2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Tavi...]

"Her arms are very stiff, she moves her body only when she‘s doing the choreography she‘s been given. "
Just a side note, this has nothing to do with musicality.
One can be musical and have stiff arms. One can do the exact choreography that was given and still be musical. One can do the opposite and still don't be musical.
"there is a big difference between children who do what they‘re being told to do and those who really feel what they‘re doing" still nothing to do with musicality, sorry.

In FS, its quite common to actually not be very easy to identify musicality and non musicality, because with enough practice, you can teach literally anybody to do movements with the music.
Good way to see how musical / non musical skaters are are when they catch up the music after a fall, or - and specially - during gala finales, when the had no time to learn the choreo (you can see the difference quite well then).

Yeah I don’t really agree. What you’re rejecting as the definition of musicality - someone who innately feels and expresses the music - is actually spot on, and I’m speaking as a former musician. Anyone can be taught to initiate movement on a strong beat or together with a musical accent or phrase. An innately musical person will also hear and respond to other things in the music. It’s pretty easy to tell the difference.

 

[Casual]

I'm just not interested in an Olympic sport where the athletes - supposed masters of their disciplines - peak at 14/15 and it's all downhill from there. That's a sport for children.

We still have to wait and see this if this is going to be a recurring pattern in the sport. We don't yet have a revolving door of 15/16 year olds who win everything at the senior level and then fall into decline...but we could see it happen this quad, with Alina, Rika, and then Kost/Shcher/Trusova. I think if those last three girls are all surpassed by younger girls by the 2022 Olympics, it will be a very bad sign for the sport. They're all incredible prodigies in different ways, and if all three are "replaced" with a new wave of first-year seniors, then changes will be made.

Exactly. It will be a sad day if ladies FS becomes like ladies Gymnastics - a sport only for young ones.

 

[DougDorsey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlgJrmxspdA
Here's the version of Kissing You with the Leonardo DiCaprio voiceovers. You've got the Abel Korzienowski Romeo and Juliet track right, but I can't seem to find the version of Nino Rota's Love Theme that Daniil used for Alena.

Thank you, vesperalvioletta! We're at two of three. Guess we'll have to find a way to ask Daniil himself in person .

 

[Casual]

Yeah I don’t really agree. What you’re rejecting as the definition of musicality - someone who innately feels and expresses the music - is actually spot on, and I’m speaking as a former musician. Anyone can be taught to initiate movement on a strong beat or together with a musical accent or phrase. An innately musical person will also hear and respond to other things in the music. It’s pretty easy to tell the difference.

ITA (as a former musician too). It's very easy to tell the difference - but maybe, only if one is innately musical herself/himself. Otherwise, probably not?

You know what. I've just realized, that a lot of my harping on skaters with "over-inflated PCS but very poor artistry" is probably caused, primarily, by their lack of musicality. But it's not their fault. It's just something they don't have, which translates into "phony/ungraceful" performances (in my eyes), (which subsequently results in me fuming, when I see a proverbial корова на льду performance rewarded with sky-high PCS, LOL).

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Again, being 'musical' doesn't necessaraly mean your Interpretation of the music score will be higher. It can help your score off course, but you can score high in interpretatiion if your skating and body movements are acknowleding the music in some way, more time during your program and with more variety in skating and body movements - the better. Myahara is a very musical skater, but if she doesn't interpret the music full time in her program (if she has for example long preparation for elements, long pauses/breathing points or other interuptions in her program) or she doesn't use the whole ice rink and space around her for that she won't get the highest mark. Some other skater may score higher because she was skating to the the music the whole time during her program and with more involvement, even she is not that musical skater per se. Brian Joubert is not that musical, but when he is on, he interprets the music he is skating to very well. Interpretation of the music here is related to the ice rink and the requirement of the program and other required skating elements and also physical and psychological involvement of a skater in a moment of the competition/performance, and it is not judged indenpendetly of all that.

