2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[R.D.]

Wow, I just read that Gracie Gold made a comeback(!) at the latest Grand Prix event...

Now, I didn’t watch her skate - I have no real desire to - but I did see the outcome/result. There’s the optimist’s and the pessimist’s view of looking at this. On one hand, one can say she got out there, and considering the road behind her that’s a victory in itself, regardless of the performance or the result. On the other, one may question the reasoning behind showing up if she was only at 30-40% capacity. Personally, I’m not going to ask questions, it is what it is. But whichever way one sees it, the reality remains: it will be a long, rough road ahead, should she choose to travel it. And her mental response to this and her state of mind moving forward will be just as critical (if not more so) as her physical fitness.

So let the chips fall. I’m out.

 

[KatGrace1925]

I would like to point out it's neither the fans nor the critics' job to boost someone's self-esteem by being positive or refraining from criticism. It's the athlete's responsibility to have an internal locus of control. I'm tired of hearing that we shouldn't comment on an athletes performance because of xyz.

There's commenting that is constructive and then there are demeaning comments. I haven't seen any horrible ones on here but I have seen some pretty awful demeaning comments on youtube and twitter. That is why I like golden skate better the commenting is usually pointing out things that are true and more constructive. Unfortunately there are people commenting on Gracie who don't care about her struggles on other social media and I really hope her team is making sure she doesn't see those comments.

 

[KatGrace1925]

It took a lot of strength for her to go out there today, so bravo to her for mustering that strength. There is nothing to lose in the free program, so I hope she will skate her heart out and forget about the scores and placement. Next stop after tomorrow is Nationals, and it will be lovely to have her there.

I don't think she had nerves due to scores and placement, the nerves were likely due to the fact she knew all eyes were on her to see how she would do. Unfortunately just being who she is she has pressure on her. That pressure doesn't lift just because she doesn't have to worry about placement.

 

[bobbob]

Many of you are acting like Gracie's poor performance was to be expected. Many of the same people put Gracie in their top 6, maybe even top 3 in some cases in the predictions thread. How can you expect this performance and put her in your top 6?

Personally, I agree that the result was to be expected. Based on the practice yesterday, I think her performance today is about representative of her current skating level. She has no triples, she can do the double jumps other than the axel. Which is fine, I mean I can't do a double axel either.

But for someone competing in an elite event? This is mind-boggling that she even got chosen. The US has a dearth of female skaters certainly, but if the bar is to be able to land a double axel, we certainly have many... This shows the problem with our system.

This is not an attack on Gracie. I commend her on coming back and skating for her joy of skating. But on the USFS and everyone else who expected her to be competitive, that is not reasonable. Let her prove herself first organically and not put undue pressure and expectation on her. If you know Gracie does not handle pressure and poor results well, and you know she is not ready for a GP where the scores are high, why put her there?

 

[KatGrace1925]

The only thing that left me surprised was the planned layout she submitted. That had me thinking she was a bit farther along than she actually is. It's hard to see the lutz-toe being competition-ready, even though it is planned for both programs.

I wonder if she's landed some in practice. She seemed to lose speed going into it which made it obvious she would have to double it. I think the planned layout is what they're working toward more than what they have now. Maybe she has done some good run throughs in practice as well, it's different in competition.

 

[halulupu]

Her first event back was always going to be bumpy, no matter how prepared she was. Obviously she still has work to do, but I believe she's only going to get better from here. Her confidence will continue to grow as she competes and gets her timing on the jumps back.

Well bumpy is very nicely said

 

[KatGrace1925]

Many of you are acting like Gracie's poor performance was to be expected. Many of the same people put Gracie in their top 6, maybe even top 3 in some cases in the predictions thread. How can you expect this performance and put her in your top 6?

Personally, I agree that the result was to be expected. Based on the practice yesterday, I think her performance today is about representative of her current skating level. She has no triples, she can do the double jumps other than the axel. Which is fine, I mean I can't do a double axel either.

But for someone competing in an elite event? This is mind-boggling that she even got chosen. The US has a dearth of female skaters certainly, but if the bar is to be able to land a double axel, we certainly have many... This shows the problem with our system.

This is not an attack on Gracie. I commend her on coming back and skating for her joy of skating. But on the USFS and everyone else who expected her to be competitive, that is not reasonable. Let her prove herself first organically and not put undue pressure and expectation on her. If you know Gracie does not handle pressure and poor results well, and you know she is not ready for a GP where the scores are high, why put her there?

