2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[LucyH]

A giant eyeroll to the last few pages of this thread. Heres' to a great season of skating, we'll each support our faves Cheers!

 

[glassanimal]

lol, Hold up. So we’re all supposed to believe the woman who:
A. couldn’t be bothered to take the initiative and congratulate her gold medalist at the OG and overall acted like she was at a funeral (no, Alina going up to and hugging her clearly disinterested coach does not count)
B. told reporters not to call Alina the OC.
C. said, and I quote “they both won gold”, “I don’t know how Evgenia lost” and “We’re still analysing the scores”

We’re now supposed to believe, according to her, that it’s big bad Evgenia who was in denial and can’t handle a loss when even at the Olympics, Evgenia said her program was cheap and she needed to upgrade? That her angel of a coach swooped in and benevolently proclaimed “but Evgenia, that’s not fair! We must give everyone a chance!” when the human demon named Evgenia dared to have a moment of frustration towards a trusted adult? When in the same interview as all of this Alina in juniors nonsense, she boasted that she raised Evgenia to be a leader and silver’s not enough for her? (people forget this part!)

Please, give me a break. I’m so glad Evgenia left this nightmare. It’s so uplifting to see the love and positively she’s recieving in Canada, instead of the crazy train she was riding with “second mommy”

 

[silverfoxes]

A giant eyeroll to the last few pages of this thread. Heres' to a great season of skating, we'll each support our faves Cheers!

Right? We read all this a thousand times before and it needs to be rehashed all summer long? It's not even July yet!

Can't wait to see Zhenya's new programs :agree: and I have no interest in Alina's warhorses what.so.ever :disapp:

 

[moriel]

Well, if you had actually read my post you would have seen that I clearly stated that this isn‘t only about Medvedeva but people in the spotlight in general. We - and sorry to say but you, too - have this weird expectations for famous people to always be nice, perfect, friendly and classy when the reality is that no one is like that all the time. That was my main point. To be a bit more realistic, that‘s all.

I have said it times and again: I do NOT want you to cheer for Evgenia or admire her. I didn‘t call you a hater either. I just don‘t get why have to discuss the SAME things over and over again about her. This topic is done and we all know you don‘t like what she said, so why on Earth bring it up every time she is mentioned? It just doesn‘t make sense. In a way it would be like reliving Alina‘s failure at Worlds all the time when talking about her. You do not have to remind people about skaters‘ mistakes from the past all the time. We remember them. Expressing opinions is okay but this topic is senseless and I am so sick of seeing it pop up again and again but really, what do you expect us to do? If you bring up the topic and raise your opinion, I‘m going to do so, too. You can‘t expect to post something and not get a reaction to it, that wouldn‘t make any sense whatsoever. And again, this isn‘t necessarily directed at you, obviously. It‘s meant in general.

I have read your post, and also your previous posts. We all know that, if it was not for Zhenya, you would not bother.
You called me a hater several times so far.

The topic pops up because people are bothered by it and want to discuss it. The topic pops up because more and more ugly details show up. For example, the part about the congrats on your olympic champion is news to me.

 

[glassanimal]

I have read your post, and also your previous posts. We all know that, if it was not for Zhenya, you would not bother.
You called me a hater several times so far.

The topic pops up because people are bothered by it and want to discuss it. The topic pops up because more and more ugly details show up. For example, the part about the congrats on your olympic champion is news to me.

So what if she said that? Who cares? She was sobbing and overwhelmed through the whole thing, and then she very sadly said to her coach "I did everything I could". This was even picked up live by Johnny Weir on NBC-US. Who knew she had to be so guarded around a woman who literally called her her daughter and watched her struggle for the Olympics since she was a small child... And man, can that girl fight! I just watched the Japanese doc that was recently put out and the way Evgenia fought to pull her depressed and injured self together for the Olympics was truly impressive. Even one of the camera guys was getting emotional because she literally would not quit! There's a lot of heart and passion in that girl, and the mountains made out of molehills in order to pick her apart are disturbing, to say the least. :noshake:

 

[synteis]

Although all the Etieri drama will of course be interesting, I'm most curious to see how the CSKA skaters shape up this year. Will Maria be left in the dust because they decide to support Polina bc of her GOE potential? The CSKA programs this year were very different from Sambo's so I'm curious to see how they package Polina and what her choreo will be like.