 

[skylark]

It could be one of the reasons, but it’s hard to say. It was also unclear to me why she regressed so much in 2015/2016. Anyway, I’m happy she managed to come back. However, having gotten used to Eteri’s programs, Liza’s programs do seem a little bit empty, although she is very good at selling them.

I remember at the time that several commentators (former elite skaters) were wondering how Liza maintained the level of skating and stamina that she did all through 2014-15, while competing at so many competitions. Not lower-stress-level competitions, but 4 international Challenger events, 2 GPs, GPF, with Nationals following right after. Then of course Europeans, Worlds, and WTT. They spoke of mental and emotional fatigue, not just the physical need for rest. Some weren't surprised that Liza's constitution couldn't sustain it, when she tried to duplicate that schedule during the 2015-16 season.

 

[Alexz]

News about another trio

Samodelkina, Berestovskaya, and Akatieva were all at the CSKA Cup that just ended. In a tight race for gold, Samodelkina ended up beating Akatieva by less than half a point :shocked: and Berestovskaya got third

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br0kpmyBzyj/

margin between top-2 is .3, so it negligible pretty much. Besides it's a CSKA cup. So it is a small invitational - a "home" cup? Why it says "special gifts/prices from Santa Claus"? Some kind of a thing to hand out nice gifts to young girls for Christmas and New Year? Nice touch by CSKA, I guess.

 

[Giltedge]

News about another trio
Samodelkina, Berestovskaya, and Akatieva were all at the CSKA Cup that just ended. In a tight race for gold, Samodelkina ended up beating Akatieva by less than half a point :shocked: and Berestovskaya got third

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br0kpmyBzyj/

Super skating by all three. I think this is the second time this season Sofia A and Sveta have been pipped to the post by Sofia S, though only by a cat's whisker here. A nice healthy rivalry developing.

 

[Giltedge]

Whoa :eeking: Whoa :eeking:

I wonder what the current list is now...

4Lz-3Lo:
Alexandra Trusova* (this girl has insane abilities :shocked:)

3Lz-3Lo:
Alina Zagitova
Sofia Samodelkina
Sofia Akatieva
Alexandra Trusova
Alena Kostornaya
Anna Shcherbakova
Alena Kanysheva
Ksenia Sinitsyna
Viktoria Vasilieva
Elizaveta Nugumanova
Natalia Ogoreltseva
Valeria Emelyanova*
Viktoria Safonova
Anastasia Gubanova

3F-3Lo:
Alina Zagitova
Alexandra Trusova
Anna Shcherbakova
Viktoria Vasilieva
Elizaveta Nugumanova

3Lo-3Lo:
Elizaveta Nugumanova
Natalia Ogoreltseva
Evgenia Medvedeva*

3S-3Lo:
Evgenia Medvedeva
Elizaveta Nugumanova*

2A-3Lo:
Evgenia Medvedeva*
Elizaveta Nugumanova*

* = only in practice so far

and I probably missed some :eeking:
and I probably missed some :eeking:

Not sure if this has been asked already, but is there anything for the Kamila, Darya, Maya, Kseniya ladies and others at their level?

 

[LenaRadiFan]

@ all the people that are like "sad that leonova will not be on the gp next year" I just have to laugh. We don't know how the spots are gonna be distributed, after all the hosts get to choose. Anyways, when they'll announce it I can already see the people screaming "unfair" about it [emoji23][emoji23]

 

[Giltedge]

Also, is Anastasiya Shabotova doing exciting things w r t jumps? She seems to be getting pretty impressive FS scores this season. (Same sort of age-group as the Kamila one)?


(Thanks, I did not know about Natalia O.)

 

[Tavi...]

Again, being 'musical' doesn't necessaraly mean your Interpretation of the music score will be higher. It can help your score off course, but you can score high in interpretatiion just if your skating and body movements are acknowleding the music in some way, more time during your program and with more variety in skating and body movements - the better. Myahara is a very musical skater, but if she doesn't interpret the music full time in her program (if she has for example long preparation for elements, long pauses/breathing points or other interuptions in her program) she won't get the highest mark. Some other skater may score higher because she was skating to the the music the whole time during her program and with more involvement, even she is not that musical skater per se.

