 9.25 https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?29910-Yu-Na-Kim&p=2070242&viewfull=1#post2070242

I see you deducted exactly the quarter marks on SS, CO, IN, where I later thought my hand slipped a little, via discussion with Izabela. :laugh: 72.00 is probably where the PCS should be :agree: And, frankly, practically no one has come close to approaching it since.

PROGRAM COMPONENTS SCORE 72.00
SKATING SKILLS 9.00
• She used a variety of steps and turns throughout, all done very well, with nice deep edges, but only a few scratchy areas where things could be done a little more cleanly.
• Very precise and deliberate movement when she needs it to be, otherwise extremely well-controlled movement when she needs it to have more abandon
• Excellent flow and fairly strong glide at times
• Excellent ability to effortlessly vary her speed, and to gain power and accelerate and decelerate very quickly
• Good use of multidirectional and one-foot skating throughout, though it remains her weak point.

I did notice a few scratchy areas when she was transitioning into her spiral, for instance, but this was one of her best performances with her SS. I think she got better and better when it comes to skating skills, especially when it came to Adios Nonino, which was her best showcase. One-foot skating is probably the least important criteria to me, but yes, her multidirectional ability could have been better. But I'd still rather take movement that goes with the music over "oh! here's a beat I can do a back-counter to!" nonsense we see today, as a supposed showcase of skating skills.

TRANSITIONS 8.50
• Strong continuity of movements between the elements, and the elements are mostly woven together well with transitions into and/or out of them
• A nice variety of transitions and a fair amount of them throughout
• Includes difficult and intricate transitions, particularly out of some of her jumping passes such as the spread eagle out of the 3Lz
• Transitions are done with very high quality throughout, except for a very few weaker moves towards the end.

8.50 is perfect. What she does she does with nearly perfect quality. Her edges out of her jumps are beyond reproach. Yes, she does build up to her jumps, but that's part of choreography! Deduct points in transitions, add points elsewhere if it works. Not a concept many seem to grasp, however. Just as running edges aren't transitions anymore, apparently. They're harder than the empty spirals and "hydroblades" and ina bauers and turning-threes and whatever the heck else we see into jumps, too.

PERFORMANCE 10.00
• Outstanding involvement with the program and projection the audience
• Very strong carriage and strong clarity of movement
• A good variety of movements and extremely good ability to effectively contrast the performance’s energy through different sections
• Great display of personality; it’s an immediately “Yuna-esque” program with a lot of abandon to the music and determination

I have nothing to add. Perfect score deserved.

COMPOSITION 8.50
• Clear mood that is very well conveyed through the choreography and performance.
• Very strong ice coverage
• Excellently multidimensional design of movements; she makes varied and effective use of space for a much more aesthetically interesting program than you often see.
• The individual sections are arranged quite well to the music, as are individual elements. Unfortunately, however, I thought the glaring weakness of the whole program was the Choreographic Sequence, which has fades in and out of matching the music well or being completely unrelated to it.
• While extremely strongly put together and performed, it’s not very original, and in fact the individual components of the program are really pretty generic and rely on her strong performance ability.

INTERPRETATION 9.00
• Individual elements and many transitional movements are timed extremely well to the music.
• Except for the choreographic sequence, the movements are all well-placed and convey the character of the music very well.
• Captures much of the nuances and details of the music through her timing and through nice flourishes with her execution of the choreography.

Yes, the ChSq is what makes me want to revise my score, as does the choreography of the layback. I think the concept is well conveyed overall. It's a simple piece of choreography, but there are musical nuances and interpretive nuances that were performed perfectly, and the simplicity is what aided her freedom with the performance. It's a balancing act -- let them skate.



I also have scores on Mao's Nocturne W14, and Yuzuru's R&J W12, which I could share in their FFs if you're interested/have scored them (and I invite Izabela and anyone else to engage, too).
 
Another quick note, looking at your scores, it does feel like the scoring system is designed like the 4.0 Grading System. Maybe it's a fruitless endeavour and a pretty cardinal one to always try to believe that a skater's particular execution of jump shouldn't be give +3 or +4 (even when they met the bullet points) because someone out there, either in the current field or in the past, executed it better and was given the same GOE for it. It can be a frustrating one (just like when me and my "rival" were given the same honours even though I know I'm better!), but it's more neat this way.

And now for her LP:

FCCoSp4 (GOE +2) 4.20
Good controlled, clear positions
• Centered throughout

I wanted to give her another +1 for this spin for "element matches the music" but then again it has more to do with how timely she exited the spin, more than the spin matching the music itself.

