2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Mathman]

I appreciate the response :agree:

Did they remove the term posture from the handbook or has it always been absent?

The old language (under P&E) was

Carriage

Carriage is a trained inner strength of the body that makes possible ease of movement from the center of the body.

I think the emphasis was on inner core strength. In ice dance (as in dance generally) I think that each type of ballroom dance has it's own expected posture and attitude.

The ISU has become increasingly stingy in elucidating the criteria for the various program components, compared to when the CoP first came out. I always wondered if that was because they decided that trying to over-define artistic qualities was not very helpful in terms of judging.

 

[skatenewbie]

Liza just posted her 2A+3T+2T combo, i think soon she will get her 3A back (and 3Lz+3T if she have not get it back yet) nice to see her recovering pretty quickly!

 

[Edwin]

I always wondered if that was because they decided that trying to over-define artistic qualities was not very helpful in terms of judging.

Micro managing the Code in subjective matters like artistry is never a good idea.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Moscow Cup:

Juniors:
1. Kamila Valieva
2. Maya Kromykh
3. Alena Kanysheva

Seniors:
1. Ksenia Sinitsyna
2. Anastasia Gracheva
3. Ksenia Tsibinova

 

[Fluture]

Moscow Cup:

Juniors:
1. Kamila Valieva
2. Maya Kromykh
3. Alena Kanysheva

Seniors:
1. Ksenia Sinitsyna
2. Anastasia Gracheva
3. Ksenia Tsibinova

Yay for Kanysheva getting a medal! What happened to Usacheva, though? Wasn‘t she competing, too and had a pretty good SP?

 

[rachno2]

Moscow Cup:

Juniors:
1. Kamila Valieva
2. Maya Kromykh
3. Alena Kanysheva

Seniors:
1. Ksenia Sinitsyna
2. Anastasia Gracheva
3. Ksenia Tsibinova

How did Kanysheva do in the free?

 

[Fluture]

How did Kanysheva do in the free?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-yjftP6XQ

She has a new layout. 3Lz-3Lo and 3Lz-3T instead of 3Lz-3T and an Euler combo, I think? Didn‘t look as confident and secure as in the JGPF but that‘s probably due to the new jumps she is trying. I don‘t know whether that‘s such a good idea before JuniorNats, actually since she has basically only one way of getting a ticket to JuniorWorlds anyway and that‘s being clean while others make mistakes. If the 3A are all clean, I doubt she has a chance anyway, even with an improved layout. I think she should stick to “playing it safe“ but maybe that‘s her plan for next year already, trying to stand out in the new wave of Eteri students coming to Juniors?

 

[rachno2]

Yes, some posters here want us to believe that Japanese skaters overall have better posture and skating skills than the Russians especially those who are with Eteri who is just the genius of maximizing scores. Nothing new.

I don’t know if this is our fault for not expressing things clearly, or if you genuinely believe that any critique of a Russian skater comes from a place of nationally-motivated bias. Neither I nor the original critic ever posted that Japanese girls are better than Russian girls. We noticed that many (not all) of Tutberidze’s skaters have poor posture, and speculated that Eteri was putting more emphasis on run-throughs/jump consistency than on developing lasting skating skills. There are merits to this method (SS is just one measly category in PCS, after all), and nobody can say Eteri has not achieved great results. There are also exceptions, like Kostornaia and Trusova, who has markedly improved her posture and skating skills.

Given its depth of talent, I follow Russian ladies more closely than probably any other national discipline, and I actively root for many of them, including some of Tutberidze’s present and former students. So please spare me this “national jealousy” BS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-yjftP6XQ

She has a new layout. 3Lz-3Lo and 3Lz-3T instead of 3Lz-3T and an Euler combo, I think? Didn‘t look as confident and secure as in the JGPF but that‘s probably due to the new jumps she is trying. I don‘t know whether that‘s such a good idea before JuniorNats, actually since she has basically only one way of getting a ticket to JuniorWorlds anyway and that‘s being clean while others make mistakes. If the 3A are all clean, I doubt she has a chance anyway, even with an improved layout. I think she should stick to “playing it safe“ but maybe that‘s her plan for next year already, trying to stand out in the new wave of Eteri students coming to Juniors?

I think the Junior World Team is set, barring a complete disaster (and even then I think it is still set). At SeniorNats, the most vulnerable of the 3A was Anna, and she won the damn thing! So Kanysheva is probably trying to stand out for next season, like you said. But I would think two clean skates here, compounded with her JGPF bronze, would help her on that front as much as introducing a 3Lz-3Lo combination would. I admire her taking a risk, though.

 

[Fluture]

Also: Is this a new video? I have never seen it before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1BAGf3FxUk

3A dancing.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Yay for Kanysheva getting a medal! What happened to Usacheva, though? Wasn‘t she competing, too and had a pretty good SP?