I agree that being musical doesn’t guarantee higher scores, but a skater whose “skating and body movements are acknowledging the music in some way” is musical.

IMO whether or not an innately musical person gets higher PCS than someone else depends at least in part on how musical the judges themselves are. To the extent they’re not - and to Casual’s point - they’re unlikely to recognize a skater who’s exceptionally musical, so the skater probably won’t benefit. The criteria are basically elements matched to the music and picking up on other nuances in the music, which is pretty vague.

With respect to a skater who has long pauses or interruptions in her program - I can’t imagine any good program doing that, but I suppose it warrants lower PCS. Although if you think about it, last year a lot of guys doing lots of quads spent like the first half of their programs setting up for one quad after another, and it didn’t seem to affect their PCS much.

 

[moriel]

@ all the people that are like "sad that leonova will not be on the gp next year" I just have to laugh. We don't know how the spots are gonna be distributed, after all the hosts get to choose. Anyways, when they'll announce it I can already see the people screaming "unfair" about it [emoji23][emoji23]

Its is quite likely that she will not get 2 GPs next year, as there are more than 10 senior eligible russians ahead of her and she is currently #25 at the SB list.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Also, is Anastasiya Shabotova doing exciting things w r t jumps? She seems to be getting pretty impressive FS scores this season. (Same sort of age-group as the Kamila one)?


(Thanks, I did not know about Natalia O.)

I don't think so.
As far as I know, Kamila and Nastya Shabotova do 3Lz-3T. Daria does 3F-3T and Maya does 3Lo-3T. But it will be interesting to see them all do an elements competition - they could bring something new there.

 

[Globetrotter]

Exactly. People think that Alena's skating skills are miles above Sasha, but they don't realize that this is because she is given breathtaking music and programs that allow her to convey a different type of story than Sasha. If Alena was performing Sasha's programs than surely people would not praise her skating skills nearly as much as they do now.

Not quite I think. Sasha’s basic SS is typical or Eteri Girls v3.0 - better than Yulia, Zhenya, Alina certainly. Sasha has better power and can generate and change speed better than Alyona but the latter has better glide and edge. They both have strengths in different aspects of SS. Alyona looks better to me primarily because of her great posture that conveys the semblance of balance while Sasha can look rather frenetic. It’s that superior posture that gives Alyona that floaty like quality. I think Alyona is the more natural skater that needs to learn she can use her lovely edge control to accelerate more while Sasha needs to develop better body awareness to better showcase her power. Overall, Scherbakova is the one who charms audience the most as she has the most natural dance and musical feel with decent basics and it certainly helps that she is so so lovely.

 

[neud]

I'd just love to see one Russian girl hang in there past 18yo and not be thrown in the garbage or having to stop due to mental or physical injuries in their late teens.

Tuktamysheva. You're welcome.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

@ all the people that are like "sad that leonova will not be on the gp next year" I just have to laugh. We don't know how the spots are gonna be distributed, after all the hosts get to choose. Anyways, when they'll announce it I can already see the people screaming "unfair" about it [emoji23][emoji23]

Well ...as I understand it the Federation has to submit a skaters name to be eligible but I’m sure if they do she’ll get at least one spot. I really think it’s time to give Gubanova a chance though. She’s really hung in there and deserves an opportunity as much as anyone and Leonova has been given plenty of chances so if it comes down to it I reserve the right to be annoyed if she gets passed over for others who have been given plenty of opportunity.

I always enjoy Alena though so it’s not personal. It’s more like business IMO

 

[Giltedge]

People often cite Sasha's stiff-armed style (among other things) as evidence of her lack of musicality. For me, it is simply a different approach and not at all a sign of anything lacking in her abilities or approach. Personally, I find Sasha's stiff-armed style suits her programmes and perfectly complements her body aspect, movement, footwork, elements, choreography and music of the particular programme, all going to make up a complete package. :agree2: This places me in a minority, it seems. Her arm-work harmonises with these other aspects in telling the story of her programmes. And she certainly does adapt it. Compare arm use in, e.g., her current SP, FS and previous FS, with last year's SP, where her arms have very different elbow and shoulder flexion and connect differently with the music.


