2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[tars]

Lollll

You: Zhenya is unsportsmanlike and wanted to stop Alina -> no proof but Eteri said so
You: I accept this as fact

Someone: Eteri badmouths her former students -> actual proof she’s done it plenty of times
You: defamation!

Nobody used word "badmouth" at all, Spirals accused Eteri of continuous lying about her students.
It's very strong accusation.

 

[Fluture]

She is human.
You see, we are not supposed to like all humans, or approve of what they do.

I dont like her, as she seems arrogant (some recent interviews, certain things before the split, like adding an extra jump in competition), entitled (recent interviews, "why Alina was not kept in juniors?"), shallow (her interviews about studies, for example, or how she mentioned Yuna's longevity as reason to move to Orser) and hypocrite (recent interviews vs old interviews) for me. I do not claim this is some final truth about Zhenya and her personality, but that is how I see her based on her public appearances.

You see, there is this thing - we are NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE HER OR TO CHEER FOR HER. I don't care if it was a moment of weakness (usually, those moments actually show how the person really is on inside, it is easy to be nice when everything is going well), because there is no rule anywhere forcing me to forgive all Zhenya's moments of weakness for some reason.

I dont like Medvedeva and I dont cheer for her any more. Not because she left Eteri or moved to Canada, but because of how she left Eteri (I was raised to respect teachers), and because of what she said in her interviews after the split.

I also really don't understand why do you keep writing here how we are all supposed to forgive whatever weird stuff Zhenya has said / done, and how we are haters for not doing it.

This thread is not a fanfest.
People here are not supposed to like any specific skaters.
There is no rule against discussing things that a skater has said or done and expressing our oppinions about it.

Well, if you had actually read my post you would have seen that I clearly stated that this isn‘t only about Medvedeva but people in the spotlight in general. We - and sorry to say but you, too - have this weird expectations for famous people to always be nice, perfect, friendly and classy when the reality is that no one is like that all the time. That was my main point. To be a bit more realistic, that‘s all.

I have said it times and again: I do NOT want you to cheer for Evgenia or admire her. I didn‘t call you a hater either. I just don‘t get why have to discuss the SAME things over and over again about her. This topic is done and we all know you don‘t like what she said, so why on Earth bring it up every time she is mentioned? It just doesn‘t make sense. In a way it would be like reliving Alina‘s failure at Worlds all the time when talking about her. You do not have to remind people about skaters‘ mistakes from the past all the time. We remember them. Expressing opinions is okay but this topic is senseless and I am so sick of seeing it pop up again and again but really, what do you expect us to do? If you bring up the topic and raise your opinion, I‘m going to do so, too. You can‘t expect to post something and not get a reaction to it, that wouldn‘t make any sense whatsoever. And again, this isn‘t necessarily directed at you, obviously. It‘s meant in general.

 

[tars]

"Олимпийская чемпионка" (Olympic champion) - weak, but you can hear at 55.38
"поздравляю" (my congratulations) -really distinctly reads on the lips, at 55.40

Wow, you're good at lips reading, I can clearly see/hear it now.

 

[LucyH]

To each their own - I for one will continue to cheer loudly and proudly for Evgenia! Love her spunk, her vivacious personality and her willingness to try new things and adventures!!! We are going to be cheering her live in SC [emoji3][emoji106]

 

[Fluture]

Ashley has a big mouth ("sonograms"!), big ego (reaction to last nationals f.i.), but I doubt she'd ever secretly demanded Gracie, Karen, Mirai or Bradie out of competition for whatever reason.
Like her or not, girl's a fighter. :thumbsup:

You do realise though, that „demanding someone out of competition“ is entirely different than „damn it, I lost, why on earth didn‘t you keep this girl in junior one more season?“ The first is an active try to keep someone away from their chance at success, like, actually doing something to achieve this. The second one is just talking, an agreeably not very nice and unsportsmanlike comment in the heat of the moment, after just losing a competition to said skater.

 

[frallik]

Actually, why didn't you keep Alina in Junior? isn't the same as please keep Alina in Junior (and as always, IF she said that )

Turning away from the truth is a fun game. But it ends with trouble. Maybe we in Russia have not got used to the fact that FS ladies hitting each other with skate blades on the head.

Moreover, it is impossible to treat the foot and at the same time to spend 10 hours of FS practice on ice each day.
After Rostelecom it became clear Medvedeva is not ready for EuroCup and OG. Her participation in GPF was mandatory. She was given two free months on the condition that she will perform at the OG and WC.

There were no official medical documents on her injury (legs, back) after the OG. Words... words... words...
She refused to take part in WC, which was a stupid revenge to Rus FFS. In ISU WC protocols there is no graph of "Evgenia Medvedeva WD". Under the threat of blackmail by EM, ISU retreated. In the new season it will put HER in place - flutz, clumsy trips, low jumps... though the bald hell! The right of immunity towards her is no longer valid. She will be teached a lesson so that others would be discouraged for the next 50 years.

 

[TGee]

I don't understand why people have to pick sides.

