2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Orlov]

Over inflation was EVERYWHERE!

It's true. For example, I completely don't understand how Daleman on OG got 61.75 PCS with three fall, when Dabin Choy got 62.75 PCS with clean FP. Mystery...

Funny moment. In the first combo 3T+3T she had very bad landing - for noname GOE about -0.7 ... -1.0. But she had GOE +0.1. TAT said "she fall on Lutz... in first combo also slightly reduced... wait... added on combo? mother of God... " Grishin said "What do you want, Tatyana Anatolyevna? It's Canada on the ice - they are all covered with maple leaves!" I laughed

After Gaby wiped all the ice with her body, judges did not take risks and gave her -0.3 GOE for this combo on slow review.

 

[LucyH]

It's true. For example, I completely don't understand how Daleman on OG got 61.75 PCS with three fall, when Dabin Choy got 62.75 PCS with clean FP. Mystery...

Funny moment. In the first combo 3T+3T she had very bad landing - for noname GOE about -0.7 ... -1.0. But she had GOE +0.1. TAT said "she fall on Lutz... in first combo also slightly reduced... wait... added on combo? mother of God... " Grishin said "What do you want, Tatyana Anatolyevna? It's Canada on the ice - they are all covered with maple leaves!" I laughed

After Gaby wiped all the ice with her body, judges did not take risks and gave her -0.3 GOE for this combo on slow review.

Yup by no means was I implying only certain skaters get over inflation. The state of FS judging in general is a travesty. I don’t get upset when Canadian skaters are mentioned in posts about over inflation [emoji57][emoji38]

 

[zounger]

Yup, I agree with this 100%. Alina's PCS made no sense throughout the whole season - and I believe Zhenya's PCS were already too high, mind you, they left them absolutely no room for actual improvement, which will be a problem for both of them as ladies with higher TES will turn senior.

I also agree that Kostornaya truly is such a talent, and the fact that she only beat Trusova in PCS by one point at Jr Worlds is just...??? Why.

3/5 of PCS are TES or choreography composition related. Trusova is not lacking in those 3/5 of PCS and actually is better. The PE and IN you can say she is better but still with not a big margin. That's why she is only a 1-2 point ahead of Trusova.

 

[Orlov]

Yup by no means was I implying only certain skaters get over inflation. The state of FS judging in general is a travesty. I don’t get upset when Canadian skaters are mentioned in posts about over inflation [emoji57][emoji38]

One thing is unclear to me - why do you criticize the judicial system in the "State of Russian Ladies' Skating"? May be better in the Canadian theme?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

One thing is unclear to me - why do you criticize the judicial system in the "State of Russian Ladies' Skating"? May be better in the Canadian theme?

Since LucyH is making the argument that inflation is everywhere I think she is saying it exists in both Russian and Canadian Skating. Probably a true statement too......scores have been trending up the last few seasons.

 

[LucyH]

Since LucyH is making the argument that inflation is everywhere I think she is saying it exists in both Russian and Canadian Skating. Probably a true statement too......scores have been trending up the last few seasons.

The Canadian threads don't get bumped as much as this one

 

[frallik]

There is only one Sasha .....and she does her stretching in the air! #TinyBoss
https://www.instagram.com/p/BklC505jICC/

a ha-ha... she isn't jumping - she is FLYING! Katuyshathe Best - http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1530378895/a55ae9fa/22309985.jpg

 

[Spirals for Miles]

OP has been updated

 

[dante]

And it doesn't matter what artistry Alina has. Not the best? Doesn't matter. Her scores are so through the roof already, there is almost no room to grow.

Someone on you-know-which Russian site collected statistics on scores, and he couldn't find a judge who would really care about different components. A judge simply decides that he likes (or not so much) a skater and gives him the same points 5 times with a little scatter.

Maybe judges just don't have enough time to think over the different aspects of a program, but the component scores may as well be united in a single value affected by different bullets, like the GOE.