Tuktamyshaeva does seem to have the drive back to compete and her jumps are a huge favourite of mine so I'm really excited to see how she does. Her choreo has seldom been inspired but the year that she won everything she showed at the GPF that her programs do have choreo which she does practice and can properly dance when her nerves lessen. She seems to do best with jumps early on and step sequences last so that she can concentrate on the jumping passes and the translate that energy and momentum into fairly compelling step-sequences. The changes to GOE and backloading will only help her in this.

I agree that Radionova seems worn down and her recent struggles with her jumps make it likely that her struggles will only continue this year. Unlike Tukt, she doesn't seem to have found a way to rebound in this very deep Russian field. Because she's such a performer, losing her motivation hurts her scores very strongly.

Pogorilaya is a fun (if often deeply stressful) skater to watch and I really hope she or Gubanova get the host pick.

 

[cohen-esque]

What do you guys think of Tuktamysheva's chances next season if she manages to successfully upgrade her layout and skate well, considering the new scoring changes? Possible layouts?

I've been playing around with possible layouts for her. She says she's going for the 3Lz+3T in the FS and presumably she intends to includes the 3A in both programs. I don't think she'll go for two 3As in the FS. Going by what she's done in the past, I came up with these layouts:

Short Program (BV 35.34)
3A, 3Lz, FSSp4, LSp3, 3T+3T(x), StSq3, CCoSp4

Free Skate (BV 66.17)
3A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz, LSp3, StSq3, 3F, 2A+3T(x), FSSp4, 3S+2T+2Lo(x), 3Lo(x), ChSq, CCoSp4

Obviously those are extremely ambitious, and she mentioned in the GS article about her that she finds her programs tiring, so skating them cleanly will be a huge challenge. But if she does them cleanly, with straight +2 GOE on every element, she'd have TES of 41.40 for the SP and 77.31 for the FS. And considering how much I think the new GOE system should favor her jumps, if the judges apply it at all fairly then those might be conservative estimates, even with errors. (For comparison, at the 2015 WTT, she made multiple errors and still scored 10 points above her base value.)

Obviously her PCS will be an issue for her, but we saw them rise dramatically in 2014-15 when she was considering executing most of her planned layout.

 

[andromache]

What do you guys think of Tuktamysheva's chances next season if she manages to successfully upgrade her layout and skate well, considering the new scoring changes? Possible layouts?

I've been playing around with possible layouts for her. She says she's going for the 3Lz+3T in the FS and presumably she intends to includes the 3A in both programs. I don't think she'll go for two 3As in the FS. Going by what she's done in the past, I came up with these layouts:

Short Program (BV 35.34)
3A, 3Lz, FSSp4, LSp3, 3T+3T(x), StSq3, CCoSp4

Free Skate (BV 66.17)
3A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz, LSp3, StSq3, 3F, 2A+3T(x), FSSp4, 3S+2T+2Lo(x), 3Lo(x), ChSq, CCoSp4

Obviously those are extremely ambitious, and she mentioned in the GS article about her that she finds her programs tiring, so skating them cleanly will be a huge challenge. But if she does them cleanly, with straight +2 GOE on every element, she'd have TES of 41.40 for the SP and 77.31 for the FS. And considering how much I think the new GOE system should favor her jumps, if the judges apply it at all fairly then those might be conservative estimates, even with errors. (For comparison, at the 2015 WTT, she made multiple errors and still scored 10 points above her base value.)

Obviously her PCS will be an issue for her, but we saw them rise dramatically in 2014-15 when she was considering executing most of her planned layout.

If she has a reliable 3Lz-3T, I assume she will have it in both programs or not at all.

What GOE do your calculations take into account for her spins? Her jumps are definitely deserving of decent GOE, but probably not the rest of her elements.

 

[cohen-esque]

If she has a reliable 3Lz-3T, I assume she will have it in both programs or not at all.

Well, she specifically stated she “plans to include it at least in free skate,” but not necessarily the short, which is why I didn’t need include it there. (Article.)

What GOE do your calculations take into account for her spins? Her jumps are definitely deserving of decent GOE, but probably not the rest of her elements.

