Alina Zagitova

[lusk8]

Alina has skated against Rika in the past, won from her and lost to her. If she skates clean and to her best I’m fine with wherever she lands (above or beyond Rika).

Alina is still way better in my opinion, I like her interpretation way more (and her transitions). But Rika has the same potential that she has, that is, a great foundation to build on, plus she has arrived at the tech (Juniors never really happened for her so that goes to show you, right?).

Alina has plenty of room to grow, she can add GOE to her tech by getting better at execution, when she had great execution this season she was deservedly rewarded for it. I hope she sticks with this and doesn’t make a move for a quad. With her camp I think they’ll go for a quad and a quad combo before they go for a 3A. When her 3Lz started looking big and with a weird landing in Helsinki I kept thinking, I hope they are not messing with her Lz mid season (as in “quading it up in practice”).

To me the set up trade off for adding 3A and Quads really messes with a program’s flow. I like it when it can be done like Yuzuru does it (jump stuff nearly from standstills), oh yeah, my bar is really low on that.

Ideally for me, Alina would train and learn: rotations, power and speed with Nathan, interpretation and skating skills with Yuzuru, jump saving with Javi, Yuzuru and Shoma, not showing the struggle with Yuzuru, showing the struggle and thriving with it with Shoma and having fun and thinking fast on her feet with Nathan.

 

[johnlawyer999]

This website provides valuable information for the score for each skater. It is surprised to see Alina's program is 5 point lower than Rika.
http://skatingscores.com/ladies/

 

[lusk8]

This website provides valuable information for the score for each skater. It is surprised to see Alina's program is 5 point lower than Rika.
http://skatingscores.com/ladies/

It’s actually 5 points higher, but this is taking into consideration mean score.

Meaning they are averaging her scores for the season - two competitions- and Helsinki was super low for her, if it had been on a more even keel - even if still lower than Nebelhorn - her mean would have been much higher.

 

[EdRoz]

I envy the people of Vancouver, they have such a great opportunity to see the best juniors of all time and the best adult figure skaters in one place. Alina, Rika, Liza, Satoka, Sasha, Anna, Alyona,Zhenya, Yuzuru, Shoma

USA, Canada, Europe - something needs to be done, this Russian-Japanese train leaves the station soon

 

[lesnar001]

This website provides valuable information for the score for each skater. It is surprised to see Alina's program is 5 point lower than Rika.
http://skatingscores.com/ladies/

I think the most interesting thing is the GOE data - because there are a lot more factors used in the averages. (not just 2 competition scores.)

3 things stand out....
1) 3 of Eteri's skaters (1 senior, 2 juniors) top the list --- and a 3rd junior is in 8th place overall (4th among juniors).
2) 3 Japanese skaters are in the top 10 (2 are coached by Mie Hamada)
3) Factoring out the juniors, the top 6 are 2 Russians and 4 Japanese.

Eteri and Japanese programs are very different, but obviously they are both what the judges are looking for.
(Provided that the skaters perform them well).

At least thats what I take away from the numbers.

 

[johnlawyer999]

It’s actually 5 points higher, but this is taking into consideration mean score.

Meaning they are averaging her scores for the season - two competitions- and Helsinki was super low for her, if it had been on a more even keel - even if still lower than Nebelhorn - her mean would have been much higher.

I was comparing the base value of their program. It means if both performance are equal, which in reality is impossible, then Rika is in advantage.

 

[lusk8]

I was comparing the base value of their program. It means if both performance are equal, which in reality is impossible, then Rika is in advantage.

No one really gets BV, they get BV plus GOE, which can be a plus or a minus if execution is bad.

How much of a plus it is dependes on the BV of the element in question of course but it is still a gamble. Otherwise no one would judge anything and the highest BV without falls would win.

In the current system how you execute matters even more than BV, beyond just being clean. On top of that you have PCS which varies a lot from skater to skater (and even on the same skater depending on the judges across different competitions).