My prediction had her in last place, I am a huge fan but I didn't expect her to be ready. The USFS don't really have the biggest say in most grand prix assignments. She submitted for comeback with the ISU to get a grand prix assignment herself and Russia invited her. I think the hope was for her to be more ready but it does take time. I expected low 40s. I do think she can do the double axel and that she can do triples, nerves do come into play and she has all eyes on her. She had the same expression she used to get when she was at her prime going into those jumps, she would slow down then pop them in the past even when she could do them so I believe what we saw isn't up to what she's been practicing for.

 

[princessalica]

I wonder if she's landed some in practice. She seemed to lose speed going into it which made it obvious she would have to double it. I think the planned layout is what they're working toward more than what they have now. Maybe she has done some good run throughs in practice as well, it's different in competition.

Yesterday, I watched the twitter feed of her practice and she did land some triples, not during her program (she makred those jumps), but I swear she landed a triple lutz combo. So this skate was rough, but its also below where she is capable of skating in her current training condition.

 

[Charlotte 71]

I don't think she had nerves due to scores and placement, the nerves were likely due to the fact she knew all eyes were on her to see how she would do. Unfortunately just being who she is she has pressure on her. That pressure doesn't lift just because she doesn't have to worry about placement.

I'm not saying the pressure will lift entirely, but the first and likely the hardest step is out of the way now. The suspense is over - everyone knows now that she is not back to her previous level technically. So now maybe she can do what she said she came back to do - skate for herself and express those feelings in her heart and soul that motivated her to come back. She has a beautiful long program, so I hope she will skate it with conviction and be proud of her effort.

 

[bobbob]

My prediction had her in last place, I am a huge fan but I didn't expect her to be ready. The USFS don't really have the biggest say in most grand prix assignments. She submitted for comeback with the ISU to get a grand prix assignment herself and Russia invited her. I think the hope was for her to be more ready but it does take time. I expected low 40s. I do think she can do the double axel and that she can do triples, nerves do come into play and she has all eyes on her. She had the same expression she used to get when she was at her prime going into those jumps, she would slow down then pop them in the past even when she could do them so I believe what we saw isn't up to what she's been practicing for.

Hmm...how do GP assignments work exactly? Is there a minimum bar? Can Russia just invite a very uncompetitive skater so as not to add competition with Russians?

I do believe she *CAN* do the double axel and triples, but I don't believe she is landing them with any sort of regularity at this moment. I watched a practice video of her yesterday, and it was the same as this, lots of doubles. I would be surprised if she lands a clean triple in the free skate.

 

[Mrs. P]

Wow, I just read that Gracie Gold made a comeback(!) at the latest Grand Prix event...

Now, I didn’t watch her skate - I have no real desire to - but I did see the outcome/result. There’s the optimist’s and the pessimist’s view of looking at this. On one hand, one can say she got out there, and considering the road behind her that’s a victory in itself, regardless of the performance or the result. On the other, one may question the reasoning behind showing up if she was only at 30-40% capacity. Personally, I’m not going to ask questions, it is what it is. But whichever way one sees it, the reality remains: it will be a long, rough road ahead, should she choose to travel it. And her mental response to this and her state of mind moving forward will be just as critical (if not more so) as her physical fitness.

So let the chips fall. I’m out.

It's nice to see your post, RD, as brief as it was.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Yesterday, I watched the twitter feed of her practice and she did land some triples, not during her program (she makred those jumps), but I swear she landed a triple lutz combo. So this skate was rough, but its also below where she is capable of skating in her current training condition.

That is to be expected. I have been a big fan for awhile and she had the same expression going into her jumps that she used to get when she was in peak form about to pop a jump. That made me think she probably has had some good successes in practice, competition is just a different animal altogether.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Hmm...how do GP assignments work exactly? Is there a minimum bar? Can Russia just invite a very uncompetitive skater so as not to add competition with Russians?

I do believe she *CAN* do the double axel and triples, but I don't believe she is landing them with any sort of regularity at this moment. I watched a practice video of her yesterday, and it was the same as this, lots of doubles. I would be surprised if she lands a clean triple in the free skate.

They didn't just invite her, she submitted for a comeback with the ISU which is something a skater can do once in their career. Because she submitted for one the ISU put her in the lineup for a grand prix spot. Which spot she got was dependent on which hosting country invited her.

 

[princessalica]

Wow....that's a little ridiculous, honestly. Though the more competitive that sectionals are, the better.

Hanna Harrell and Pooja are probably the two more promising talents who are still young enough to make a splash in the future. So I guess I'm rooting for them?