I just gave her a +2 on everything, to try and be conservative but not totally stingy: jumps, spins, steps, ChSq. She mostly earns +1ish for her spins now, so I didn’t think it was too high: her spins are at least decently centered, so there’s at least +1 under the new system. But I also think any loss there is offset by her jumps: I really do think that if she skates like this, for instance, she should earn high GOE for them. (Personally, I went with -3, +2, +1, +4, +3, +4, +4)

 

[chopinskate]

Not sure about the +4 for the 3T-3T, with the wild-looking first 3T. Not sure about the +4s at all really.

I think she can perform better than that, as long as she has the right vehicle. I hope she adds more oomph to her movement, even if she isn't more precise with it. I don't think anything more than low 8s on everything except transitions (7.5 there) is deserved, for a PCS of 63.2 if we take 8.0s for the other four components. It's annoying because this sort of music is where she could have been very charismatic, but she failed. I hope she does better.

 

[cohen-esque]

Not sure about the +4 for the 3T-3T, with the wild-looking first 3T. Not sure about the +4s at all really.

Why not? Didn’t see the wildness on the 3T+3T (the SP combination wasn’t very well done, though), but her other second-half jumps were big and easy looking, and I appreciate that she doesn’t need to hunch into her takeoffs. The salchow especially was gorgeous; I can’t think of a better one by a woman. (And I can’t think of a better triple by a man, actually, only quads.) I thought the flip was obviously her worst jump there, considered giving it just a 0.

But the point is not just to debate what I’d rescore her as, that’s for the fan fests, just to point out that I think she might be able to bring in a lot of +GOE points on her jumps. It helps that her best jump is the Lutz, especially if she can repeat it with the 3Lz+3T. Even with the +2Lo< she got +GOE on her 3Lz combo here, and the 3Lz+3T she did in 2013 wasn’t bad.

I think she can perform better than that, as long as she has the right vehicle. I hope she adds more oomph to her movement, even if she isn't more precise with it. I don't think anything more than low 8s on everything except transitions (7.5 there) is deserved, for a PCS of 63.2 if we take 8.0s for the other four components. It's annoying because this sort of music is where she could have been very charismatic, but she failed. I hope she does better.

Yeah, her PCS will be the issue. If she skates well, I don’t really think the judges will keep her down, but it depends alors on how she competes. Her programs in 2014-15 weren’t masterpieces by any stretch of the imagination, but she was sooooooo good at performing them (especially the FS) by the GPF/Nats/Euros. She needs to get comfortable with the choreography and build the stamina to keep a performance up.

---

I guess that basically, I’m curious whether people think that if Liza pulls out another season like 14-15, it will be enough to get her onto the podium at RusNats or at least to make the senior teams to Euros and Worlds again. The competition is much stiffer: Polina with similarly big jumps, Radionova is still around and defeated her handily at CoC last season, Panenkova is moving up, Sotskova has matched her best scores, and Medvedeva and Zagitova have both far exceeded them. But it might be worth noting that her scores at Nats in 2015 would have probably have gotten her on Worlds team last season, and would have kept her in the top 5 every year since when Med and Pogo were still around. (And that’s despite her making several errors in 2015, too.)

 

[Orlov]

We in Siberia saw a Hollywood blockbuster on this topic. Perhaps this kind of behavior has become so common in NA that you make films? There is a freedom of speech in Russia. Everyone has the right to express his/her views freely and without censorship - http://i001.radikal.ru/1107/5e/7a9de2d2db11.gif

By the way, in Russia we are against the expansion of consciousness with drugs. Some ISU NA officials are upset by the fall of public interest in figure skating. Do they really need FS? They can slap 5 revolutions jumps 24 hours seven days a week.

I feel that Denis will soon release another post in his blog on sport.ru - screenshots, irrational and pathos humor - everything will be as usual

 

[Orlov]

lol, Hold up. So we’re all supposed to believe the woman who:
A. couldn’t be bothered to take the initiative and congratulate her gold medalist at the OG and overall acted like she was at a funeral (no, Alina going up to and hugging her clearly disinterested coach does not count)
B. told reporters not to call Alina the OC.
C. said, and I quote “they both won gold”, “I don’t know how Evgenia lost” and “We’re still analysing the scores”

We’re now supposed to believe, according to her, that it’s big bad Evgenia who was in denial and can’t handle a loss when even at the Olympics, Evgenia said her program was cheap and she needed to upgrade? That her angel of a coach swooped in and benevolently proclaimed “but Evgenia, that’s not fair! We must give everyone a chance!” when the human demon named Evgenia dared to have a moment of frustration towards a trusted adult? When in the same interview as all of this Alina in juniors nonsense, she boasted that she raised Evgenia to be a leader and silver’s not enough for her? (people forget this part!)

