2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Fluture]

Because human body after full growth gives better athletic abilities. GOE are not exactly that. They are great of execution, even with +5 they are not more than the base value of a +1 rotation. I was speaking about BV.

For me it's not the same athletic ability Karen Chen's, Tsurskay's Lutz and Satoko's. What I described doesn't prevent juniors to show less athletic abilities. For example Trusova can jump even now 60+cm in her Toe (4T) jump. But if she losses her rotation speed at 17 and can still jump 60+cm in 3T the base value will be similar lets say. Since the athletic ability is still there...

At first thought, this actually makes a lot of sense. But I fear that it would be a very complicated system and even more so than the current one we have. I also don‘t know how it could be applied. But it‘s certainly interesting to think about.

 

[zounger]

At first thought, this actually makes a lot of sense. But I fear that it would be a very complicated system and even more so than the current one we have. I also don‘t know how it could be applied. But it‘s certainly interesting to think about.

That's why I said reliable technology. At some point, this technology will be available. Personally, it can be developt even now just needs some investment/money/time.

 

[atsumiri]

Interesting thread. Are they actually considering raising the age limit (again)?

no. they're not. It's been almost a year but some people just can't calm down that Olympic won the wrong girl. They're still here with a little snide comments)).

It's all about TAT and her propaganda to sent Evgenia to EC and WC.
so in the end... Just some very pro-TAT people are being salty.)
TAT herself is being a woman of many moods.

 

[zenskate]

LOL you're so funny)
What is even has to do with Eteri...

Everything has to do with Eteri

She obviously rules the whole figure skating world, or else how did her poor, overscored, backloading, flutzing, puberty-stricken students completely dominate ladies skating in both juniors and seniors over the past four years?

That was sarcasm, for those who can't recognize it.

 

[cohen-esque]

Because human body after full growth gives better athletic abilities. GOE are not exactly that. They are great of execution, even with +5 they are not more than the base value of a +1 rotation. I was speaking about BV.

For me it's not the same athletic ability Karen Chen's, Tsurskay's Lutz and Satoko's. What I described doesn't prevent juniors to show less athletic abilities. For example Trusova can jump even now 60+cm in her Toe (4T) jump. But if she losses her rotation speed at 17 and can still jump 60+cm in 3T the base value will be similar lets say. Since the athletic ability is still there...

But rotation also relies on athletic ability; a 60+ cm quad is a greater athletic feat than a 60+ cm triple.

 

[madison]

LOL you're so funny)
What is even has to do with Eteri...

Of course it has... one can easily see from her interview when she says: where is the old Zhenya, who was divine etc.... the new athlete is bad. something along these lines.
Meaning when Zhenya was with Eteri she was divine, now, not at all.
If she wouldn't be biased (pro Eteri), she could have said something mild like: Zhenya is in a transitional period of time, she needs time to work further etc.

 

[dobrevaria]

So far Tchaikovskaia - who is the chairman of the coaches board - has been extremely sensible all along.
While we can agree or disagree, i would say that her oppinion has more weight than a fan's oppinion.

I also disagree about nationals being a turning point. She already had a comeback once, in Canada, and it didn't prevent Grenoble or SP at nationals from happening. I dont believe that she will suddenly put out olympic level skates if she is sent to euros or nationals, and i prefer to see her next season.

Her opinion doesn't have any "weight" for me, only fact carry weight. An opinion is not a fact - it's still an opinion, no matter who says it. She makes interesting points, but I disagree, and I listed the reasons why I disagree. I don't have to be a chairman to make statements (at least, I hope so!).

I do think Nationals were a turning point, because she really looked different for me. Her FS at Skate Canada was nice, but it was nothing compared to how she was in the free skate at RN2019. However - maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Either way, I agree with you on one point : I want to see her next season, and she doesn't have to do others competitions this season (even if I want to, but it's just me being selfish). I want her to heal her back - she has some severe back pains, apparently - and train quietly to be 100% ready next season.

 

[madison]

That's why I said reliable technology. At some point, this technology will be available. Personally, it can be developt even now just needs some investment/money/time.

I am in for this new technology. I think it's the correct way for the future.

 

[Fluture]

no. they're not. It's been almost a year but some people just can't calm down that Olympic won the wrong girl. They're still here with a little snide comments)).