StSq4 (GOE +5) 5.85
Deep edges, clean steps and turns
• Element matches the music
(well, about as much as is possible under IJS)
Effortless throughout with good energy, flow and execution
• Excellent commitment and control of whole body
• Good acceleration and deceleration

I feel kind of vindicated for this because, for me, her step sequence in Les Miserables is the highlight of the program and really her most underappreciated step sequence. She showed excellent clarity of upper body movement, great edge work and precision of movements on her footwork, and the entirety of it is beautifully choreographed to bring out the nuances of the music as much as she could and is allowed to. I always find Yuna's step sequences to be highly stylized with the music even when they are not the most technically difficult one, but this is probably one of the few StSq I've seen where the illusion spin didn't really detract anything from the "natural flow" of her movement.

LSp3 (GOE +5; seriously I never think of her as having phenomenal laybacks, but apparently) 3.60
• Good speed throughout
• Good controlled, clear positions
• Effortless throughout
• Centered throughout
• Matched to the music

And this is where the frustration comes in. I'm not sure I'll accept the +5GOE score on her layback spin that easily. :laugh:

Regarding the ChSq of Les Miserables, I think the most glaring ones (in terms of how underwhelming it is), are first, the illusion spin, and those crossovers going into her 2A. They should have put more turns/steps in there, because it felt like she left the music abruptly. Even her last spin should be choreographed differently.
 
I would probably not give her laybacks "Good controlled, clear positions" (her haircutter is frustrating, and her arabesque (EDIT: Nope, attitude/classic) isn't the best), and "Matched to the music" is probably only superficial in these two laybacks. I know that's where we are with the CoP, but yeah.

I feel kind of vindicated for this because, for me, her step sequence in Les Miserables is the highlight of the program and really her most underappreciated step sequence. She showed excellent clarity of upper body movement, great edge work and precision of movements on her footwork, and the entirety of it is beautifully choreographed to bring out the nuances of the music as much as she could and is allowed to. I always find Yuna's step sequences to be highly stylized with the music even when they are not the most technically difficult one, but this is probably one of the few StSq I've seen where the illusion spin didn't really detract anything from the "natural flow" of her movement.

That StSq is kind of great. I see I gave it just +1.5, but in reality it should probably be higher. Very grand movement, that flows seamlessly into simple, effective music interpretation in the second "half".
 
I want to know which video you used to review this? I had the no-commentary one but the angles are not really good so it would be nice to know which one you used.
I used B. Eurosport with Korean subs for the SP. For the FS I used the no-commentary version (with the too-warm colors).

But I cheated a little bit: I was so torn on the SP StSq, and the video quality wasn’t the greatest, so I think I used the CBC video (?) to rewatch it in higher definition.

She had a bad landing on her flying spin that she wasn't able to change edges I believe. Again, I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to this so it would be nice to point out exactly what mistake she made there. :)
I’m honestly not sure with the FCSp. It’s weird. Unfortunately I can’t find 12-13 but I think they’re the same spin Level rules as 2013-14, so with that in mind, I *think* that she was going for the following level features (in order she performed them):

1. Backwards entry (since replaced by “difficult entry”)
2. Difficult variation (the Yuna camel position)
3. Difficult variation (catch-foot)
4. Clear change of edge (also during the catch-foot)

You can see she enters on a back edge, gets into the Yuna camel (which I love, btw) and then goes into the catch-foot. She loses control a bit, and never quite gets it back although the spin remains centered. In the middle of the catch-foot you notice she changes from an outside to inside edge… but she doesn’t do it well, and the edge sort of wobbles on the flat and even kind back to a back edge at one point, so I believe she lost credit there. However, this was at the end of the spin, so not directly related to the poor flying entry except inasmuch as it threw her off generally. I think it's more related to the poor catch-foot.

She got FCSp4 in Sochi in the short program, where she did the change of edge cleanly.

I thought her StSq under the new scoring system would at least give her +3 since I'm on the side who thinks that her turns and steps, for the most part, matches the music. She has a natural flow throughout those steps and turns that didn't really leave the tempo of the music (unskateable as it was) and had at least made the rhythm of the music readable, even if she really didn't enhance it. This may not be her best showing of her musicality (which is still great relatively to her competitors), but I think it was still highly stylized to level with the music, which she performed well.
Well, some of it did. But I think she does most of the balance-challenging moves (which she needed for the Level 4) at inappropriate times. There are some full-body moves in a more low-key section of music which is immediately followed by a more dramatic music through which she just does a set of nice, gliding steps and turns with upright posture on one foot. Why weren’t those sections switched? We’re talking instances of like one second, or singular moves or steps, but I just felt the whole timing of the sequence was a little bit off… it was generally arranged to the music, but there were such obvious instances that were just *off* and *wrong* to me in this regard that I didn’t feel like I could award the GOE bullet.