For me, the important thing about the skating arms (not considering spinning arms or jumping arms or arm engagement transitioning in and out of elements) is to maintain control over the arms at all times. What I see happening with many skaters is that there are lapses in arm control momentarily (or for longer periods with some skaters), and the impression is that the lapsed arms are then remembered and brought back into engagement, with discordant effect (to my mind).


So long as there is this continuous control, the style as such is not an issue. The style could be graceful willowy arm style (I love these arms :agree characterised by by Anna and Alёna Kanysheva , the commanding outstretched arms of Sasha (I love these arms :agree: ), the unique Alina-style arms of Alina (I love these arms :agree (I detect their influence in Anna’s FS), various distinctly mishin-arms (I do not mind :think, the precisely held story-telling arms (Alёna, Kamila? :agree: ), the wildly flailing arms (so popular with some schools, but not for me :disagree, the shoulder swinging arms (nope :disagree: ), and so on. There are combinations, adaptations, variations with programme, and so on. Obviously, these are all a matter or taste for the observer.
But whatever the style, keeping the arms engaged all the time is what makes me purr.

 

[Giltedge]

Not quite I think. Sasha’s basic SS is typical or Eteri Girls v3.0 - better than Yulia, Zhenya, Alina certainly. Sasha has better power and can generate and change speed better than Alyona but the latter has better glide and edge. They both have strengths in different aspects of SS. Alyona looks better to me primarily because of her great posture that conveys the semblance of balance while Sasha can look rather frenetic. It’s that superior posture that gives Alyona that floaty like quality. I think Alyona is the more natural skater that needs to learn she can use her lovely edge control to accelerate more while Sasha needs to develop better body awareness to better showcase her power. Overall, Scherbakova is the one who charms audience the most as she has the most natural dance and musical feel with decent basics and it certainly helps that she is so so lovely.

I agree with much of what you say, and this is the sort of critique of Sasha I appreciate, because, although I do not agree in all respects, it is nuanced and acknowledges Sasha's strengths. So much of the criticism one sees is of the nonsensical "Sasha has jumps and little else" variety. Where I differ is that I do see superb "body control" in Sasha, just of a different variety to Alёna's, with her (I agree) great strengths in posture and "floatiness". I call it the waterskimmer. Anna has it too and is building on it, I think. Funny enough, I detect floatiness in Sasha too, unlikely though it sounds. Perhaps this quality is not exploited enough in her fast-paced programmes, but I believe the potential is there in the right sort of programme. When I see those glimpses in Sasha, I want more but I am happy if she gives us quads for the time being. It is there nicely also in the other Alёna K, and a thing I like about Stanislava's SS.

 

[alvina9894]

Whoa :eeking:

I wonder what the current list is now...

4Lz-3Lo:
Alexandra Trusova* (this girl has insane abilities :shocked

3Lz-3Lo:
Alina Zagitova
Sofia Samodelkina
Sofia Akatieva
Alexandra Trusova
Alena Kostornaya
Anna Shcherbakova
Alena Kanysheva
Ksenia Sinitsyna
Viktoria Vasilieva
Elizaveta Nugumanova
Natalia Ogoreltseva
Valeria Emelyanova*
Viktoria Safonova
Anastasia Gubanova

3F-3Lo:
Alina Zagitova
Alexandra Trusova
Anna Shcherbakova
Viktoria Vasilieva
Elizaveta Nugumanova

3Lo-3Lo:
Elizaveta Nugumanova
Natalia Ogoreltseva
Evgenia Medvedeva*

3S-3Lo:
Evgenia Medvedeva
Elizaveta Nugumanova*

2A-3Lo:
Evgenia Medvedeva*
Elizaveta Nugumanova*

* = only in practice so far

and I probably missed some :eeking:

Anastasia Tarakanova 3Lz3Lo*
https://www.instagram.com/p/Boyr4pQjHJK/