2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[andromache]

Again working with non-russian choreographers is a question mark cause you don't know where they stand: if they are anti-russian (because they work with their competitors, or bias,...) and not professional they might produce something bad almost on purpose and wasting your time.

I don't think any professional choreographer from any country would ever do this. The very suggestion that this is a possibility is pretty ridiculous.

I'd personally love to see Alina work with ANY choreographer other than Daniil. I could imagine Buttle, Shae-Lynn, or Charlie White producing something beautiful for her.

 

[Metis]

I don't think any professional choreographer from any country would ever do this. The very suggestion that this is a possibility is pretty ridiculous.

Seconded.

I'd personally love to see Alina work with ANY choreographer other than Daniil. I could imagine Buttle, Shae-Lynn, or Charlie White producing something beautiful for her.

Agree. I know everyone has an opinion on Daniil, but let me try to make a case for seeking another perspective regardless of your thoughts on Dannyboy: I think he has a very individual point of view, and I actually find his POV interesting, but he’s also doing so many programmes that they’re starting to blend into each other, and the signature elements of his style are becoming less interesting than irritating. He does like to have a music change at the start and end of the step sequence, for example, and make the change in musical cuts pronounced via choreography and sound effects. Which can be really interesting when it hits, but when you watch a competition with multiple Danny programmes, the impact of each individual programme is somewhat lessened. He was absolutely the best at choreographing to get as many points as possible out of the old +3 to -3 GOE scale, but I’m not sure his style is the best for the current one, as he often doesn’t leave much room to hold a landing edge after a jump, for example.

I’d like to see Alina explore other points of view — not because I hate Danny’s, but because what once was a distinctive style is becoming almost expected and rote. And it happens to anyone in a creative field; I tend to repeat words or phrases after writing a fair amount, for example. It’s a sort of muscle memory. But I’d like to see Alina explore a different programme genre and try a new choreographer, as she’s an exceptional performer but the material just doesn’t have the same zest and WOW factour it used to, and knowing what works for you and what doesn’t is part of a skater’s growth. Shae-Lynn could definitely create something amazing that both plays to Alina’s strengths while showing a new side of her.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I’d like to see Alina explore other points of view — not because I hate Danny’s, but because what once was a distinctive style is becoming almost expected and rote.

I’ll probably get roasted for bringing up a non Russian skater but I think it’s a relevant question based on your response. Do you feel the same for Satoko? Is her once distinctive style now just expected and lacking the zest it once had? Her programs IMO have had a very similar feel and presentation. Just wondering if you think it applies to her also.



BTW: I give mad props to Gubanova for adopting and changing her style so drastically to suit her new coaching team. She dove in head first and did what was asked. I think it’s a bit of a mismatch but she’s embraced it. That’s not easy to do. Meanwhile Sima is skating the programs I think were made for Anastasiia.

 

[Fluture]

Of course they can. Sasha and Alena will be enough to keep quotas at JrWorlds.You seem to forget about Gubanova who desperatly needs SB for moving to seniors next season and that RusFed is indebted to her by pushing Konstantinova last season. So trying to keep one of Eteri skaters out of podium while pushing Gubanova is expected.
On other hand neither of Eteri 3A even needs to qualify for JrWorlds to ensure their career later. They have their SB score so they easily can go to seniors next season just like Panenkova did this year without even competing anywhere from now on.

I mainly meant when Anna‘s remotely clean. Of course, when she skates like she did at JGPF there will be little chance for her to go to Worlds because someone like Kanysheva, Tarakanova and even Gubanova would be above her. But if she doesn‘t bomb the SP she can gain a significant advantage over the other three due to her high difficulty and the PCS she should be getting. She had two falls in the FS and yet only scored about 4 or 5 points less than Anastasia and Alena who both went clean. Now imagine if she lands one quad and has a cleanish SP. Where will that land her? Right, above those two. While I would absolutely love to see Alena Kanysheva at Worlds this year or Anastasia Tarakanova because she would probably be pretty disheartened, missing worlds the second time in a row, I doubt rusfed would leave Anna at home if she has good skates. She has to prove herself more than she‘d have had she medaled at JGPF but there‘s still a pretty good chance for her. That‘s all I‘m saying.