She fell twice - on her 3Lz and her second 3F. She also stepped out, on a 3Lo and her first 3F, so she only had one combo (2A-3T)

 

[Fluture]

some trolls do, in most cases they already in my ignore list

Yes, because voicing reasonable criticism in a respectful tone is certainly trolling... :noshake:

It‘s been said multiple times already that this is not all Russian ladies and nothing against Russian ladies in general. I don‘t see why it‘s an issue to state that someone could work more on posture. It‘s like pointing out someone has a flutz. Hunching forwards while doing crossovers is bad technique and a sign of not having the best skating skills. It‘s also not entirely genetic and it can be trained. I see why it‘s not as much of a focus on this in Team Tutberidze, thed put more importance on having clean run-throughs in practice. The day has only so many hours. For me it‘s an issue and it‘s not aesthetically pleasing to see a skater hunch over. I wish certain skaters would take time to correct this but that doesn‘t mean that I hate them or troll them. Not at all. This is not a fanfest, we can utter criticism. As long as it‘s with respect which is often lacking in here. But most comments I’ve read on posture in the last few hours and days were actually detailed, reasonable and constructive.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Also: Is this a new video? I have never seen it before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1BAGf3FxUk

3A dancing.

All of their traits are so distinct. I love watching the same people learn the same choreo and seeing the nuances that develop based upon those traits. I also miss Tarakanova being a part of these dance classes. Everyone had to be on guard

 

[Fluture]

All of their traits are so distinct. I love watching the same people learn the same choreo and seeing the nuances that develop based upon this traits. I miss Tarakanova being a part of these dance classes. Everyone had to be on guard

I agree. I love this video because it finally shows the complete 3A, before I have only found some from Sasha and Anna and Alena alone. I really look forward to their senior debut, the new programs they‘ll get and how they‘ll battle for the top of the podium like they do now.

I wish we could see videos of Nastya dancing too. Is there actually one of her with the other three from her time at Sambo?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I agree. I love this video because it finally shows the complete 3A, before I have only found some from Sasha and Anna and Alena alone. I really look forward to their senior debut, the new programs they‘ll get and how they‘ll battle for the top of the podium like they do now.

I wish we could see videos of Nastya dancing too. Is there actually one of her with the other three from her time at Sambo?

There are quite a few...but this one in particular she sends Alena running for her life at the very end and starts to dance in Sasha’s space at one point. Anastasia commits with every inch of her body

https://youtu.be/mEZ1b9wQkB4?list=PLXOX1lVmxCIaE8Hla-VyPVGgpGYezjHgD

 

[Alexz]

Also: Is this a new video? I have never seen it before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1BAGf3FxUk

3A dancing.

Yeah, we saw this one long time ago. This video is seriously cool. Anna looks to be the best one there. Alyona seems to be under-rehearshed and lagging behind the choreo, because she probably didn't know the moves as she was constantly watching at the teacher throwing new moves and was trying to catch up on a fly. Sasha and Anna on another hand seems to know this dance routine by heart. I think Alyona has her own dance teacher (probably since Tchaikovskaya time), but she sometimes joins Zheleznyakov to dance with her teammates as well.

Anna is clearly the best "robot" there. She is even slightly better than her dance teacher. There is another longer video where you can compare them side by side, look at Anna taking her dance teacher to school here: https://youtu.be/rIVj4_SjSos

There are a lot of dancing videos by Sambo-70 gang on this playlist: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb21xGZU1XQ&index=5&list=PLXOX1lVmxCIaE8Hla-VyPVGgpGYezjHgD

 

[Scott512]

:agree:

Zhenya was the one who went before the IOC. Zhenya was the one who successfully pleaded a case that athletes from Russia be permitted to compete.

I say that as a “Westerner” (boy I hate those designations and do not find them helpful). If “Westerners” on the IOC had not been convinced, there would have been no OAR at the games.

“What if’s” are pie in the sky. What if someone else had gone? Who knows, who cares What if Nathan Chen had skated a clean short? who knows, who cares.

To be unable to even acknowledge this simple fact. Like wow

Well Evgenia can't tell IOC who to invite and who to not invite The whole point was that no one from Russia was gonna be allowed to compete because of sochi, even if an athlete did not even compete at sochi. Plus she talked about including OAR in the figure skating team event, because it was unclear whether that would be allowed. Her speech only influenced the IOC decision to be more lenient towards Russian athletes, which is a very big accomplishment. How many other athletes decided to go and stand up for their country?

I also want to point out people here are not usually claiming that it is all Eteri and solemnly her achievement. It is the whole figure-skating developmental program in Russia. And they have few of those actually, within different schools, clubs and coaches clans. Besides Eteri always (Ted Barton's interview for instance) points out that Sergei and Daniil are giving the same amount of input and doing the same amount of job as her. So all achievements of Eteri are achievements of her team and the whole Russian figure skating program. They especially have remarkable success in Ladies now. Russian program was falling behind a bit in the 2000's, but they did some soul-searching and came back strong starting 2012-2013. If people are picking on little things and flaws of Russian skaters, fine, but failing to notice the overall success of their developmental program and not thinking to pick up some methods and approaches developed by RusFed and their developmental programs, that's just silly. Fortunately, Japanese coaches are more eager to learn and to improve, otherwise we would have undisputed Russian ladies domination. And that would be a bot too boring.

