2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Mrs. P]

Question: What does Anna Pogogrilaya being at Golden Spin mean for her nationals qualification? It would be kinda weird for her to do a Challenger Event but be unable to be at Nationals!

I have no clue if she'll actually end up making it there (since Liza was on the entry list and obviously she won't be there) but I hope she does cause I miss her!

 

[melgirl25]

This. I sign under every single word.
When Zhenya was winning everything, and literally everything, and making mistakes once or twice a season, people were nonstop complaining about how everything about her is horrible. I am glad I am not the only user who remembers the endless threads: "Zhenya's wrong edges" (which were called less than now), "Zhenya's small muscled jumps" (which, except for 2017-18, were not smaller than her current jumps), "Zhenya's bad programs" (which enabled her to score high, had lots of level 4s and highlighted her strengths), "Zhenya two footed a jump, she is done!!!!" (compare with now - Zhenya makes 5-6 mistakes across two programs and everybody screams how she improved and how she will skate for the next two Olympic cycles).

This actually makes me wonder where the western audiences want to see the russian ladies, because while Zhenya was winning, people were overall negative. Now that she is losing, people love her and her skating.
Sorry if I offended anyone, it is just how it looks.

I am from North America and never had problems with how she skated. However, I was never looking for problems in her skating either or knew what to look for. I skated a long time ago and didn't remember the right edge of a lutz until I read all the critique about her lutz! I have always admired the way Russians skate - more so than North American skaters. I feel the same about Russian gymnasts.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Nothing. She cannot make nationals unless she's substituted in because she is not skating at any cup events. But she's already said she's not planning to compete at nationals and isn't ready, so I'm not sure why she's here.

 

[theharleyquinn]

This. I sign under every single word.
When Zhenya was winning everything, and literally everything, and making mistakes once or twice a season, people were nonstop complaining about how everything about her is horrible. I am glad I am not the only user who remembers the endless threads: "Zhenya's wrong edges" (which were called less than now), "Zhenya's small muscled jumps" (which, except for 2017-18, were not smaller than her current jumps), "Zhenya's bad programs" (which enabled her to score high, had lots of level 4s and highlighted her strengths), "Zhenya two footed a jump, she is done!!!!" (compare with now - Zhenya makes 5-6 mistakes across two programs and everybody screams how she improved and how she will skate for the next two Olympic cycles).

This actually makes me wonder where the western audiences want to see the russian ladies, because while Zhenya was winning, people were overall negative. Now that she is losing, people love her and her skating.
Sorry if I offended anyone, it is just how it looks.

Is this not cyclical? Even though backlash against Alina was focused more on components than tech, people reacted to her late-season dominance similarly. A lot of this has to do with storytelling. I get the impression that people like the narrative of Zhenya leaving and some with philosophical opposition to Eteri's coaching see the switch as validation of that opinion.

Now in Zhenya's case, people hadn't had enough time to accept the changes in the ladies' field that had been building post-Sochi when she switched to seniors. There were a lot of gripes about her breaking Yuna's records, but there wasn't much noise when Alina broke Zhenya's. I'd bet that if Eteri's juniors were on the senior scene this season, a lot of lingering coolness towards Alina would soften up because she'd be packaged as the more expressive, sympathetic senior skater compared to her younger peers, just as Zhenya was when Alina came up. There's this weird thing about wanting to see someone be humbled or fallible in this sport.

 

[DenissVFan]

Question: What does Anna Pogogrilaya being at Golden Spin mean for her nationals qualification? It would be kinda weird for her to do a Challenger Event but be unable to be at Nationals!

I have no clue if she'll actually end up making it there (since Liza was on the entry list and obviously she won't be there) but I hope she does cause I miss her!

According to her ISU bio, Alexandra Avstriyskaya competed in 4 Challengers but not in Russian senior nationals (not just once but, apparently, at all), so it's possible for Anna P. to compete internationally but not at nationals, as strange as it sounds.