It's all about TAT and her propaganda to sent Evgenia to EC and WC.
so in the end... Just some very pro-TAT people are being salty.)
TAT herself is being a woman of many moods.

If TAT had indeed so much influence as we thought she had, Evgenia would be going to EC and WC. But she isn‘t. Which means that either she isn‘t as powerful or her propaganda isn‘t working. Personally I find it very dumb that she only complains afterwards when she didn‘t even go to the coaches council. Like, sure, you want Zhenya at these competitions but don‘t even bother to go to the council and make a case for her? What on earth did she expect? Zhenya was the fourth senior at RusNats, it was obvious that even without Liza she would have a hard time getting the last ticket, considering the way the rest of her season went.

I‘m still of the opinion that, after seeing a podium full of juniors, there is a legitimate concern about raising the age limit and it doesn‘t have to do solely with Medvedeva or the Olympics. Sure, the juniors were better that day and deservedly won but still... I can understand the confusion and that people feel like they need to talk about it. I personally don‘t find anything bad in it as long as they don‘t start being ridiculous.

 

[lesnar001]

Everything has to do with Eteri

She obviously rules the whole figure skating world, or else how did her poor, overscored, backloading, flutzing, puberty-stricken students completely dominate ladies skating in both juniors and seniors over the past four years?

That was sarcasm, for those who can't recognize it.

sarcasm for some.

gospel truth for others.

 

[zounger]

But rotation also relies on athletic ability; a 60+ cm quad is a greater athletic feat than a 60+ cm triple.

That's why I used "let's say similar". These things are up to decisions metrics, feedback from coaches, athletes, scientists. In the early era + rotation was linear to athletic ability, but after 3 rotations, I think this linearity is breaking and relies more on rotation. The rotation itself( if you exclude the technic, how to put your arms, legs, axis etc.), starts to play resiprocally to athletic ability of high/long jump.

What I described is a possible way to resolve the age issue as it seems to rise now, without changing any artificial cut-offs for seniority or whatever "mature" arguments. It's just an opinion, which I believe is complient with the universal stornger, faster, higher. In that aspect rotation is just a factor.

 

[Mathman]

I am in for this new technology. I think it's the correct way for the future.

As Zounger emphasizes: money, money, money. If there were any money to be made in figure skating technology we would have it tomorrow.

 

[atsumiri]

Of course it has... one can easily see from her interview when she says: where is the old Zhenya, who was divine etc.... the new athlete is bad. something along these lines.
Meaning when Zhenya was with Eteri she was divine, now, not at all. If she wouldn't be biased (pro Eteri), she could have said something mild like: Zhenya is in a transitional period of time, she needs time to work further etc.

everyone with eyes sees it. :agree:
And not everyone is so envious of Eteri to say trash about her and her students. and not everyone is so pro-TAT and her propaganda.
some of them have have a conscience. and eyes.

 

[jenaj]

The PCS is used to be the decision maker and a tie breaker.

Also the max PCS is indeed 80, but min is zero.
TES can be pretty high, 90+ for ladies as we see, but cannot be too low, by design.

PCS is already if too much weight and were used very well to demote one specific skater in RusNats (I'm forbidden to whisper her name).
Ok, I do agree she wasn't in position to win.

There's always a possibility that a certain sportsperson's developed too much advantage over the rest and won few titles in a no concurrence mode, leaving us without a well deserved intrigue. But it's always temporary.

PCS was never a "decision maker" or "tie breaker." It was intended to potentially be half of the score. That is why the ladies PCS is factored--because the ladies TES was thought to be lower than the men's.

 

[Mathman]

PCS was never a "decision maker" or "tie breaker." It was intended to potentially be half of the score. That is why the ladies PCS is factored--because the ladies TES was thought to be lower than the men's.

Maybe if the ladies all start doing quads and triple Axels we will have to discuss, as we have for the men, the advisability of raising the PCSs overall because the potential TES has gotten so far out of sight.

