2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Tolstoj]

http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent03111604.htm

Russia is going to have quite a lineup for the Ondrej Nepela Trophy:

Zagitova, Tsurskaya, Konstantinova, along with Kolyada, Voronov, Erohov and SK + ZG for dance.

So many team members, definitely an event to watch. :agree:

edit: Rika Kihira is there going up against the Russian girls!

Elizabet Tursynbaeva and Moris Kvitelashvili are also there, so pretty much all senior skaters from Eteri's group are there.

 

[hanca]

Elizabet Tursynbaeva and Moris Kvitelashvili are also there, so pretty much all senior skaters from Eteri's group are there.

Let’s see if being with Tutberidze will suddenly make Tursynbaeva a great skater.

 

[Orlov]

Also from a population demographic standpoint they have more depth because they have more people to choose from.

If you look at it from that perspective they actually have a smaller take of the medals at worlds when comparing them to other nations...just saying

It's completely wrong logic. It's not about demography. It would be so, if in every small town there would be conditions such as in Moscow. But it's not.
Figure skating is an expensive sport. Ice time rent, skates, dresses, etc. Skater parents (usually mom) should be really involved, so again it requires some prosperity. For example, Nastya Zinina (silver medal on show "Ice age. Kids") came from Rostov together with her mother who lives with her in Moscow. But this means that their dad can afford to keep them in Moscow. Believe me, not every russian family has such incomes. Heck, many can not just rent an apartment in Moscow as did Zagitova's family.
But this is only one side of the problem. Our sports infrastructure is not sufficiently developed. The first thing about which Zhenya asked the president when team met with him - new skating rink. She spoke about this at the press-conference. Then Bobrova said that she had the same request to Putin (Katya and Dima simply did not have own ice rink). Then Eteri Georgievna explained Zhenya's words that the team boys were beating their heads against the ceiling - old basements were converted into new training halls. And explained that in the Сrystal normal situation with the ice for athlets, but by reducing the time for young children : "I'm completely realized this, I walk along the corridors and I'm ashamed to look into the eyes of the parents of small children, cause they don't have the opportunity to skate". And it's about Moscow, in provincial cities, the amount of ice is very limited.
But most importantly - specialists. TAT every time (even on "Ice age") said that there are not enough trainers, that it is a difficult job, that is not paid very well. So trainers are a resource too. And a limited resource, also concentrated in capitals (Moscow, Piter).
So, no - it's not about demography. It is a complex mixture of economic opportunities and inner passion and willingness to endure difficulties. Sorry, i was slightly chaotic, but I hope you understand me

 

[Elucidus]

Ugh.. all this talk about future Olympic star Also, you all seems to conveniently forgot about highly likely inevitable age raising of seniors at the next ISU congress - which practically sets in stone possible candidate for next Olympic champion to one of the Eteri's wonder trio

 

[Tolstoj]

Let’s see if being with Tutberidze will suddenly make Tursynbaeva a great skater.

Probably too soon, but if she medals here given the field would be already a huge achievement.

I'm curious to see her, the new programs, which combos she is training... we haven't heard anything really.

 

[BillNeal]

This thread moves too dam fast...

I was thinking how did this thread go from 400 something pages to 700 something pages but then I remembered how it's only ten posts (instead of fifteen) per page now...

 

[Tyranid]

Lombardia Trophy entries also out: http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent03111602.htm

Tuktamysheva and Samodurova there along with Kaori Sakomoto.

I wonder if Lena will do more CS than just one in four seasons... Finlandia and Nebelhorn still left.

 

[TGee]

It's completely wrong logic. It's not about demography. It would be so, if in every small town there would be conditions such as in Moscow. But it's not.
Figure skating is an expensive sport. Ice time rent, skates, dresses, etc. Skater parents (usually mom) should be really involved, so again it requires some prosperity. For example, Nastya Zinina (silver medal on show "Ice age. Kids") came from Rostov together with her mother who lives with her in Moscow. But this means that their dad can afford to keep them in Moscow. Believe me, not every russian family has such incomes. Heck, many can not just rent an apartment in Moscow as did Zagitova's family.
But this is only one side of the problem. Our sports infrastructure is not sufficiently developed. The first thing about which Zhenya asked the president when team met with him - new skating rink. She spoke about this at the press-conference. Then Bobrova said that she had the same request to Putin (Katya and Dima simply did not have own ice rink). Then Eteri Georgievna explained Zhenya's words that the team boys were beating their heads against the ceiling - old basements were converted into new training halls. And explained that in the Сrystal normal situation with the ice for athlets, but by reducing the time for young children : "I'm completely realized this, I walk along the corridors and I'm ashamed to look into the eyes of the parents of small children, cause they don't have the opportunity to skate". And it's about Moscow, in provincial cities, the amount of ice is very limited.
But most importantly - specialists. TAT every time (even on "Ice age") said that there are not enough trainers, that it is a difficult job, that is not paid very well. So trainers are a resource too. And a limited resource, also concentrated in capitals (Moscow, Piter).
So, no - it's not about demography. It is a complex mixture of economic opportunities and inner passion and willingness to endure difficulties. Sorry, i was slightly chaotic, but I hope you understand me

Agreed.