Ha! As someone who's very critical of Yuna's layback spins and most of her spins post-Vancouver (she doesn't get the much arch, and not enough speed), this is really surprising indeed. But I guess since the communication did say good, instead of let say very good or great, it's not really controversial for her to get those +.
And this is where the frustration comes in. I'm not sure I'll accept the +5GOE score on her layback spin that easily. :laugh:
I’ve said somewhere else that I thought the ISU made it too easy to get +GOE on spins and to a lesser extent, steps, and this reinforced my view. (Not that it applies to Yuna… as I think I gave all but maybe one of her spins credit for “maintain a centered spin”… but it especially bothers me that that isn’t a core GOE bullet.)

I would probably not give her laybacks "Good controlled, clear positions" (her haircutter is frustrating, and her arabesque isn't the best), and "Matched to the music" is probably only superficial in these two laybacks. I know that's where we are with the CoP, but yeah.
Well, I didn’t give her “matched to the music” for the SP. For the FS it is a little bit superficial, but in regards of element placement timed quite well on the whole – I don’t really think there was any better place to put the spin in that program, and it’s fairly effective.

I don’t mind her haircutter – it doesn’t get the sort of hyper-extension you see on something like a pearl spin, sure, but she transitions into the position quickly, maintains her speed, and doesn’t make it look effortful at all. The positions in both layback spins were certainly well-controlled, at the very least.

She doesn’t do an arabesque in either Layback; that’s a Camel position, and I didn’t give her credit for good positions in her Flying Camel spin. I do very much like her bent leg layover (the “Yuna camel”) position, which also counts for a Level feature.

I did hesitate a little, though, over whether her positions were enough to qualify as "good." They're definitely not bad, except for the catch-foot camel.

On the other hand, I really didn't catch up those sloppy turns (aside from some of her jumps and spins) that you mentioned though it's probably because I'm so distracted with her upper body.
It’s not a chronic problem. But I thought there were just a few times where’s she’s dangerously close to skating on a flat, and she doesn’t always exit her moves very cleanly, either. I thought the illusion in the StSq was a little bit uncontrolled, and didn’t love the edge on her kneel-down-lungey-move (he says, to demonstrate his amazing mastery of technical vocabulary), for instance.

Overall, I'm actually torn when it comes to Kiss of the Vampire. For the most part, I think it's her musicality that saved this program, even though her performance of it is something I am hesitant to call inconsistent because I thought she projected well enough all throughout. Maybe not enough to connect to the audience (I think I also gave her relatively low scores in PE) but enough for me to say that she performed with a level of abandon.
Yeah… it’s such an interesting concept, and some parts of it are excellent. I want to love it, because I feel like it had so much potential, but at the end of the day I just don’t think it worked. The dark parts aren’t dark *enough*, the intense parts aren’t intense *enough.* It didn’t help that she seemed, to me, to be distracted from her performance at several points (especially during the step sequence, I don’t think she projected well enough throughout, although the beginning was nice), and at other times the choreography as it was just fell flat, even when she seemed to putting in the effort.

Overall I'm astonishingly surprised though that this broke the 70-mark (though I shouldn't be retrospectively). Even though I personally like this program, I thought this is not a 70 worthy program even with the new scoring system. Those GOEs on her jumps really helped on this case, no?
The GOE helped enormously, especially on her 3F, and she earned numerically much more in GOE than she did in the actual event for the 3Lz+3T (by a full 1.55 points!) and 2A.

But I was surprised to see it break 70, as well. I usually get lower scores when I test with the new system. I scored these both ages ago, and have lost them since, but I want to say she got something like 68 and 140 back them, so these score are quite the boost.
 
She doesn’t do an arabesque in either Layback; that’s a Camel position, and I didn’t give her credit for good positions in her Flying Camel spin. I do very much like her bent leg layover (the “Yuna camel”) position, which also counts for a Level feature.

Huh? https://youtu.be/GIU7Gsbkghg?t=3m38s

The position after the sideways layback... What else is it? Well, it's not a very good position, though. If she'd only dropped her foot in her layback... She even used to accelerate her laybacks.
 
