2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[DSQ]

Should have been able to ask a ISU official personally, since the 2019 EC in short track was held in The Netherlands this weekend, with several Gold Medals won by my countrymen and -women, as in speed skating

One by mine too! Elise Christie from Scotland!

 

[[email protected]]

All of the items you quoted are relevant to Russian Ladies skating, I don’t understand why it bothers you that people share their opinions on some of the Russian ladies. Why does everyone have to come here and praise the skaters? Pointing out areas that they wish to see improved upon is completely valid.

I want to understand how someone views certainl skills as “very good” when from my trained eye they aren’t.

Tell me what makes crossovers good to you and why.

In my critique I was very specific about what the issue with the crossovers was. I wasn’t vague, I gave specific example of areas for improvement.

If you with your trained eye say for the hundredth time here how poor SS of Russian ladies are, neither the reality changes nor anyone who has trained or untrained eye will change their mind if they don't think so.

And once again, the tolerance we have here is just amazing. Whenever I tried to raise any critique in US, Canadian or Japanese ladies threads there was an immediate avalanche of responses on how dare I to bring negativity.

 

[Metis]

If you with your trained eye say for the hundredth time here how poor SS of Russian ladies are, neither the reality changes nor anyone who has trained or untrained eye will change their mind if they don't think so.

That’s not true, though. Also, you’re misrepresenting the criticism. I said I think Sasha’s edges are sharp and that she has good speed. I also said I wouldn’t rate her skating skills as extraordinary, but that skaters have natural talents in different areas — Sasha has an innate spring that make her jumps explosive, for example. Which is not even remotely the same as saying “Sasha has bad skating skills” or “I prefer ladies from X country.”

I love Kaori. I will also tell you she has a flutz. Her upper body movement and control are a matter of taste, to an extent — I like her style but am also happy to stipulate she isn’t the most refined in that aspect. That’s not harsh criticism but noting an aspect that can be improved. Plenty of us feel the same way about the Russian ladies: we like them but also see areas in which they can grow. Which is how skating works? You want your favourites to keep honing their craft and to fulfill all of their potential.

If this thread is just a place for people to stan the Russian women, why not call it the Russian Ladies General Fan Fest and move it there?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Going by her skates today (and earlier) Maya Kromykh has made a very good case for inclusion at junior nationals by coaches' council. She beat out everyone except Valieva today, even beating JGPF medalist Alena Kanysheva. She's upgraded her tech content, too, going from 2 3Los and 2 3Ts to 2 3Lzs and 2 3Los.

 

[eaglehelang]

And once again, the tolerance we have here is just amazing. Whenever I tried to raise any critique in US, Canadian or Japanese ladies threads there was an immediate avalanche of responses on how dare I to bring negativity.

This paragraph especially I find not to be true.

There was quite a lot of criticism raised towards Gracie Gold regarding her comeback performance at 2018 Rostelecom Cup. In more than 1 thread in the Edge. I myself raised some concerns. There was also discussion on Karen Chen's constant boot problems.

The Japanese ladies- there have been discussion on their strengths and weaknesses. Even in the Fan fests.

Discussion is more active in the men threads. The US men threads been active with criticism on Vincent Zhou(more like his coach Tom Z's comments on social media) and lately Jason Brown.
If in the Chinese(China) figure skating thread, there's even discussion on politics and its influence, with all sorts of speculations and criticism of China fed, the coaches, etc etc.

 

[malya]

Going by her skates today (and earlier) Maya Kromykh has made a very good case for inclusion at junior nationals by coaches' council. She beat out everyone except Valieva today, even beating JGPF medalist Alena Kanysheva. She's upgraded her tech content, too, going from 2 3Los and 2 3Ts to 2 3Lzs and 2 3Los.

Does the council have to kick someone else or can jrNats have more participants?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Does the council have to kick someone else or can jrNats have more participants?

I think they'd kick out the current lowest participant (in this example: Eva Kobzar)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

If this thread is just a place for people to stan the Russian women, why not call it the Russian Ladies General Fan Fest and move it there?

I’m 100% about this idea. Let’s make it a fan fest!!! I wouldn’t and don’t mind a healthy discussion but am so tired of the few who only show up with criticism and nothing else. There is so much to celebrate and appreciate among the skaters who are discussed in this thread that when someone’s main topic is criticism...I think we all know it’s just trolling at that point.