People forget that it is not a fully government-funded system, that many families in Russia struggle to have a middle-class income, and that housing in major cities, where jobs and training centres are located, is very expensive.

People tend to think of things as being the old way, when many of the challenges are those shared by North American and European skaters.

I also think that many people are unaware or how much infrastructure was lost in the 1990s. One of the reasons that Plushenko moved to St Petersburg to train at 9 years was not just the opportunity to train with Mishin, but also that the ice rink was being closed in his community.

Much of the current success is built on some limited reinvestments 10-15 years ago in regional sports facilities. But without further investments in facilities and complementary investments in the development of the coaches and other trainers in the regions, small regional programs only can take things so far.

Some elite training centres have been very successful in scouting talent in the regions and recruiting them to the major elite centres.

However, as Orlov notes, not every family can relocate or have family that can take responsibility for a child in Moscow or St. Petersburg. And with limited facilities, there can be trade offs between giving ice time to competitors and laying the foundation for the next generation.

The interplay between economics and drive to achieve may be somewhat different than in other countries, but it still exists.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Lombardia Trophy entries also out: http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent03111602.htm

Tuktamysheva and Samodurova there along with Kaori Sakomoto.

I wonder if Lena will do more CS than just one in four seasons... Finlandia and Nebelhorn still left.

Out of the ladies on the GP, Radionova, Medvedeva, Panenkova, and Sotskova have not yet had any assignments. There is talk of Medvedeva skating at Autumn Classic and I don't think that the full entries for that have been published yet. She very well could be there. Then that would leave three GP ladies to have 2 Challengers. I assume that they would all want one, but if Elena does not, that leaves four spots for either other GP ladies to have a second challenger competition or for non-GP ladies, such as Gubanova, Tarusina, Gulyakova, and Sakhanovich, to have at least two challengers. There are also a few events after the GP season starts for these ladies.

 

[Ziotic]

Agreed.

People forget that it is not a fully government-funded system, that many families in Russia struggle to have a middle-class income, and that housing in major cities, where jobs and training centres are located, is very expensive.

People tend to think of things as being the old way, when many of the challenges are those shared by North American and European skaters.

I also think that many people are unaware or how much infrastructure was lost in the 1990s. One of the reasons that Plushenko moved to St Petersburg to train at 9 years was not just the opportunity to train with Mishin, but also that the ice rink was being closed in his community.

Much of the current success is built on some limited reinvestments 10-15 years ago in regional sports facilities. But without further investments in facilities and complementary investments in the development of the coaches and other trainers in the regions, small regional programs only can take things so far.

Some elite training centres have been very successful in scouting talent in the regions and recruiting them to the major elite centres.

However, as Orlov notes, not every family can relocate or have family that can take responsibility for a child in Moscow or St. Petersburg. And with limited facilities, there can be trade offs between giving ice time to competitors and laying the foundation for the next generation.

The interplay between economics and drive to achieve may be somewhat different than in other countries, but it still exists.

Of course there is an economic issue, but that exists EVERYWHERE, not just Russia. At least in Russia it’s partially government funded. There are places that get very little to no funding unless they achieve great success.

I find it a bit comical to state that Russians have less opportunity based on financials when I would say most countries are in the same boat if not worse off.

 

[DeeDee18]

Of course there is an economic issue, but that exists EVERYWHERE, not just Russia. At least in Russia it’s partially government funded. There are places that get very little to no funding unless they achieve great success.

I find it a bit comical to state that Russians have less opportunity based on financials when I would say most countries are in the same boat if not worse off.

I think you forget the more political issues involved... Russia is heavily sanctioned.

 

[Shayuki]

Ugh.. all this talk about future Olympic star Also, you all seems to conveniently forgot about highly likely inevitable age raising of seniors at the next ISU congress - which practically sets in stone possible candidate for next Olympic champion to one of the Eteri's wonder trio

I think it's likely that age limit would only be increased to 16 years. As stated by Russia, 17 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

As such, early 2005s should be the latest that would be eligible. Of which the most notable would be Alena Kanysheva. Speaking of which, I really need to start thinking more highly of her. Yes, her performing abilities aren't quite there, but I don't think there's been a Russian with stronger basics in just about ever. All the usual things that can be criticized for the Russian girls, she really doesn't have. I really hope that Panova has it in her to take the next step and to bring truly competitive programs.

 

[Tolstoj]

I think you forget the more political issues involved... Russia is heavily sanctioned.

Agreed.