Yup by no means was I implying only certain skaters get over inflation. The state of FS judging in general is a travesty. I don’t get upset when Canadian skaters are mentioned in posts about over inflation

"Over-inflation"? I suggest a new term: underoverscoring - when an athlete isn't overscored as much as he deserved.

P.S. A hint to everyone: there's absolutely nothing wrong with ignoring a comment you disagree with. https://xkcd.com/386

 

[LucyH]

Someone on you-know-which Russian site collected statistics on scores, and he couldn't find a judge who would really care about different components. A judge simply decides that he likes (or not so much) a skater and gives him the same points 5 times with a little scatter.

Maybe judges just don't have enough time to think over the different aspects of a program, but the component scores may as well be united in a single value affected by different bullets, like the GOE.



"Over-inflation"? I suggest a new term: underoverscoring - when an athlete isn't overscored as much as he deserved.

P.S. A hint to everyone: there's absolutely nothing wrong in ignoring a comment you disagree with. https://xkcd.com/386

Well we have all given up and acknowledge that Judges don’t really properly judge according to the rules anyway so inflation is already in the base [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] so we’re now talking about going beyond. Sad but true

 

[colormyworld240]

Wakaba did beat Alina. You can cry some more about that, while you remember Alina wasn't even good enough for a bronze.

But really, it's not Wakaba's fault the sport is so corrupt that that disaster where Alina didn't know what music was, never mind anything else while she rolled around on the ice, gets the same PCS that a clean, perfect skate by Wakaba does.

So yes, Alina will have no problems "beating" Wakaba, no matter what Wakaba does. The judges will make sure of it after all. They've been doing that for a good season now.

You really have a bone to pick with Alina. Yes her worlds PCS was way too high. But in case you haven't noticed, PCS of top skaters don't decrease more than 6 points from their best even if their programs turn into splatfests. And top skaters now include Alina, the olympic champion. Evgenia, when she falls, doesn't experience any decrease in PCS, but yes she only falls once or twice. Same with with Kaetlyn. Carolina, who doubles and pops all over her programs still gets at least 72 PCS which is not far off from her PB. Alina's 69 from 75 actually was a huge drop in comparison. You may not agree with Alina's PCS throughout this season, but her placement was correct in all competitions (CoC debatable) whether you like that or not. And while you're talking about overscoring, why don't you look at the overscoring of GOEs for other skaters, regardless of how their jumps and spins actually are with muscling, travelling, edge issues, etc. Pointing out overscoring of one score component while ignoring another is just using it to fit your agenda.

 

[cohen-esque]

3/5 of PCS are TES or choreography composition related. Trusova is not lacking in those 3/5 of PCS and actually is better. The PE and IN you can say she is better but still with not a big margin. That's why she is only a 1-2 point ahead of Trusova.

Actually, I would absolutely say that Kostornaia is better in SS, PE, CO, and IN. Without hesitation.

 

[atsumiri]

\
P.S. A hint to everyone: there's absolutely nothing wrong in ignoring a comment you disagree with. https://xkcd.com/386

THIS!

 

[chopinskate]

Actually, I would absolutely say that Kostornaia is better in SS, PE, CO, and IN. Without hesitation.

I would say she's better than Trusova across the board in PCS -- her transitions seem of better quality, but I guess that's up to what's being done in a program. It's not about PCS, though. She seems to have a knack for attention to detail when she's really "on" and has a bit of maturity, and can be trained to create more cohesive and extended movement that she can use to milk music notes in the future. I want her to get away from the Eteri school of choreography and try someone like Tom Dickson, because her SP was crammed full of movements that she couldn't really extend through well, and the way she sometimes positioned her free leg wasn't the best (nor was the way she holds and suddenly dropped her free leg in attitude during her step sequence -- needs more extension of movement). She can still use a bit of development in learning how to hold attention in programs like her LP this season, but the talent is there.