True.

 

[Scott512]

:agree:

Zhenya was the one who went before the IOC. Zhenya was the one who successfully pleaded a case that athletes from Russia be permitted to compete.

I say that as a “Westerner” (boy I hate those designations and do not find them helpful). If “Westerners” on the IOC had not been convinced, there would have been no OAR at the games.

“What if’s” are pie in the sky. What if someone else had gone? Who knows, who cares What if Nathan Chen had skated a clean short? who knows, who cares.

To be unable to even acknowledge this simple fact. Like wow

Well Evgenia can't tell IOC who to invite and who to not invite The whole point was that no one from Russia was gonna be allowed to compete because of sochi, even if an athlete did not even compete at sochi. Plus she talked about including OAR in the figure skating team event, because it was unclear whether that would be allowed. Her speech only influenced the IOC decision to be more lenient towards Russian athletes, which is a very big accomplishment. How many other athletes decided to go and stand up for their country?

I also want to point out people here are not usually claiming that it is all Eteri and solemnly her achievement. It is the whole figure-skating developmental program in Russia. And they have few of those actually, within different schools, clubs and coaches clans. Besides Eteri always (Ted Barton's interview for instance) points out that Sergei and Daniil are giving the same amount of input and doing the same amount of job as her. So all achievements of Eteri are achievements of her team and the whole Russian figure skating program. They especially have remarkable success in Ladies now. Russian program was falling behind a bit in the 2000's, but they did some soul-searching and came back strong starting 2012-2013. If people are picking on little things and flaws of Russian skaters, fine, but failing to notice the overall success of their developmental program and not thinking to pick up some methods and approaches developed by RusFed and their developmental programs, that's just silly. Fortunately, Japanese coaches are more eager to learn and to improve, otherwise we would have undisputed Russian ladies domination. And that would be a bot too boring.

Yes, some posters here want us to believe that Japanese skaters overall have better posture and skating skills than the Russians especially those who are with Eteri who is just the genius of maximizing scores. Nothing new.

Oh, OK. Dang, it is gonna be tough for Olympics selection committee. 6-8 great skaters for 3 spots.

I hope some day skaters get picked by rankings. If Russia has 7 of the top 10 in 3 years but only have 3 spots for Olympics it will look bad for isu. Not that they should have 7 spots but more than 3 will be required.

The issue with this thread is that many posters come here who do not like the Russians and Eteri. I would never do that in Canadian or Japanese ladies threads.but to each their own.

Has any coach in any discipline ever had the talent over a few years than Eteri has? Yulia to Zhenya to Alina to Sasha to Anna to Alena to Kamila to many others coming up? All different too. I have never seen anything like it. Yes it's not just Eteri it's Sergie and Danil too.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I hope some day skaters get picked by rankings. If Russia has 7 of the top 10 in 3 years but only have 3 spots for Olympics it will look bad for isu. Not that they should have 7 spots but more than 3 will be required.

The Olympics will always be limited by Nation. It’s just the way it’s intended to be. Every sport in the Olympics does this.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I hope some day skaters get picked by rankings. If Russia has 7 of the top 10 in 3 years but only have 3 spots for Olympics it will look bad for isu. Not that they should have 7 spots but more than 3 will be required.

The issue with this thread is that many posters come here who do not like the Russians and Eteri. I would never do that in Canadian or Japanese ladies threads.but to each their own.

Has any coach in any discipline ever had the talent over a few years than Eteri has? Yulia to Zhenya to Alina to Sasha to Anna to Alena to Kamila to many others coming up? All different too. I have never seen anything like it. Yes it's not just Eteri it's Sergie and Danil too.

I have said this many times, I believe. Just because you like the skaters, doesn't have to mean you like the coach. I, for instance LOVE the majority of russian ladies and a lot of Eteris team. Does that mean I agree with Eteris coaching methods? No, not at all. I think it's remarkable what she has done and achieved, but I think that she has some quedtionable methods. To name at least something, like how she dragged Zhenya across the ice whenever she fell(source, documentary "of Ice and Fire" on youtube) and the weigh ins, which I don't think we need to dsicuss further. And I don't want to say that she is the only coach that has questionable methods, but it just is fact, that she is in the spotlight, and has had some questionable interviews by her skaters, like when Alina said that she even controls her water intake, which is absolute madness. So, it really confuses me when people here seem to only accept one opinion and everything else is apparantly trolling because it doesn't praise, particularly team eteri, a certain skater to the heavens, but pointing out room for improvement.

 

[Edwin]

Is there any danger at present the IOC will reduce the number of participants in figure skating, like they did with gymnastics?
Figure skating is one of the big events with some of the most coveted medals in winter sports, but with sponsor and TV interests sometimes prevailing over wisdom one never knows.