I personally don’t pay that much attention to BV, I look at actual TES (which is BV with GOE), I grant you that this is a very complex equation but I think it’s somewhat fair to other skaters otherwise why would someone with less BV even strap on their boots.

 

[flanker]

It’s actually 5 points higher, but this is taking into consideration mean score.

Meaning they are averaging her scores for the season - two competitions- and Helsinki was super low for her, if it had been on a more even keel - even if still lower than Nebelhorn - her mean would have been much higher.

Also remember Japan Open, which is not counted for it is not ISU competition. 158.50 and 159.18 are the basic score for her. I know at Helsinki it was worse but remember that nearly everyone (notable exception was Stanislava) skated there singnificantly worse than anywhere else.

 

[lesnar001]

This website provides valuable information for the score for each skater. It is surprised to see Alina's program is 5 point lower than Rika.
http://skatingscores.com/ladies/

I read your original post wrong too! Then again I was so distracted in the BV score of 74.65 at the top of the list I couldn't comprehend the rest

 

[johnlawyer999]

No one really gets BV, they get BV plus GOE, which can be a plus or a minus if execution is bad.

How much of a plus it is dependes on the BV of the element in question of course but it is still a gamble. Otherwise no one would judge anything and the highest BV without falls would win.

In the current system how you execute matters even more than BV, beyond just being clean. On top of that you have PCS which varies a lot from skater to skater (and even on the same skater depending on the judges across different competitions).

I personally don’t pay that much attention to BV, I look at actual TES (which is BV with GOE), I grant you that this is a very complex equation but I think it’s somewhat fair to other skaters otherwise why would someone with less BV even strap on their boots.

Thats what I mean by my assumption that both have the same performance... e.g. equal GOE, and PCS. The base value to me indicates the difficulty of the program. Now, do I really worry about Alina? Not really, I am quite confident Alina excels in her performance, hence，high GOE and PCS.

 

[Fluture]

Also remember Japan Open, which is not counted for it is not ISU competition. 158.50 and 159.18 are the basic score for her. I know at Helsinki it was worse but remember that nearly everyone (notable exception was Stanislava) staked there singnificantly worse than anywhere else.

Honestly, I know Alina is not the type to make excuses and so we probably shouldn‘t either but even Yuzuru Hanyu somewhat complained (in the way Yuzu does... politely pointing it out, I guess) that the ice quality was really bad there. In the Helsinki thread (I think?) there is even a video of him doing a jump and the sounds the blade makes on the ice is just horrible, really clunky and loud as if he was landing on metal instead of ice. He’s actually growling in frustration, too. That would explain why so many skaters struggled. Alina‘s 1Lo in the SP definitely looked like a fluke. Her shaky landings in the FP were probably a mixture of her being nervous due to not optimal SP and the bad ice. I think by Rostelecom next week we‘ll see 158+ Alina again. It will be interesting to see her and Rika battle it out at GPF and Worlds. Alina always does best when she‘s got a serious rival and since this year is somewhat of a transitional period for Zhenya and we don‘t know how much she‘ll actually be able to compete with Alina, Rika should be motivation enough. Her scoring potential is HUGE but so is Alina‘s. That means it will come down to who is cleanest. It will be really thrilling to see! I‘m excited and I think Alina is definitely up for the challenge. Just wait for Rostelecom Cup and we‘ll see her fire again.

 

[lusk8]

Thats what I mean by my assumption that both have the same performance... e.g. equal GOE, and PCS. The base value to me indicates the difficulty of the program. Now, do I really worry about Alina? Not really, I am quite confident Alina excels in her performance, hence，high GOE and PCS.

Oh I completely get you point, it should be like that too to some extend. That’s why they probably even list the intended jumps then confirm it and the skater can shift things around and submit a changed protocol. It is at least a measured of intended performance and acquired skill, you’ll only put in jumps you actually intend to do and can perform.

I think the GP Final will give us a nice great look into how everyone is doing with the same judging panel and criteria. We should get a nice tight (6 skaters only) field.