Huh? https://youtu.be/GIU7Gsbkghg?t=3m38s

The position after the sideways layback... What else is it? Well, it's not a very good position, though. If she'd only dropped her foot in her layback... She even used to accelerate her laybacks.

:confused: She does a sideways-leaning position, into a classic layback position, into the catch-foot/haircutter. It’s literally just a classic layback.

Personally, I like laybacks better with the raised foot — can’t stand the low foot, honestly, and always hated Kwan’s layback for that reason — although she could stand to point her toes. YMMV. This is why there’s more than one judge on the panel.
 
Ugh, yes, sorry, "classic". Whoops, meant "attitude", said "arabesque". Slip of... keyboard.

I like the classic attitude when Sasha does it ;) But yeah, I guess different strokes.

EDIT: It's not just the pointed toe, it's the line. She could angle her leg better, and with better turn-out. It's not bad, but it's not good.
 
Yeah... you know, in hindsight, I think I would revise both laybacks back down to +3. Her positions are fine, and usually she has good control, but they’re probably not really “good.”
 
I’m honestly not sure with the FCSp. It’s weird. Unfortunately I can’t find 12-13 but I think they’re the same spin Level rules as 2013-14, so with that in mind, I *think* that she was going for the following level features (in order she performed them):

1. Backwards entry (since replaced by “difficult entry”)
2. Difficult variation (the Yuna camel position)
3. Difficult variation (catch-foot)
4. Clear change of edge (also during the catch-foot)

You can see she enters on a back edge, gets into the Yuna camel (which I love, btw) and then goes into the catch-foot. She loses control a bit, and never quite gets it back although the spin remains centered. In the middle of the catch-foot you notice she changes from an outside to inside edge… but she doesn’t do it well, and the edge sort of wobbles on the flat and even kind back to a back edge at one point, so I believe she lost credit there. However, this was at the end of the spin, so not directly related to the poor flying entry except inasmuch as it threw her off generally. I think it's more related to the poor catch-foot.

She got FCSp4 in Sochi in the short program, where she did the change of edge cleanly.

Ah, I see it now. She was blatantly on the outside edge in the beginning, but went to the flat edge almost the whole time, until she had to exit on her spin. :yes: If she even attempted to go to the inside edge, it was really not noticeable even with the B.Esp you mentioned (I was using the one with the no-commentary with that too bright filter). So from what I get, the change of edges have to be blatant in order to satisfy that bullet point.

Thanks! (I keep forgetting to say that)

Yuna camel (which I love, btw)

Quoting this again because, yes! Another intellectual who loves the Yuna camel. It seems like we're getting fewer as years pass. :noshake:

Well, some of it did. But I think she does most of the balance-challenging moves (which she needed for the Level 4) at inappropriate times. There are some full-body moves in a more low-key section of music which is immediately followed by a more dramatic music through which she just does a set of nice, gliding steps and turns with upright posture on one foot. Why weren’t those sections switched? We’re talking instances of like one second, or singular moves or steps, but I just felt the whole timing of the sequence was a little bit off… it was generally arranged to the music, but there were such obvious instances that were just *off* and *wrong* to me in this regard that I didn’t feel like I could award the GOE bullet.

We actually do have a different experience of the step sequence, then. :laugh: I thought the first half was affective in its musical phrasing and rhythmic pattern, particularly her first lunge movement since she did it when the music went *heavy* and at that moment it's as if she's the one who pressed those heavy keys down. The music went like TIN--tin-tin-teeen (this is the best I could do in explaining the change of rhythm) and the lunge was beautifully placed on that TIN part while the subsequent movements also captured the switch back to lesser heavy key notes. (I really love this part). The tension of the music is actually on the first part (as indicated by the more spacing of the "heavy" notes and how they are held longer to build up anticipation) and while the second one picked up the dynamism of the music, I wouldn't really call her timing off or her movements generally or awkwardly misplaced. I'll nitpick on her illusion spin, which is the only one I will call totally misplaced, the second lunge (which is where I think she should have come down with more force and held it much longer), but really nothing to detract from the overall flow of in relation to the music. But in this case, to each his own I guess.

I am giving her a more leeway here too because I sincerely don't like this music at all, but she made it readable (as in I actually did pay attention to the music and its nuance) so I though if that's the case, then the step sequence did bring out the music and was doing something right.
Yeah… it’s such an interesting concept, and some parts of it are excellent. I want to love it, because I feel like it had so much potential, but at the end of the day I just don’t think it worked. The dark parts aren’t dark *enough*, the intense parts aren’t intense *enough.* It didn’t help that she seemed, to me, to be distracted from her performance at several points (especially during the step sequence, I don’t think she projected well enough throughout, although the beginning was nice), and at other times the choreography as it was just fell flat, even when she seemed to putting in the effort.