Also, I frankly don‘t understand why they‘d push Gubanova. Last season she should have gone but this year there‘s little Alena who has just medaled and is really consistent and also not an Eteri skater. If they don‘t want three from Eteri‘s group, they should send her. Gubanova is lovely, with SS to die for but she‘s also pretty inconsistent. With Alena, Anna or even Anastasia as the third skater there might be a better chance of a podium sweep. And it doesn‘t look like Nastya Gubanova was ever pushed by the fed. I doubt they‘ll start now, especially given the depth there will be already next year in seniors and that Nastya had chances at Challenger events to get a good SB.

About the chances of all three of 3A going senior: I think if they all make the worlds team and medal there, they should have at least the opportunity to go seniors next season. Especially Sasha and Alena since they both have lots of medals from the big competitions in juniors already. Sasha has a JGPF and Worlds title and Alena has Worlds Silver and also a JGPF title now. Assuming she gets either bronze or silver at worlds, that would leave her behind Sasha medal wise but with a solid enough reputation to go seniors. If Anna wins and has a Junior Worlds Title under her bealt, she is very likely to move seniors, too. If she is second or third however... well, I think the fed might still consider keeping her in juniors for one more year. While Rika Kihira has shown us that it‘s not absolutely necessary to have done really well in juniors to achieve success in seniors it still is useful at least. It‘s a tough question actually. Rusfed has enough skaters already to completely dominate seniors as well as juniors next season so I don‘t see a problem for Anna moving to seniors. I do have the feeling that a second junior year might actually benefit her, though. She would be the undisputed star and could sweep the season and gain some consistency as well as confidence. I don‘t know what will happen, that‘s just what I think would be good for her. In the end rusfed decides anyway lol

 

[Tolstoj]

I don't think any professional choreographer from any country would ever do this. The very suggestion that this is a possibility is pretty ridiculous.

I'd personally love to see Alina work with ANY choreographer other than Daniil. I could imagine Buttle, Shae-Lynn, or Charlie White producing something beautiful for her.

I don't know if i was a russian coach i'd never send one of my students to Tom Dickson after that interview at TSL where he trashed all the russian girls and the working methods there (he was super envy cause both Medvedeva and Zagitova beated "his" skater at the Olympics). Obviously i don't know how many choreographers share that view, but some of them work with Eteri's competitors.

On top of that bias aside, they'd have to accept the russian way: Eteri is a coach-choreographer, she has a say on the details with the programs and the costume, and some choreographer do not like when their work change (remember Philip Mills with Ashley Wagner in 2013)

 

[hippomoomin]

I remember Nikolai Morozov did a very good program for Anna P in her best year, some good ones for P/T and some good ones for Denis Ten. It seems to be he has the same type intricate style and unique approach to individual skaters similar Shae-lynn.

On the other hand, an in-house choreographer knows more on how to "hide" weakness of a skater and can adjust the program anytime of the season. Using a different may work wonders but could also be a disaster like what Evgenia has this season.

 

[andromache]

but some of them work with Eteri's competitors.

I think most choreographers are used to choreographing for skaters who sometimes compete against each other. Just like coaches coach multiple skaters who compete against each other, like Eteri does.

Of course, not all coaches are going to get along with all choreographers, and some choreographers insist on having more of a say in the final product than others, which probably wouldn't jive well with Eteri. But I do think the majority of choreographers realize that choreography is going to change to suit the technical content and what the skater is capable of. (I don't think most choreographers get too involved with costume/styling decisions.)

I'll admit I just don't like Daniil's style re: the amount of transitions, arm movements, etc. in his programs, and I'd love to see Alina with something that emphasizes her line and more long-held movements. That said, I do think Daniil has generally done a better job choreographing for Kostornaia, Shcherbakova, and Trusova than he has for Alina. Each girl has a distinctive style that he emphasizes and that suits them, and their programs overall come off as less busy/cluttered than Alina's. The second half of the Don Quixote LP is, IMO, the best job he has done choreographing for Alina that captured a sense of energy and balletic quality. I just don't think his programs highlight her strengths/potential strengths.

ETA: I'm no Averkbukh fan, but I am curious about what he would give Alina, if given the opportunity. It doesn't have to be a non-Russian choreographer. Just someone other than Daniil I would like to see.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

I think most choreographers are used to choreographing for skaters who sometimes compete against each other. Just like coaches coach multiple skaters who compete against each other, like Eteri does.