Also, since this was an argument someone had with me on this thread a while back: she is an easy example of who's better than Trusova at the axel. She kicks up, where Trusova tries to but ends up creating more force with swinging her body into it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think in the SP Sasha was as good as anyone in terms of PCS this season. Transitions, Skating Skills, Interpretation, Choreography were all done well. Especially moments like the way they choreographed the whole 3z-3lo with the cantilever into the 3f and and the whole transition of the music and character. Every bit of PCS was utilized effectively with top level execution. Maybe her SS aren’t up to Kostornaya level but I think she makes up for it with character in her performance and interpretation of music. She’s all in!

https://youtu.be/h6f7_OTu_08?t=1m30s

Kostornaya is great too but I think I can see why the judges would score them similarly. Like it or not Sasha’s jumps add to her program’s impact and impression on the audience and judges. They are different skaters but to someone like me who appreciates both for completely different reasons I see high scoring potential for both. I mean..getting a 9.25 in INT for example can be done in completly different and unrelated ways. Judges gonna judge

Tarakanova had my favorite programs and spins, Sasha was the most fun to watch, and Alena became the music in very subtle ways with the best transitions on the planet.

 

[chopinskate]

They are different but to someone like me who appreciates both for completely different reasons I see high scoring potential for both.

I appreciate differences. The sport would be boring otherwise. But I don't think Trusova was on the same level as Kostornaia. She needs time to develop (more time than Kostornaia), but she does have some nice qualities.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Regarding Kosto vs Sasha: I think Sasha also has her strengths in PE & IN with the right program - her SP last season worked, her LP IMO didn't. But it's funny enough especially the technical part of PCS - SS & TR - where I think Kosto is clearly better. Not that Sasha is bad, far from it, but Kostos effortless glide and speed while performing so many difficult, complex steps is just incredible.

Regarding Kosto vs senior ladies, I'd agree she's better then many. Even many that are top senior ladies.

 

[Fluture]

For me, Kosto and Sasha are equal. That‘s why I wouldn‘t want to judge them. Sasha is a jumper and even though her other elements are far from bad, she most of all loves to jump and that‘s what you can clearly see. She has spunk, she has energy and fire and most of all she has never ending courage and that‘s what makes her programs so exciting to watch, even though there‘s not much there artistically yet. She has time to improve but I don‘t think she‘ll ever be the most artistic skater but that‘s okay. She has other strengths and that‘s what makes the sport so interesting: the diversity.

Kosto to me, seems like the complete package. While her jumps aren‘t as difficult as Sasha‘s they‘re executed well and technically sound. And her artistry is sublime of course. She has this grace and this elegance you can‘t teach because it‘s simply innate, you either have it or you don‘t. The way she moves her arms, how she glides over the ice and feels the music... It‘s a pleasure to watch.

So, in conclusion I‘d say Sasha and Kosto are widely different but both incredibly interesting and a force to be reckoned with once they turn senior. If I had to bet my money on someone in the topic of longevity though, it would be Alena. Just because she seems to be the more balanced one of the two. But that‘s a personal opinion and might widely differ.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Yep, there are plenty of them at this very forum and they might feel offended.


Daniil about Alina's Carmen
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1064719111.html

Could you please translate what Daniil said or wrote about Alina’s Carmen program? Thanks.

 

[zounger]

Actually, I would absolutely say that Kostornaia is better in SS, PE, CO, and IN. Without hesitation.

She has the potential to be better and most likely is, but her programs were not so complete/full choreographically and composition wise as Trusova's. Both of them executed them very well but it wasn't Alena's fault since CO is something highly related to choreographer and what was given to her to do . We will have a better picture with the new season. Alena is more mature definatly she is older and mostly she looks like the type of girl which will mature early oposed to Alexandra.

Also, another factor that may affect the PCS for the judges (it shouldn't but, I think it does) is the level on step sequence.