Alina is not the highest BV, and not even the only one currently performing her combo in the circuit, but I still expect her to beat higher tech content on the strength of her performance and high difficulty entries.

She decided to challenge herself in a different way this year, focusing on quality, it’s a great goal for a second year senior career. She had such an outstanding first one that’s hard to wrap my head around the fact that this is only her second year as a senior. Hanyu won no Worlds or GP Finals in his first senior year, it took him 3 years as a senior to win Gold but when he did it he won GP, WC and Olympics all in a row. He’s got two WC Golds and 4 GP Final Golds besides his back to back Olympic Golds.

Alina already arrived onto the scene on the top floor (GP Final Gold, Olympic Gold) which is amazing but I’m sure puts even more unintended pressure on our little perfectionist.

I cut her a ton of slack if, as she adjust to new quality goals, physical shape and even changing tech landscape she has a few hiccups. To me this season is being a season of learning and looking into long term goals and potential. Even as we have amazing 15 and 16 years old skaters arriving in the Senior scene we also have 21 years old (and even older in the men) alive and kicking some major ice dust.

It is inspiring (the younger and the older) and I hope that both inspire Alina as she proceeds on her personal journey as a skater.

 

[lusk8]

Honestly, I know Alina is not the type to make excuses and so we probably shouldn‘t either but even Yuzuru Hanyu somewhat complained (in the way Yuzu does... politely pointing it out, I guess) that the ice quality was really bad there. In the Helsinki thread (I think?) there is even a video of him doing a jump and the sounds the blade makes on the ice is just horrible, really clunky and loud as if he was landing on metal instead of ice. He’s actually growling in frustration, too. That would explain why so many skaters struggled. Alina‘s 1Lo in the SP definitely looked like a fluke. Her shaky landings in the FP were probably a mixture of her being nervous due to not optimal SP and the bad ice. I think by Rostelecom next week we‘ll see 158+ Alina again. It will be interesting to see her and Rika battle it out at GPF and Worlds. Alina always does best when she‘s got a serious rival and since this year is somewhat of a transitional period for Zhenya and we don‘t know how much she‘ll actually be able to compete with Alina, Rika should be motivation enough. Her scoring potential is HUGE but so is Alina‘s. That means it will come down to who is cleanest. It will be really thrilling to see! I‘m excited and I think Alina is definitely up for the challenge. Just wait for Rostelecom Cup and we‘ll see her fire again.

Helsinki was a great learning experience for Alina, what she survived with her SP, the major miss of a 3-3, is unbelievable. It’s the equivalent of a skater doing a SP with two single 2As in a row and only a single 3 jump. That’s in BV. To survive that it takes a strong skater and a flawless execution of all the rest.

Her FS was not a redemptive skate but she did it without any major mistakes.

Alina is a strong skater and while her first GP was not the strong outing she wanted (and had gotten before during this very season) it was something she can be proud of, because not many people can fight through that and ger her scores.

My wishes for her is that she has two skates at Rostelecom Cup that she can be proud of.

I want her to be super happy!!!

 

[j00mla]

https://coub.com/view/1hqxyk

 

[TheBallerina]

Alina already arrived onto the scene on the top floor (GP Final Gold, Olympic Gold) which is amazing but I’m sure puts even more unintended pressure on our little perfectionist.

I cut her a ton of slack if, as she adjust to new quality goals, physical shape and even changing tech landscape she has a few hiccups. To me this season is being a season of learning and looking into long term goals and potential. Even as we have amazing 15 and 16 years old skaters arriving in the Senior scene we also have 21 years old (and even older in the men) alive and kicking some major ice dust.

It is inspiring (the younger and the older) and I hope that both inspire Alina as she proceeds on her personal journey as a skater.