 

[Mrs. P]

According to her ISU bio, Alexandra Avstriyskaya competed in 4 Challengers but not in Russian senior nationals (not just once but, apparently, at all), so it's possible for Anna P. to compete internationally but not at nationals, as strange as it sounds.

Thanks for the info! Well, still glad for the opportunity to see her once!

 

[katymay]

Travin is not an angel. He is obsessed with Medvedeva and not in the best possible way....but there are facts which are facts, at least for me. Some years ago on GS there was a huge wave of criticism towards Medvedeva from non-Russians mostly North Americans. There was a weekly fresh thread about her "issues". Now, suddenly non-Russians (I cannot say the same ones or not) have become very supportive when her skating has deteriorated. They find non-existing improvements, they say that she has better programs, they talk "long-term". I say, this is nonsense. No matter what the reasons are she and her programs so far are just a shadow of her former self. And judges see it giving her low scores that she never received before. I don't believe that Orser is a top ladies coach - his recent track record with Tursynbaeva and Daleman is not convincing. Eteri, on the other hand, is not a good men's coach - her track record there is quite unimpressive as well. Conclusion? May be Zhenya made an impulsive move and she has to do more now vs. if she stayed with Eteri. I believe in her - I still think that she is an outstanding athlete. I think that she will win over Rika in France to turn the momentum in her favor. But the criticism toward her has the reasons. Travin just raises the temperature to attract more viewers. Fundamentally, I agree with a lot of what he says like that Liza was shamelessly put under Satoko just 2 days ago.

Agree, I don't think Orser is a top ladies coach. I think Yuna, for example, was better before Orser. Not sure though that Eteri would have made a difference either, Zhenya's jumps just are not what they used to be. I don't know why jumps erode over time for most skaters, but they do. (Exception perhaps: Irina Slutskaya). The list of skaters who had fantastic jumps at 14, 15 but not after 18 is a long one, and many of those girls had the same body pre and post puberty. (Sasha Cohen for example). I would love to know why this happens, because I really do not know. (again, presuming the same body type pre and post puberty) But for the vast majority of skaters in this higher tech era, (6 or 7 triples, and 3x3x) longevity just doesn't happen.

 

[Ziotic]

Agree, I don't think Orser is a top ladies coach. I think Yuna, for example, was better before Orser. Not sure though that Eteri would have made a difference either, Zhenya's jumps just are not what they used to be. I don't know why jumps erode over time for most skaters, but they do. (Exception perhaps: Irina Slutskaya). The list of skaters who had fantastic jumps at 14, 15 but not after 18 is a long one, and many of those girls had the same body pre and post puberty. (Sasha Cohen for example). I would love to know why this happens, because I really do not know. (again, presuming the same body type pre and post puberty) But for the vast majority of skaters in this higher tech era, (6 or 7 triples, and 3x3x) longevity just doesn't happen.

Even though the body make look the same, it has changed, it’s the fundamental development of humans.

 

[melgirl25]

Agree, I don't think Orser is a top ladies coach. I think Yuna, for example, was better before Orser. Not sure though that Eteri would have made a difference either, Zhenya's jumps just are not what they used to be. I don't know why jumps erode over time for most skaters, but they do. (Exception perhaps: Irina Slutskaya). The list of skaters who had fantastic jumps at 14, 15 but not after 18 is a long one, and many of those girls had the same body pre and post puberty. (Sasha Cohen for example). I would love to know why this happens, because I really do not know. (again, presuming the same body type pre and post puberty) But for the vast majority of skaters in this higher tech era, (6 or 7 triples, and 3x3x) longevity just doesn't happen.

https://www.facebook.com/TheSkating...ination-do-you-give-her-the-/595743514175284/

Have you seen this double axel?