Also Maxine Bautista. There are quite a few talented skaters in this field

 

[andromache]

I think if Gracie had known where she would be preparation-wise when she originally decided to be a comeback skater this season, she may not have done it. But she and her team didn’t know.

If she had withdrawn when she realized she was not trained enough, the spot would’ve gone to someone else, but that would’ve been it for Gracie’s comeback GP spot. She never would’ve gotten another one. (Not to mention the naysayers and rumor mill would’ve continued.) So she probably decided she might as well get back out there and throw herself into the deep end.

On the bright side, it’s all uphill from here. Once you’ve survived that bad of a performance at an elite event, you can survive anything. I hope this will make her stronger and more determined moving forward.

 

[tothepointe]

Gracie at her prime was a potential winner of every competition she entered, she has earned the chance to take this comeback in any way she wants to. She had to pay her dues as a younger skater as well before being given this chance. Just because your a member doesn't mean you get the right to demean someone being given a chance who has earned it, besides Ashley she was the most competitive ladies skater the US has had in the last 3 quads. None of the other girls have even come close to her achievements.

There is nothing demeaning about thinking that you should stage your comeback in a logical way by starting with a smaller international competition or even a domestic competition. With scores like that I'm not sure she would have even made it through regionals. She wasn't at elite international competition level. She probably left her decision to come back too late in the year.

I don't subscribe to the whole "paying your dues" concept when it comes to sports. It's all about who is that the right stage of physical conditioning to get the best results at the time. There is no elite skaters union.

Now on a more sympathetic note skating at an elite level is expensive so I can see from a personal point of view having to do what is necessary to keep your funding and your sponsorships. Also from the point of view that you also lose skill as you age that there is a clock ticking.

 

[Seren]

Because I pay my USFS membership dues just like everyone else. USFS has limited funds to spend on it's athletes and honestly, it shouldn't be spending it on that when you have athletes like Starr Andrews who can only afford to skate 2 freestyle sessions a day. Just because you've earnt something in the past doesn't mean you get to keep on spending it. Resources are finite.

I'm happy for her but honestly this was resources squandered. You could have easily achieved the same goals with a senior B or a club competition.

My USFS membership is less than 100 dollars per year (I am an adult skater, board member, and trial test judge). None of those things makes me qualified to tell USFSA how to spend their money on skaters. I am not an elite skater, coach, or judge- my opinion would be speculation. By your argument Starr Andrews didn’t do well on the Grand Prix- so we should spend money on someone else? It doesn’t make sense. There are important lessons to be learned from struggling- things that will help Gracie, Starr, etc. become better skaters.

 

[KatGrace1925]

There is nothing demeaning about thinking that you should stage your comeback in a logical way by starting with a smaller international competition or even a domestic competition. With scores like that I'm not sure she would have even made it through regionals. She wasn't at elite international competition level. She probably left her decision to come back too late in the year.

I don't subscribe to the whole "paying your dues" concept when it comes to sports. It's all about who is that the right stage of physical conditioning to get the best results at the time. There is no elite skaters union.

Now on a more sympathetic note skating at an elite level is expensive so I can see from a personal point of view having to do what is necessary to keep your funding and your sponsorships. Also from the point of view that you also lose skill as you age that there is a clock ticking.

She probably does a bit better in practice than what she put out. I do believe paying your dues is important. On the note of sponsorships in and expense that is likely why she did this event, she automatically gets to go to nationals and probably hopes to pick up some sort of sponsorship. Going through sectionals and regionals wasn't possible and if she couldn't get to nationals she likely had a lower chance of getting sponsors.

 

[tothepointe]

She probably does a bit better in practice than what she put out. I do believe paying your dues is important. On the note of sponsorships in and expense that is likely why she did this event, she automatically gets to go to nationals and probably hopes to pick up some sort of sponsorship. Going through sectionals and regionals wasn't possible and if she couldn't get to nationals she likely had a lower chance of getting sponsors.

I think she still has some sponsors like Red Bull etc that she managed to keep from last year. This can work out well for her brandwise especially if she does her long program at Nationals. I would fully expect a spot on Stars on Ice to be hers if she wanted it. It's not a dire situation but I'm just having an ugh moment today about it.

Anyone remember Elizabeth Swanney from the Olympics this year. It feels a little like that.

 

[andromache]

Whether or not anyone believes in paying their dues or not is immaterial - the ISU allocates spots based on last year’s scores and placements, world rankings, and in the case of a comeback skater, scores and placements from over a year ago.

If you think the ISU should no longer allow comeback skaters, that’s another argument.