I totally agree with your point, lusk8:thumbsup:

I think Alina's team is making the right choice for her. She's having many obstacles on this journey, she has a lot of pressure on her shoulders and she grew up a lot, even Yuzuru noticed that she is no longer a child, but a young lady, and is still adapting to her new body. It's amazing how good she is, given this circumstances, and in my opinion, the one thing that separates her from the others, which helps her keep her jumps, is her amazing jumping technique. She does not have technique problems, both her flip and lutz are amazing (quality that is so rarely seen), and she is going through a growth spurt AND still working and improving her jumping flow and height. It's impressive :eeking::luv17:

Focusing on the quality during these times, when the scoring system prefers quality over high BV, is the right thing to do. She still has one of the highest BV values and she improved her components a lot.

The GPF will be spectacular, undoubtedly the best will win, and whatever the outcome will be I will still know Alina is on the right track, and her future potential is huge.:luv17:

https://coub.com/view/1hqxyk

I love this :luv17: I noticed their warm interactions at every competition from this season, and this amazing coach-skater relationship is another thing that I am sure will help Alina a lot in the long run :thumbsup:

 

[RainMaker]

Alina has skated against Rika in the past, won from her and lost to her. If she skates clean and to her best I’m fine with wherever she lands (above or beyond Rika).

Alina is still way better in my opinion, I like her interpretation way more (and her transitions). But Rika has the same potential that she has, that is, a great foundation to build on, plus she has arrived at the tech (Juniors never really happened for her so that goes to show you, right?).

Alina has plenty of room to grow, she can add GOE to her tech by getting better at execution, when she had great execution this season she was deservedly rewarded for it. I hope she sticks with this and doesn’t make a move for a quad. With her camp I think they’ll go for a quad and a quad combo before they go for a 3A. When her 3Lz started looking big and with a weird landing in Helsinki I kept thinking, I hope they are not messing with her Lz mid season (as in “quading it up in practice”).

To me the set up trade off for adding 3A and Quads really messes with a program’s flow. I like it when it can be done like Yuzuru does it (jump stuff nearly from standstills), oh yeah, my bar is really low on that.

Ideally for me, Alina would train and learn: rotations, power and speed with Nathan, interpretation and skating skills with Yuzuru, jump saving with Javi, Yuzuru and Shoma, not showing the struggle with Yuzuru, showing the struggle and thriving with it with Shoma and having fun and thinking fast on her feet with Nathan.

Rafael Arutyunyan, did a interview, saying he be in Moscow for a couple of week, and said, he will bring Nathan to Moscow to train for Grand Prix France, Maybe Team Alina can hire him, for a couple days to work on her Jumps. I think Raf, is one of the most elite jump coach in figure skating

 

[EdRoz]

Rafael Arutyunyan, did a interview, saying he be in Moscow for a couple of week, and said, he will bring Nathan to Moscow to train for Grand Prix France, Maybe Team Alina can hire him, for a couple days to work on her Jumps. I think Raf, is one of the most elite jump coach in figure skating

Dudakov is not one of the most elite jump coach, he is most elite jump coach, nr.1 at this moment..
Eteri team have everything, girls just have to show what they can do, cleanly and calmly

 

[lusk8]

On the subject of other coaches, Rafael as a case in point, he would be a great fit for someone like Alina. She has the work ethic and the correct mindset to benefit from working with someone like him, plus he speaks Russian. He likes to work with people long term and usually prefers at least a two year commitment (it should take about that time to really make an impact and change stuff), that said he does clinics and takes people on for shorter stints with more fixed goals while they are still under the tutelage of other coaches.

Anyway, Alina would be any coaches' dream right now, she is great and can work hard, I bet she would be someone any other coach in the circuit would love to work with. During Japan Open a Japanese twitter user that attended the show mentioned that Lambiel talked to her quite a bit as well as they were all positioned on the side of the rink during the show (for Carnival On Ice).

Kolyada did a summer clinic with Rafa and, when interviewed about it, mentioned that Rafa suggested he come over to both him and his coach Valentina as they were all ridding the bus together back at the Olympic Games. Nothing is really impossible but in the middle of a season I would think it unlikely and not as useful to make such a move (get a bunch of new cooks in the kitchen as you are serving out meals).