IMO a few people are abusing the idea of constructive criticism in this thread and I agree with Sam that they aren’t fans of Russian Ladies skating in general. YMMV.

 

[alvina9894]

I think they'd kick out the current lowest participant (in this example: Eva Kobzar)

I would feel very sorry for Eva then, should she be robbed.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Going by her skates today (and earlier) Maya Kromykh has made a very good case for inclusion at junior nationals by coaches' council. She beat out everyone except Valieva today, even beating JGPF medalist Alena Kanysheva. She's upgraded her tech content, too, going from 2 3Los and 2 3Ts to 2 3Lzs and 2 3Los.

Is that Polina Shelepen’s student?

 

[neud]

Is that Polina Shelepen’s student?

That is Eteri Tutberidze's student.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

All of the items you quoted are relevant to Russian Ladies skating, I don’t understand why it bothers you that people share their opinions on some of the Russian ladies. Why does everyone have to come here and praise the skaters? Pointing out areas that they wish to see improved upon is completely valid.

I want to understand how someone views certainl skills as “very good” when from my trained eye they aren’t.

Tell me what makes crossovers good to you and why.

In my critique I was very specific about what the issue with the crossovers was. I wasn’t vague, I gave specific example of areas for improvement.

Good crossovers are not equal, nor they are the only merritt of good skating skills. It may be for you but its not for ISU and the judges. ISU criterias for SS are:
- Use of deep edges, steps and turns
- Balance, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement
- Flow and glide
- Varies use of power, speed and acceleration
- Use of multi directional skating
- Use of one foot skating
When they are judging SS judges are looking how one skater did in every of those criterias. So, someone who is for example very good in crossovers, which means in use of deep edges, flow and glide and balance and precision will get lower mark than someone who demonstrated steps and turns, variety in speed/acceleration, use of multidirectional skating and use of one foot skating, because later demonstrated more criterias SS are formed of.

 

[zounger]

I don't want this thread to become fanfest, it will be boring. Of course some time there is a one way criticism, but even then I think we can conclude some interesting point of views.

 

[rachno2]

Going by her skates today (and earlier) Maya Kromykh has made a very good case for inclusion at junior nationals by coaches' council. She beat out everyone except Valieva today, even beating JGPF medalist Alena Kanysheva. She's upgraded her tech content, too, going from 2 3Los and 2 3Ts to 2 3Lzs and 2 3Los.

What is the selection process like for Junior Nationals? Do you need to accumulate a certain number of points at Cup events, as for Senior Nats? Is selection by couches council common?

Regarding the posture discourse, all I will say (and hopefully no more) is that it didn’t come out of nowhere. Somebody posted a video of Valieva (whose flexibility, spins and jump height I do like btw) and that is what prompted the discussion about cross-cuts, skating skills and posture. I don’t think the original intent was to bash Alina just for the hell of it, though one poster who joined in has a history of doing just that. And that is frustrating and obnoxious, I agree.

Somebody a few pages back mentioned Kanysheva’s low PCS, and I agree, though her skates here obviously weren’t perfect. I really like Panova’s girls and hope they aren’t discouraged by the low scoring. I think we can all agree that we don’t want to see a mass exodus to Buyanova

 

[andromache]

I’m 100% about this idea. Let’s make it a fan fest!!! I wouldn’t and don’t mind a healthy discussion but am so tired of the few who only show up with criticism and nothing else. There is so much to celebrate and appreciate among the skaters who are discussed in this thread that when someone’s main topic is criticism...I think we all know it’s just trolling at that point.

IMO a few people are abusing the idea of constructive criticism in this thread and I agree with Sam that they aren’t fans of Russian Ladies skating in general. YMMV.

When there is a user that repeatedly posts content that you actively dislike, use the ignore function. I feel like that would eliminate 99% of the fights that happen in this thread.

IMO, individual fan fest threads are fine for appreciating individual Russian ladies. A general Russian ladies fan fest would be doomed to become a contest of who can say the most passive aggressive thing or subtle insult about Evgenia or Alina (or whatever new Russian lady fan wars happen in the future).