From what I understand Zhenya jumped more with her arms (less legs) and this technique worked for a while but as she got older her jumps got less attractive. It can also lead to more injuries. Someone like Alina, jumps more with her legs. Liza is a perfect of example of all legs.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

Agree, I don't think Orser is a top ladies coach. I think Yuna, for example, was better before Orser. Not sure though that Eteri would have made a difference either, Zhenya's jumps just are not what they used to be. I don't know why jumps erode over time for most skaters, but they do. (Exception perhaps: Irina Slutskaya). The list of skaters who had fantastic jumps at 14, 15 but not after 18 is a long one, and many of those girls had the same body pre and post puberty. (Sasha Cohen for example). I would love to know why this happens, because I really do not know. (again, presuming the same body type pre and post puberty) But for the vast majority of skaters in this higher tech era, (6 or 7 triples, and 3x3x) longevity just doesn't happen.

Agreed with Ziotic. Even if someone hasn't visibly undergone a major change during puberty, women's weight distribution and center of gravity do change nonetheless, which can throw off a lot of things for a figure skater. I imagine as you get older you're dealing with the lasting effects of injuries sustained over time as well, which might force you to make tweaks to your technique.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Maybe you guys should take a time out and just enjoy some Pink Panther

Being a figure skating fan doesn’t always have to be about these divisive opinions. It can be fun too. Thanks Anna :agree:

 

[andromache]

https://www.facebook.com/TheSkating...ination-do-you-give-her-the-/595743514175284/

Have you seen this double axel?

From what I understand Zhenya jumped more with her arms (less legs) and this technique worked for a while but as she got older her jumps got less attractive. It can also lead to more injuries. Someone like Alina, jumps more with her legs. Liza is a perfect of example of all legs.

This is my understanding as well.

It is also my understanding that leg-jumping is preferred technique precisely because it will survive body changes more than using your arms will. (I think this was also part of the problem with Yulia's jumps once she grew a bit.)

Ladies like Liza T. and Tonya Harding have/had huge, beautiful jumps because they use their legs to get it all done. Both ladies also have body types that are considered less than ideal for jumping - since the general idea seems to be that the smaller and thinner you are, the easier it is to get yourself into the air and the faster you rotate. And yet both ladies are/were phenomenal jumpers.

 

[Max Millennial]

Just a side note.
As far as i know - as i chatted with the guy several times in the youtube chat between or before the competitions - the "Fanpage Zagitova" seems to be an overall polite, educated and nice person. I also never seen him engage in any major BS.
The streams are illegal, yep, wonder why anyone is even surprised by that. Of course it is. But then it is the only option for many people to watch FS live so I will not condemn here.
Last but not least, the channel owner can hardly control the chat. If you people blame the channel for people being stupid in the chat, please add Ted to the "hate" list, because the chat during junior grand prix events used to be really awful. It is pretty much impossible to moderate such chats real time, due to sheer amount of comments people write in like 5 different languages.

I really see no reason to randomly hate a person based on some entirely random rumor posted by a random poster.

Первый канал geoblocked?

 

[DenissVFan]

Anastasia Gubanova, Anastasia Gracheva, and ANNA POGORILAYA has been added to the Golden Spin of Zagreb. http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat03108972.htm

Gracheva is listed as a sub.

 

[hippomoomin]

You made a valid point. The same thing happened to Yulia. When she was winning, people criticized her lack of musicality, artistry and emotion if not her flip/Luz. Then she started to struggle...After she left Eteri with rumors of her eating disorder, she was praised for her artistry, and Eteri became the evil stepmother...

I never thought Yulia was artistic skater, both before and after she left Eteri,

This. I sign under every single word.
When Zhenya was winning everything, and literally everything, and making mistakes once or twice a season, people were nonstop complaining about how everything about her is horrible. I am glad I am not the only user who remembers the endless threads: "Zhenya's wrong edges" (which were called less than now), "Zhenya's small muscled jumps" (which, except for 2017-18, were not smaller than her current jumps), "Zhenya's bad programs" (which enabled her to score high, had lots of level 4s and highlighted her strengths), "Zhenya two footed a jump, she is done!!!!" (compare with now - Zhenya makes 5-6 mistakes across two programs and everybody screams how she improved and how she will skate for the next two Olympic cycles).