If such a collaboration were to happen it makes sense to do so during the holidays or during an extended break from competitions.

Alina is super young, and still in school, to have the mobility of the older (+18) skaters, but if it ever really makes sense for her I'm sure she'll work around to make it happen. She trains with the top coaching team in Russia, there are probably 2 or 3 other teams located abroad that could offer her interesting contributions to her career at different levels. I for one would love for her to do a clinic in Japan to further her Skating Skills as the Japanese skaters have, as a group, skills that I really admire and that someone with Alina's talent can take up and really run with.

All coaches, even those stationed abroad, coach younger skaters (in a permanent or collaborative temporary basis), but for the younger skaters it takes more adjustments than just finding the money to do it, it is a life change at a moment in your life when you are still very much tethered so to speak to the "mother ship".

Time will show us what will or will not happen.

 

[EdRoz]

On the subject of other coaches, Rafael as a case in point, he would be a great fit for someone like Alina. She has the work ethic and the correct mindset to benefit from working with someone like him, plus he speaks Russian. He likes to work with people long term and usually prefers at least a two year commitment (it should take about that time to really make an impact and change stuff), that said he does clinics and takes people on for shorter stints with more fixed goals while they are still under the tutelage of other coaches.

Anyway, Alina would be any coaches' dream right now, she is great and can work hard, I bet she would be someone any other coach in the circuit would love to work with. During Japan Open a Japanese twitter user that attended the show mentioned that Lambiel talked to her quite a bit as well as they were all positioned on the side of the rink during the show (for Carnival On Ice).

Kolyada did a summer clinic with Rafa and, when interviewed about it, mentioned that Rafa suggested he come over to both him and his coach Valentina as they were all ridding the bus together back at the Olympic Games. Nothing is really impossible but in the middle of a season I would think it unlikely and not as useful to make such a move (get a bunch of new cooks in the kitchen as you are serving out meals).

If such a collaboration were to happen it makes sense to do so during the holidays or during an extended break from competitions.

Alina is super young, and still in school, to have the mobility of the older (+18) skaters, but if it ever really makes sense for her I'm sure she'll work around to make it happen. She trains with the top coaching team in Russia, there are probably 2 or 3 other teams located abroad that could offer her interesting contributions to her career at different levels. I for one would love for her to do a clinic in Japan to further her Skating Skills as the Japanese skaters have, as a group, skills that I really admire and that someone with Alina's talent can take up and really run with.

All coaches, even those stationed abroad, coach younger skaters (in a permanent or collaborative temporary basis), but for the younger skaters it takes more adjustments than just finding the money to do it, it is a life change at a moment in your life when you are still very much tethered so to speak to the "mother ship".

Time will show us what will or will not happen.

Kolyada bad advertising for Rafael

change of coach —we'll see next summer, if nothing changes, then Eteri should be solved with girls - four adult top skaters are too much, she can have a maximum of two top girls, two will have to leave , reason - the interests of other coaches and schools

 

[lusk8]

Kolyada bad advertising for Rafael

change of coach —we'll see next summer, if nothing changes, then Eteri should be solved with girls - four adult top skaters are too much, she can have a maximum of two top girls, two will have to leave , reason - the interests of other coaches and schools

I'm laughing too hard because, even as I wrote that paragraph citing Kolyada's interview, I was thinking the same thing, "now it's not looking like such a great promo". Like I said, you have to be careful about your timing as you place new cooks in the kitchen, at first things don't get necessarily better, and if you have no time to "waste" then it can be a not ideal move.

I agree with you, it is going to get crowded at Eteri's camp, so far it is looking great for Alina, she is getting first class treatment. She is their only Russian senior so the choice is more clear, but I also think they are really invested on helping her make her transition from puberty and get her settled into a new high performing normal. With her obvious talent (and what she's already won) she is quite an asset to them, and I'm sure the "other coaches' circling the water" bit is not going by unnoticed by them either.

We'll have to see how it all settles down next year after the current season finishes up.