Evgenia should be praised more for her courage to try something different, this is huge: a russian skater working abroad with a canadian coach, you don't really see it. On the other hand Eteri is right to be pissed by how things went, with two of her biggest skaters going to rival coaches.

We'll see how this translates on ice, at Skate Canada we have already Medvedeva, Tursynbaeva and Panenkova all there.

Tolstoy we are much of the same mind on this one. Why are sides needed?

And as you know I have long admired Zhenya's potential and quirky personality.

Yet, I've been someone who was frustrated that, success in competition aside, some of Zhenya's technical development was sacrificed to maximize a strategy based on last quadrennial's IJS scoring.

So, TCC or not, I hope she can reach her own goals in improving her spins and jumps.

I don't agree that coaches own skaters though. I find that a bad attitude for a coach. It's not disrespectful to see that your coach is no longer the best fit for you. Certainly, Eteri drops skaters when they aren't a good fit for her vision and program.

'Coaching diplomacy' is all the more difficult when a skater has spent most of their developmental years with a coach. Saying goodbye and making an adult decision is very hard to do without hard feelings.

But maternal/paternal coaching relationship or not, it's the skaters' parents and not the coaches who will be there for their kids when they retire and they face the long term physical and mental health impacts of their training.

So, let's stipulate that, from a Russian cultural perspective, it wasn't the most gracious exit possible. Publicly thanking Eteri, but not doing it in person is problematic.

That said, such a dramatic public reaction from Eteri creates a situation where a thank you with flowers becomes an apology with flowers.

So, it could be a long time before they can reconcile.

But, do we really need to keep this going here?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

... we have GP assignments to discuss...
Zhenya faces tough fields
Alina faces competition but all skaters she can easily beat
Dasha has really tough competition but I hope she can turn heads
Radionova, Konstantinova, Samodurova, and Tuktamysheva need to prove themselves
Maria and Polina need to show that they are awesome and strong because they both have moments of brilliance and moments of not so much brilliance

 

[Fluture]

Turning away from the truth is a fun game. But it ends with trouble. Maybe we in Russia have not got used to the fact that FS ladies hitting each other with skate blades on the head.

Oh my god, you did not really say that, did you? If this wasn‘t so outrageous, it‘d be more than hilarious. Actually, it is. Hilarious. Ridiculous. I do not have any words for this. At all.

 

[tars]

The thing is, if you think about it logically many of the arguments here don‘t even make sense. Zhenya is not even setting a bad example for younger generations because she never said anything bad about Alina for anyone in public to hear. She congratulated her and hugged her in the moment of her greatest defeat. If you want to have a skater who‘s set a bad example, it‘d probably be Ashley Wagner. What she said about Alina during the Olympics was not very nice at all and she did it publicly, just after Alina won.
I‘m not trying to actually defend the words Zhenya said, though: They are bad. But well, I say it again: She did not intend for anything bad about Alina to go public. She was emotional, very much so, sad and generally just stressed out by everything. If you have never said something you later regretted to a person you trusted ultimately in a moment when emotions were running high... well, then you’re probably a saint. But I don‘t think that‘s true, if you stop denying yourself that. We all did and said stupid things. It‘s a part of life. It’s a part of learning. Nobody of us is perfect. Zhenya isn’t and Eteri isn‘t. They BOTH made mistakes regarding this parting of ways. Neither of them is without fault. And we, as fans will never know the true story anyway.

You're partly right, nobody is saint, especially during sporting competition at the highest stake. Moreover these people are often specimens with huge egos and sky-rocketing ambitions and emotions, so they are prone to cross the lines and rules.
Thing is, there is huge difference between trying more or less dirty tricks in the competition TO WIN and trying them outside the competition TO AVOID it.

First is breaking the rules or customs of the sport, latter is denial of the sport itself.

 

[skatingfan200]

Turning away from the truth is a fun game. But it ends with trouble.

Like on your blog (sports.ru)?

 

[TGee]

... we have GP assignments to discuss...
Zhenya faces tough fields
Alina faces competition but all skaters she can easily beat
Dasha has really tough competition but I hope she can turn heads
Radionova, Konstantinova, Samodurova, and Tuktamysheva need to prove themselves
Maria and Polina need to show that they are awesome and strong because they both have moments of brilliance and moments of not so much brilliance

Fair point...

Zhenya won't have an easy ride to the GPF, especially as she intends to evolve her technique.

But I'm really not sure how any of the Russian women will fare with the scoring changes. It's really going to be incredibly random until late in the season.

Inconsistency and falls will be more heavily penalized which is a huge risk for most of them.

Many of the things that gave them GOE bullet points are gone or won't do much if they don't have the big jumps needed to get 4s and 5s.

And relearning jumps to meet the new standard is risky...

While I'm sure Russian coaches and choreographers will adjust the strategy to maximize skaters' results, there's only so much that can be done before this fall.

I'm really curious to see how this turns out.

So, pass the popcorn and enjoy! [emoji897]

 

[tars]

I hear absolutely the same Only - "well... you have an Olympic champion, congratulations", "ну" translates as "well"

Omg, I can see it clearly now - all said with sarcastic grimace.