This actually makes me wonder where the western audiences want to see the russian ladies, because while Zhenya was winning, people were overall negative. Now that she is losing, people love her and her skating.
Sorry if I offended anyone, it is just how it looks.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

 

[moriel]

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/zhenachampion/2244184.html

just leaving this here
some baby Zhenya and baby Yulia for you all

 

[Sugar Coated]

I think its human nature to root for the underdog and especially to hope for a comeback story. And the thing about being "king of the hill" - everyone is trying to tear you down. You rivals want to dethrone you and the rest of the world wants to pick apart and criticize everything.

On a slightly different note, I'm wondering why people use Turzynbaeva's career in criticizing Orser? She started with Eteri and then moved to Orser and back to Eteri, correct? I'm not sure how long she was with each of them but she was 11th in the world under Orser. She had some really good skates early this year, but that was only a couple months after moving back to Eteri, and I don't see her breaking into the top ten in the world this year. Just saying I'm not sure why everyone thinks that Orser was so bad for her. Also, Daleman earned a bronze at Worlds while under Orser and also has an Olympic gold medal (even if she underperformed she still a gold medalist).

 

[atsumiri]

The list of skaters who had fantastic jumps at 14, 15 but not after 18 is a long one, and many of those girls had the same body pre and post puberty. (Sasha Cohen for example). I would love to know why this happens, because I really do not know. (again, presuming the same body type pre and post puberty) But for the vast majority of skaters in this higher tech era, (6 or 7 triples, and 3x3x) longevity just doesn't happen.

It is also relevant to motivation, concentration, priorities. Mental focus and ability to light yourselves on fire to make it work. particularly after some success.
All of which makes it really hard to stay on top for a long time.

 

[[email protected]]

Agree, I don't think Orser is a top ladies coach. I think Yuna, for example, was better before Orser. Not sure though that Eteri would have made a difference either, Zhenya's jumps just are not what they used to be. I don't know why jumps erode over time for most skaters, but they do. (Exception perhaps: Irina Slutskaya). The list of skaters who had fantastic jumps at 14, 15 but not after 18 is a long one, and many of those girls had the same body pre and post puberty. (Sasha Cohen for example). I would love to know why this happens, because I really do not know. (again, presuming the same body type pre and post puberty) But for the vast majority of skaters in this higher tech era, (6 or 7 triples, and 3x3x) longevity just doesn't happen.

I have a different theory. They had a strategic review: "what do we need to get back on top?" Quads and 3A were put out of question. Then the decision was to focus on 2A which had been the only issue and to bring 3 lutzes working on the edge at the same time. The idea was: "we are still the leaders in pcs, Zagitova won't have the same backloading advantage, lutz was called ! at the worst so that the game is worth playing". The fundamental mistake in this approach was made because Orser is not the top ladies' coach and Eteri is. Eteri's team knows how to milk every possible point and still they did not bring more than 1 lutz to Evgeniya's programs. And this 1 lutz was her first single jump in the free. One of the most obvious explanations is that Medvedeva is not comfortable doing lutzes and her edge is getting worse towards the end of the program when she is getting tired. Now, she had a pause, she had an injury, she moved to a different country and completely new environment. I think it was a very unwise decision to bring 3 lutzes to her layout under such circumstances.

France will tell a lot. I see 3 scenarios, 2 positive and 1 negative: 1) she nails lutzes with not more than 1 ! (second one in the free program) and she skates clean. Then she is a hero and Orser is a visionary 2) she reverts to her former layout with 1 lutz. Then she is smart and Orser is wise to admit mistakes and to adjust 3) she keeps her layout and gets "business as usual": 2! and 1e. Then they are both stubborn and would rather lose than admit that they were wrong.