People forget that it is not a fully government-funded system, that many families in Russia struggle to have a middle-class income, and that housing in major cities, where jobs and training centres are located, is very expensive.

People tend to think of things as being the old way, when many of the challenges are those shared by North American and European skaters.

I also think that many people are unaware or how much infrastructure was lost in the 1990s. One of the reasons that Plushenko moved to St Petersburg to train at 9 years was not just the opportunity to train with Mishin, but also that the ice rink was being closed in his community.

Much of the current success is built on some limited reinvestments 10-15 years ago in regional sports facilities. But without further investments in facilities and complementary investments in the development of the coaches and other trainers in the regions, small regional programs only can take things so far.

Some elite training centres have been very successful in scouting talent in the regions and recruiting them to the major elite centres.

However, as Orlov notes, not every family can relocate or have family that can take responsibility for a child in Moscow or St. Petersburg. And with limited facilities, there can be trade offs between giving ice time to competitors and laying the foundation for the next generation.

The interplay between economics and drive to achieve may be somewhat different than in other countries, but it still exists.

Figure Skating IS expensive for european and north american skaters too, i remember reading few years back that Ashley Wagner kept her second work for a while because she couldn't afford all the costs, and Pedrazzini from RaiSport said another skater had these problems this year (i don't remember who, he mentioned this during the European Championships)

Sanctions don't have an impact this big to the economy, there are other reasons (we would go soo OT if we discuss them), but yes Moscow is an expensive city by Russian standards, the very centre of the city even by European standards, and the net average monthly salary in Russia is very low (for example with 500 euro you are technically living in poverty here)

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I think it's likely that age limit would only be increased to 16 years. As stated by Russia, 17 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

As such, early 2005s should be the latest that would be eligible. Of which the most notable would be Alena Kanysheva. Speaking of which, I really need to start thinking more highly of her. Yes, her performing abilities aren't quite there, but I don't think there's been a Russian with stronger basics in just about ever. All the usual things that can be criticized for the Russian girls, she really doesn't have. I really hope that Panova has it in her to take the next step and to bring truly competitive programs.

She does have incredible skating skills. I keep forgetting that because of her garbage programs. Hopefully Panova gives them better programs, but of course, she's keeping that short. I suppose it was better than the free, but I didn't like it at all. For Sinitsyna, I much preferred her free. In the short, it's so hard to see the skating skills, because like Kanysheva's programs, they're just so awful.

 

[plushyfan]

Of course there is an economic issue, but that exists EVERYWHERE, not just Russia. At least in Russia it’s partially government funded. There are places that get very little to no funding unless they achieve great success.

I find it a bit comical to state that Russians have less opportunity based on financials when I would say most countries are in the same boat if not worse off.

No, there are many sanctions against Russia. This year the ruble was weakened a lot .. But there are economic recovery in many European countries.

 

[dante]

Of course there is an economic issue, but that exists EVERYWHERE, not just Russia.

The original point was that the population is not the biggest factor. After all, Chinese skaters are not 10 times stronger than Russian.

No, there are many sanctions against Russia. This year the ruble was weakened a lot .. But there are economic recovery in many European countries.

Honestly, I haven't noticed any impact.

 

[figurefan0726]

Out of the ladies on the GP, Radionova, Medvedeva, Panenkova, and Sotskova have not yet had any assignments. There is talk of Medvedeva skating at Autumn Classic and I don't think that the full entries for that have been published yet. She very well could be there. Then that would leave three GP ladies to have 2 Challengers. I assume that they would all want one, but if Elena does not, that leaves four spots for either other GP ladies to have a second challenger competition or for non-GP ladies, such as Gubanova, Tarusina, Gulyakova, and Sakhanovich, to have at least two challengers. There are also a few events after the GP season starts for these ladies.

Medvedeva is going to compete at the Autumn Classic.

 

[figurefan0726]

Out of the ladies on the GP, Radionova, Medvedeva, Panenkova, and Sotskova have not yet had any assignments. There is talk of Medvedeva skating at Autumn Classic and I don't think that the full entries for that have been published yet. She very well could be there. Then that would leave three GP ladies to have 2 Challengers. I assume that they would all want one, but if Elena does not, that leaves four spots for either other GP ladies to have a second challenger competition or for non-GP ladies, such as Gubanova, Tarusina, Gulyakova, and Sakhanovich, to have at least two challengers. There are also a few events after the GP season starts for these ladies.

Tsurskaya has not either. I hope she gets a Challenger.

 

[invisiblespiral]

Tsurskaya has not either. I hope she gets a Challenger.

She's at Nepela, isn't she? :scratch:

 

[Orlov]

Of course there is an economic issue, but that exists EVERYWHERE, not just Russia

You said that is about demography, that ultimately gave rise to such insinuations

Even if we just look at this years ladies worlds (senior and junior) three Russian medals per population is less than 1 Canadian medal.

So, as result I started explain obvious things.