Of course, not all coaches are going to get along with all choreographers, and some choreographers insist on having more of a say in the final product than others, which probably wouldn't jive well with Eteri. But I do think the majority of choreographers realize that choreography is going to change to suit the technical content and what the skater is capable of. (I don't think most choreographers get too involved with costume/styling decisions.)

I'll admit I just don't like Daniil's style re: the amount of transitions, arm movements, etc. in his programs, and I'd love to see Alina with something that emphasizes her line and more long-held movements. That said, I do think Daniil has generally done a better job choreographing for Kostornaia, Shcherbakova, and Trusova than he has for Alina. Each girl has a distinctive style that he emphasizes and that suits them, and their programs overall come off as less busy/cluttered than Alina's. The second half of the Don Quixote LP is, IMO, the best job he has done choreographing for Alina that captured a sense of energy and balletic quality. I just don't think his programs highlight her strengths/potential strengths.

Eteri actually choreographed Alina's Don Q, at least initially. It obviously went through some changes over time, but it wasn't the product of Danny G.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Eteri actually choreographed Alina's Don Q, at least initially. It obviously went through some changes over time, but it wasn't the product of Danny G.

Probably my favorite Choreography by Eteri was Serafima’s programs 2014-15. Especially the SP.

https://youtu.be/4FKIG6BpZ0Q

It’s a brilliant program and every step is just

I love the way she has her skaters making those shapes and motions with their arms as if they are waving a ribbon during a lot of stops and starts while executing footwork. It often reminds me of rhythmic gymnastic movements in a very good way.

 

[Ded Moroz]

I'm no Averkbukh fan, but I am curious about what he would give Alina, if given the opportunity.

:thumbsup:
He has his weaknesses, but I would like to see him do a program for Alina.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Finally got a chance to see Anastasia Tarakanova’s FS.

https://youtu.be/nrk1oPubFGY

This is the best I’ve ever seen her skate and this is going very high on my all time favorite performances list. VERY High!! I can’t believe this is the same girl we saw struggling to rotate her jumps a few months back. She skates like her life depends on it and I just can’t get enough. I hope she gets a shot at JWC this season. She’s gonna have to earn it though at Senior Nationals and Junior Nationals but the talent and everything else is there.

I have to say this program is very very strong. All the goodness of a throwback to the past with the excitement and complexity of a program of the present. She’s fire and I’m a sucker for it! Thank you Mr Plushy!!

I refuse to look at the protocols because I don’t want to put any judges on my list because I fear it might be all of them

 

[cohen-esque]

I’ll probably get roasted for bringing up a non Russian skater but I think it’s a relevant question based on your response. Do you feel the same for Satoko? Is her once distinctive style now just expected and lacking the zest it once had? Her programs IMO have had a very similar feel and presentation. Just wondering if you think it applies to her also.



BTW: I give mad props to Gubanova for adopting and changing her style so drastically to suit her new coaching team. She dove in head first and did what was asked. I think it’s a bit of a mismatch but she’s embraced it. That’s not easy to do. Meanwhile Sima is skating the programs I think were made for Anastasiia.

Well, dunno about Metis, but I’ve gotten amazingly bored with Satoko. But the difference is that it’s Satoko’s style, not her choreographer’s. I can easily the differences in choreography between her programs from this season and last season, and those with the season before, despite the fact that she delivers them all in the same sort of restrained, crisp way that I’ve come to expect.

Alina delivers the movements in her POTO differently than in Carmen differently than in DQ, although I think Carmen and Black Swan feel startlingly alike. But it’s so obviously Daniil style: dramatic music change into the steps, hitch a leg up here, hop after this jump, and programs all put together in the same way regardless of the music or Alina’s performance of them. I think Alina herself has really got a lot more interpretative range than Satoko, and would like to see her work with another choreographer to pair that with some actual choreographic range. Because to me that’s something Daniil has yet to show he can deliver with any of his skaters. It was much more noticeable in person how much his programs all blend together.

 

[neusw]

I think most choreographers are used to choreographing for skaters who sometimes compete against each other. Just like coaches coach multiple skaters who compete against each other, like Eteri does.

Of course, not all coaches are going to get along with all choreographers, and some choreographers insist on having more of a say in the final product than others, which probably wouldn't jive well with Eteri. But I do think the majority of choreographers realize that choreography is going to change to suit the technical content and what the skater is capable of. (I don't think most choreographers get too involved with costume/styling decisions.)