 

[Jontor]

Or maybe it’s time to start reevaluating the root of the problem and look seriously at expanding the field to start including skaters based on their scores and not their nationality. The reason people get pushed aside isn’t always because they are deteriorating but rather there is no place for them to compete. TBH I’m far more concerned that Anastasiia may give up than someoneone having a freak fall. Sima has been improving the last few seasons...Gubanova and Tarakanova would have made almost any other nations team and placed well at JWC yet they get pushed aside. It must be incredibly frustrating! Masha has really only had one bad season since she started competing internationally in 2013. She can keep training to fight thru this tough season but even if she gets back to her top form will there be room for her...regardless of how well she does or would stack up internationally? Is it worth it for her to continue or in her best interest to focus on school? Tough choices!!

Totally agree! I think it's insane the way it is now. I do understand that a European Championship should be European, not the RusNat - but three spots!!??!! That is clearly not enough for Russia. All of the 18 skaters in the ladies event in Russia could easily medal at Europeans if they had the chance. And it's wrong that most of these 18 girls won't even get GP assignments next year.

 

[Fluture]

everyone with eyes sees it. :agree:
And not everyone is so envious of Eteri to say trash about her and her students. and not everyone is so pro-TAT and her propaganda.
some of them have have a conscience. and eyes.

I‘m sure that had Zhenya stayed with Eteri and wouldn‘t be doing well now either, it would also be blamed on her. Like, Zhenya would be the one who was lazy or just not suited to compete at all anymore. Zhenya did not have two clean performances last year until the Olympics. Her trademark consistency already started to fail her. You think it would have been better with Eteri this year after not training for months and being severely injured? Yulia stayed with Eteri after the Olympics and she still had problems. Eteri is not the solution to everything and just because Zhenya isn‘t doing well now with Orser does not automatically mean she would have done better under Eteri. Because whether we like it or not, her technique has started to fail her last year already. The only way for her body to be able to continue was to change the training system, the endless repetitions wouldn‘t have worked for her anymore. And the problem is, this automtically comes with a loss of consistency and body memory and it‘s something she has to get used to. I won‘t say Zhenya will ever be at her old 2016-17 level of consistency under Orser. But then again, considering her injury it would have been a miracle, even under Eteri.

 

[atsumiri]

If TAT had indeed so much influence as we thought she had, Evgenia would be going to EC and WC.

Say it to Stasya and Kovtun.
Stasya is the other TAT favourite who was pushed already 4 times (JWC17 JWC18 WC18 and now) over these who deserved it more. just because of TAT.
Rusfed and TAT done a lot of work here.. to help Evgenia... by lowering scores to other skaters...... and by giving her a crazy PCS.
Now TAT is pushing Stasya and Evgenia over Liza and Sonya who is obviously more deserved these spots....
yes,.... no influence at all.

 

[fabienne1996]

I‘m sure that had Zhenya stayed with Eteri and wouldn‘t be doing well now either, it would also be blamed on her. Like, Zhenya would be the one who was lazy or just not suited to compete at all anymore. Zhenya did not have two clean performances last year until the Olympics. Her trademark consistency already started to fail her. You think it would have been better with Eteri this year after not training for months and being severely injured? Yulia stayed with Eteri after the Olympics and she still had problems. Eteri is not the solution to everything and just because Zhenya isn‘t doing well now with Orser does not automatically mean she would have done better under Eteri. Because whether we like it or not, her technique has started to fail her last year already. The only way for her body to be able to continue was to change the training system, the endless repetitions wouldn‘t have worked for her anymore. And the problem is, this automtically comes with a loss of consistency and body memory and it‘s something she has to get used to. I won‘t say Zhenya will ever be at her old 2016-17 level. But then again, considering her injury it would have been a miracle, even under Eteri.

Not only wouldn't have the old training technique not worked but destroyed her body really fast and soon,and j do think that the doctors told her that hard truth. Which is why she already said in interviews the old mehtods wouldn't work for her anymore. And well we will never now if eteri would have changed her entire trainings method for zhenya. Mabye yes mabye not. Would eteri have had the time to rework her technique? Next to aljna and the 3A juniors? Or would eteri stood by her method and would have watched zhenyas body shutting down?Would they have even reworked/refined her jumping and skating technique at all.? Questions that will never have a true answer.

 

[atsumiri]

I‘m sure ...

I can only repeat

Take another look in your crystal ball, my friend
https://giphy.com/gifs/edbassmastershow-cmt-the-ed-bassmaster-show-3o72F5tx9CEhSDxonC