Agreed. I think I like it more in a sense that this is different and that it's a rare experience (in my part) when a person actually made me sit through a music which I don't like and come out appreciating it more. I love her costume here to be honest, but the light blue is just too light and the red one is not too red, which doesn't help with the overall tone of this program, IMO. I although thought she is more fluid here (which I initially like) but come to think of it, she may be too fluid for the music.


The GOE helped enormously, especially on her 3F, and she earned numerically much more in GOE than she did in the actual event for the 3Lz+3T (1.55 points!) and 2A.

But I was surprised to see it break 70, as well. I usually get lower scores when I test with the new system. I scored these both ages ago, and have lost them since, but I want to say she got something like 68 and 140 back them, so these score are quite the boost.

I was expecting that it will hover around 69 even with the new GOE bullets, but the 3F and 3T were given boost too in the BV, IIRC. Imagine if you didn't give it an attention mark. Ironically, I thought the judges really underscored here here (in relation to how they normally score, of course); they showed more restrained in giving her higher GOEs in this particular program, and were also equally restrained in her PCS.
 
*Shrugs* Maybe the difference is that unlike you, I actually really liked the KotV music, so had my own expectations fogging my perception.
 
*Shrugs* Maybe the difference is that unlike you, I actually really liked the KotV music, so had my own expectations fogging my perception.

That makes the big difference then, I guess. I didn’t know about KoTV until she announced she was skating to it, and thought the beginning part of the music was too bombastic, or too dissonant for my taste. I was already riding too low in terms of expectation, since I thought this would be a difficult piece to perform on ice. This is perhaps another Giselle in terms of differing opinion (?).
 
That makes the big difference then, I guess. I didn’t know about KoTV until she announced she was skating to it, and thought the beginning part of the music was too bombastic, or too dissonant for my taste. I was already riding too low in terms of expectation, since I thought this would be a difficult piece to perform on ice. This is perhaps another Giselle in terms of differing opinion (?).
...Damn it, I actually want to go restore 2011 now. I remember she did an actually nice Layback.

I like dissonance. But not a lot of performers do it extremely well.
 
...Damn it, I actually want to go restore 2011 now. I remember she did an actually nice Layback.

I like dissonance. But not a lot of performers do it extremely well.

Do it! All her spins are actually better there too (more controlled, more centered, better placement in terms of music) and she showed better turn out as well.

I'm also interested how you will score HtK under the new system (we can just pretend that her ChSp is her ChSq).

ETA: Is it a correct assessment to say that Yuna favors a counterclockwise rotational direction more than a clockwise? (It seems like she skates more in that direction, when I follow her steps and turns.)
 
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?29910-Yu-Na-Kim&p=2077205&viewfull=1#post2077205

2011 would be interesting because steps are no longer required. So 3Lz (step out) would get a -2 GOE, instead of a -5 as it should for everything wrong there.

Slightly overmarked on PCS there, especially Giselle (8.5, 7.5, 8.25, 8.25, 8.25 = 32.60), but meh. HtK might be (TR: 7.75, CO: 8.5 = 66.8). Generally, I'm not sure if CO should be affected by jump failures, but I do deduct if the choreographic impact is lessened, which is true for both these programs.

I thought the illusion in the StSq was a little bit uncontrolled, and didn’t love the edge on her kneel-down-lungey-move (he says, to demonstrate his amazing mastery of technical vocabulary), for instance.

particularly her first lunge movement since she did it when the music went *heavy* and at that moment it's as if she's the one who pressed those heavy keys down. The music went like TIN--tin-tin-teeen


#intellectuals
 
Evgenia Medvedeva: Why Orser? Because of Yuna Kim (google translated but it's not bad), here's link to article; http://flutz.ru/evgeniya-medvedeva-pochemu-orser-potomu-chto-yuna-kim/

Medvedeva said that after leaving Etere Tutberidze, Brian Orser was the only candidate for new coaches: "Because Yuna Kim. This is the first thing that occurred to me when I began to think about the transition. Yuna won the Olympics in Vancouver in 19 years, and in 23 years she became the second at the Games in Sochi. At the Olympic Games in Beijing, I will be 22.

The point, of course, is not one. Orser in general there are many athletes, who in the figure skating are usually called age and who passed more than one Olympiad. Yuna Kim is just one of them. "
 
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