I'll admit I just don't like Daniil's style re: the amount of transitions, arm movements, etc. in his programs, and I'd love to see Alina with something that emphasizes her line and more long-held movements. That said, I do think Daniil has generally done a better job choreographing for Kostornaia, Shcherbakova, and Trusova than he has for Alina. Each girl has a distinctive style that he emphasizes and that suits them, and their programs overall come off as less busy/cluttered than Alina's. The second half of the Don Quixote LP is, IMO, the best job he has done choreographing for Alina that captured a sense of energy and balletic quality. I just don't think his programs highlight her strengths/potential strengths.

ETA: I'm no Averkbukh fan, but I am curious about what he would give Alina, if given the opportunity. It doesn't have to be a non-Russian choreographer. Just someone other than Daniil I would like to see.

My pet theory why Alina's programs are just insane mishmashes of music, transitions, arms, etc., beyond the fact that she is able to handle them, is because Alina is clearly Daniil's favorite student. I think he spends the most time on her programs, which causes him to completely overthink and over-embellish everything, because his strategy is more is more. The more time he spends on the program, the more the kitchen sink gets thrown at it.

 

[melgirl25]

My pet theory why Alina's programs are just insane mishmashes of music, transitions, arms, etc., beyond the fact that she is able to handle them, is because Alina is clearly Daniil's favorite student. I think he spends the most time on her programs, which causes him to completely overthink and over-embellish everything, because his strategy is more is more. The more time he spends on the program, the more the kitchen sink gets thrown at it.

That is why I think he would have a problem if she worked with another choreographer [emoji54]

 

[neusw]

That is why I think he would have a problem if she worked with another choreographer [emoji54]

I highly doubt she will. She seems fully engrained in the Eteri-Daniil system, and why not? Her coaches have given her no reason to doubt her trust in them--the results speak for themselves, and they seem quite protective of her. We may like to see what she would look like in a different system, but I doubt she's unsatisfied with her own progress.

 

[melgirl25]

I highly doubt she will. She seems fully engrained in the Eteri-Daniil system, and why not? Her coaches have given her no reason to doubt her trust in them--the results speak for themselves, and they seem quite protective of her. We may like to see what she would look like in a different system, but I doubt she's unsatisfied with her own progress.

I never thought she would use another choreographer. She works really well with Daniil.

 

[hippomoomin]

Anna Shcherbakova's programs by Daniil are well constructed. I believe he is capable of creating great programs. It is way better to change his strategy for Alina than trying a different choreographer. Alina's exhibition could be converted into a short program. She just looks much more alive in it.

 

[DougDorsey]

Anna Shcherbakova's programs by Daniil are well constructed. I believe he is capable of creating great programs. It is way better to change his strategy for Alina than trying a different choreographer. Alina's exhibition could be converted into a short program. She just looks much more alive in it.

Agreed. How about Sasha? I always assumed Daniil choreographed her, as well, but I was surprised by this Instagram post from her from yesterday...https://www.instagram.com/p/BrLOcwwhcMm. At least according to the translation, she credits "Ludmila Borisovna and Alexei" as her choreographers. Of all four girls and their eight current programs, I think Sasha's FS program is the worst, just an awful parade of cuts of aggravating music. She definitely deserves better. I always assumed Daniil was to blame for it, but maybe not?

 

[DougDorsey]

Russian Junior nationals are at the end of January / beginning of February

My bad! I misread the dates. But Russian Senior Nationals are in a little over a week, right? And also, is it in fact the case that some girls can and will compete in both? How does that work?

 

[moriel]

Agreed. How about Sasha? I always assumed Daniil choreographed her, as well, but I was surprised by this Instagram post from her from yesterday...https://www.instagram.com/p/BrLOcwwhcMm. At least according to the translation, she credits "Ludmila Borisovna and Alexei" as her choreographers. Of all four girls and their eight current programs, I think Sasha's FS program is the worst, just an awful parade of cuts of aggravating music. She definitely deserves better. I always assumed Daniil was to blame for it, but maybe not?

Shalashova Lyudmila Borisovna is Daniil's mother, a former ballerina. She helps with choreo.
Alexei Zheleznyakov does jass stuff off ice in Eteri's team.