I actually didn't care much about Eteri before, because she's definitely tough character as well, but now I feel sorry for her in that moment.

 

[skatingfan200]

Thing is, there is huge difference between trying more or less dirty tricks in the competition TO WIN and trying them outside the competition TO AVOID it.

First is breaking the rules or customs of the sport, latter is denial of the sport itself.

Yes, but the thing is she never tried to avoid the competition with Alina. A sentence after the competition, highly likely emotinal in trust with her "mother" Eteri.

 

[Lily flowers]

Oh joy! Now people have something else to reference in each and every post until the end of time. As if this thread wasn’t so much fun already

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Fair point...

Zhenya won't have an easy ride to the GPF, especially as she intends to evolve her technique.

But I'm really not sure how any of the Russian women will fare with the scoring changes. It's really going to be incredibly random until late in the season.

Inconsistency and falls will be more heavily penalized which is a huge risk for most of them.

Many of the things that gave them GOE bullet points are gone or won't do much if they don't have the big jumps needed to get 4s and 5s.

And relearning jumps to meet the new standard is risky...

While I'm sure Russian coaches and choreographers will adjust the strategy to maximize skaters' results, there's only so much that can be done before this fall.

I'm really curious to see how this turns out.

So, pass the popcorn and enjoy! [emoji897]

Hmm I had thought that they’d benefit from the rule changes that favor consistency and lack of falls. But I think you’re right that it’ll be very arbitrary for a long while

 

[cohen-esque]

Polina
I’m worried about Polina: she’s a bit of a wildcard right now, since we don’t really know what shape she’s in with the coaching change. And she’s at Skate America again, right off the bat, to the same skaters who pushed her off the podium last season (Satoko, Kaori, Bradie). It doesn’t seem like the ideal start to the season if she loses to those three again and she needs momentum. Hopefully, with the new GOE, she can overtake Satoko, as she’s one of the Russian women with big enough jumps to earn +4 and +5.

Evgenia
I’m not sure if Evgenia can rely on extremely high scores. Her PCS will probably go down anyway this season, being a post-Olympic, especially if she skates decently but not to as high a level as at the Olympics (see Lipnitskaia at 2014 TEB.). I don’t think the GOE changes really favor her, especially if she’s in the midst of changing her technique. And despite her consistency she’s never skated a clean GP event before.

But, she’s more consistent than most all her competition, and she can automatically rack up some of the jump GOE points— step, music, maybe effortlessness for her loops and Salchows. Body position if her tanos and Rippons are done well, perhaps. Her spins and steps are strong and those GOE bullets are easier to achieve now, IMO. And her PCS are sky-high, so I think even if they come down she’ll have an advantage there. I think she can win both of her events, and I can’t see her finishing lower than silver without an absolute disaster like she’s never had before (this is more likely at Skate Canada, if it’s to happen). So then the question becomes how she can compare to Alina and the other women to make the GPF score wise. They won’t have a direct match up, but if she can get to the Final with a higher average score for the season (or vice versa) it should spell out how the second half of the season will go.

Tuktamysheva
Tukt doesn’t have terrible assignments, and could get good results if she can skate like she did at Cup of China with her increased difficulty. In general the jump GOE should favor her. I rewatched that competition the other day and I think she has the only 3S from a woman I’ve ever seen worth a +3 (or +5,now). And a lot of the bullets she was losing out on aren’t there anymore. If she manages to get the 3As around and repeat the 3Lz in the FS, her scores should rise. Without those she can still do well, but I doubt we’ll enough to challenge for a spot in the Final.

 

[frallik]

Oh my god, you did not really say that, did you? If this wasn‘t so outrageous, it‘d be more than hilarious. Actually, it is. Hilarious. Ridiculous. I do not have any words for this. At all.

We in Siberia saw a Hollywood blockbuster on this topic. Perhaps this kind of behavior has become so common in NA that you make films? There is a freedom of speech in Russia. Everyone has the right to express his/her views freely and without censorship - http://i001.radikal.ru/1107/5e/7a9de2d2db11.gif

By the way, in Russia we are against the expansion of consciousness with drugs. Some ISU NA officials are upset by the fall of public interest in figure skating. Do they really need FS? They can slap 5 revolutions jumps 24 hours seven days a week.

 

[tars]

You do realise though, that „demanding someone out of competition“ is entirely different than „damn it, I lost, why on earth didn‘t you keep this girl in junior one more season?“ The first is an active try to keep someone away from their chance at success, like, actually doing something to achieve this. The second one is just talking, an agreeably not very nice and unsportsmanlike comment in the heat of the moment, after just losing a competition to said skater.

Actually, why didn't you keep Alina in Junior? isn't the same as please keep Alina in Junior (and as always, IF she said that )

What if I told you Evgenia mom's relationship with Eteri went south when Tutberidze declared Alina for seniors in Olympic season?

 

[frallik]

Yes, but the thing is she never tried to avoid the competition with Alina. A sentence after the competition, highly likely emotinal in trust with her "mother" Eteri.

"she never tried to avoid the competition with Alina" - now she herself appoints her rivals... those who have a mature female skating begins immediately after 3T+3T