Please, give me a break. I’m so glad Evgenia left this nightmare. It’s so uplifting to see the love and positively she’s recieving in Canada, instead of the crazy train she was riding with “second mommy”

Сompletely did not understand the general meaning of this comment.

 

[chopinskate]

Why not? Didn’t see the wildness on the 3T+3T (the SP combination wasn’t very well done, though), but her other second-half jumps were big and easy looking, and I appreciate that she doesn’t need to hunch into her takeoffs. The salchow especially was gorgeous; I can’t think of a better one by a woman.

The first 3T just doesn't have a very good quality to me while it's in the air (it might be the way her legs are positioned -- the second is tighter). Not a good-looking combo, to me, but the GOE system hardly cares about that. Her other two jumps were good, but there's nothing extra special there to warrant a +40% score -- but again, hardly what this system cares about.

https://youtu.be/elDpqKUPt9U?t=2m16s

Maybe this is better.

I can see her 3Lo being good (good pop and good extension on the landing, with the flow being used as a transition), but still nothing out of this world to receive such a high score, IMO. I'd give +3s, but that seems like an arbitrary number anyway.

(And I can’t think of a better triple by a man, actually, only quads.)

A better 3S? Well, of course not, they hardly ever do one now.

 

[Azikin]

I guess that basically, I’m curious whether people think that if Liza pulls out another season like 14-15, it will be enough to get her onto the podium at RusNats or at least to make the senior teams to Euros and Worlds again.

I think that she has zero chances (as well as Radionova), but it's just my humble opinion..

 

[Ded Moroz]

puremagic, come back and have some drinks with us.

 

[plushyfan]

We in Siberia saw a Hollywood blockbuster on this topic. Perhaps this kind of behavior has become so common in NA that you make films? There is a freedom of speech in Russia. Everyone has the right to express his/her views freely and without censorship - http://i001.radikal.ru/1107/5e/7a9de2d2db11.gif[/B]

OMG! I opened your link and I was really surprised! All of the links mentioned my city, Debrecen ( hungarian city) with similar text for example: "Here in the city of Debrecen earn millionaires" Really? Debrecen is so little and insignificant..OMG! What want the Russian to do in my city?? :shocked:

 

[KiraraChin]

I love the fact that yesterday Alina's FP was officially announced, and yet this thread was all about Zhenya

Well done, guys! :agree:

 

[Orlov]

Omg, I can see it clearly now - all said with sarcastic grimace.

I actually didn't care much about Eteri before, because she's definitely tough character as well, but now I feel sorry for her in that moment.

I completely agree: before, Eteri smiled sympathetically to Zhenya, makes an attempt to wipe her tears. After these words, Eteri's face changed as if she had been slapped. (But she still hugs Zhenya, looks into her eyes, tries to bring her to reason)

Look at the faces of Dudakov and Daniel at 56.00. Or here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJWjmZOrWHo&feature=youtu.be&t=15
Face of Daniel when he leaves KiK (at 0.20), like if he comes from a funeral (to lavieenrose - at 0.17, it is clear that Eteri says - "я с тобой не согласна" (I do not agree with you), but this applies to whole of the situation, not to the words of Zhenya "I did everything I could")

By the way, I think that's why the coaches were not so happy and did not support Alina before awarding - they were shocked by what happened. "Fans" always are worried about sportsmens, but why do not they worry about coaches who definitely do not deserve it?

 

[[email protected]]

I feel that Denis will soon release another post in his blog on sport.ru - screenshots, irrational and pathos humor - everything will be as usual

Guys, in search of the data on when Rostelecom tickets go into sale I happened to read a couple of threads on sports.ru including the one on GP assignments. Please,do not bring this nightmare here - it's beyond good and evil. Sorry for the offtopic.