 

[Metis]

Regarding the posture discourse, all I will say (and hopefully no more) is that it didn’t come out of nowhere. Somebody posted a video of Valieva, and that is what prompted the discussion about cross-cuts, skating skills and posture. I would never go into a thread and start bashing Alina or anyone else just for the hell of it. Some posters unfortunately do like to do that, and I agree it is frustrating.

The only time I’ll discuss flaws in a skater’s fan fest is if there’s already a conversation about them (such as the one in Zagitova’s in which someone asked why it’s said she has bad posture and what that means). But this isn’t a fan fest. And, hey, it isn’t just Eteri’s students. I love Tuktamysheva and I always will, but she isn’t exactly Patrick Chan. Her edgework is secure and fluid but her edges aren’t particularly deep and she’s not especially fast over the ice.

I know the CSKA girls aren’t exactly beloved around here, but Sotskova has great skating skills. So does Konstantinova. Deep edges. Beautiful flow across the ice. Excellent upper body control. I don’t know what comes next for poor Masha — I’m not saying the calls she was given this season were unfair, but she wasn’t the only skater (of any nationality) who deserved them, yet she was the TP’s chew toy. If ice dance weren’t so crowded, I’d say she should switch disciplines.

 

[rachno2]

The only time I’ll discuss flaws in a skater’s fan fest is if there’s already a conversation about them (such as the one in Zagitova’s in which someone asked why it’s said she has bad posture and what that means). But this isn’t a fan fest. And, hey, it isn’t just Eteri’s students. I love Tuktamysheva and I always will, but she isn’t exactly Patrick Chan. Her edgework is secure and fluid but her edges aren’t particularly deep and she’s not especially fast over the ice.

I know the CSKA girls aren’t exactly beloved around here, but Sotskova has great skating skills. So does Konstantinova. Deep edges. Beautiful flow across the ice. Excellent upper body control. I don’t know what comes next for poor Masha — I’m not saying the calls she was given this season were unfair, but she wasn’t the only skater (of any nationality) who deserved them, yet she was the TP’s chew toy. If ice dance weren’t so crowded, I’d say she should switch disciplines.

I wasn’t talking about you, because you used Zagitova as an illustrative example when we were talking about Valieva and the way Eteri teaches skating skills. That is more constructive than making a nationally-charged blanket statement, like “the Russian ladies have a long way to go to catch up to the Japanese ladies, but people here are too enamored to care.” One is contributing to the discussion, the other is trying to get a rise out of posters.

Agree about Sotskova she has been doing a lot of ice shows recently, so maybe that is in her future?

 

[DanseMacabre]

I know the CSKA girls aren’t exactly beloved around here, but Sotskova has great skating skills. So does Konstantinova. Deep edges. Beautiful flow across the ice. Excellent upper body control. I don’t know what comes next for poor Masha — I’m not saying the calls she was given this season were unfair, but she wasn’t the only skater (of any nationality) who deserved them, yet she was the TP’s chew toy. If ice dance weren’t so crowded, I’d say she should switch disciplines.

Sotskova's beautiful deep edges are my favorite part about her skating. The jumps may have fled but the skating skills are there to stay. And while Konstantinova is a bit like human Ambien to me (she seems like a sweet girl but my mind wanders when she skates), I can't deny that her fundamental skating qualities are superb. I see what TAT likes about her. There's a classic cleanliness to her skating that I can appreciate even if she isn't the most exciting competitor. She and Sotskova have so much polish.

 

[zounger]

I know the CSKA girls aren’t exactly beloved around here, but Sotskova has great skating skills. So does Konstantinova. Deep edges. (

I don't think that they are not beloved. Particularly I like Gubanova a lot. I don't know much about skating in deep, but I like how she skates on one foot. To my eye what she does, is very pleasing.

 

[Tolstoj]

Somebody a few pages back mentioned Kanysheva’s low PCS, and I agree, though her skates here obviously weren’t perfect. I really like Panova’s girls and hope they aren’t discouraged by the low scoring. I think we can all agree that we don’t want to see a mass exodus to Buyanova

At this point i can't find a good reason to move Buyanova besides money. They are working better in Men's figure skating.

Kanysheva's low PCS is mostly due to Junior scoring which is heavily based on your technical abilities, and even if you are the most artistic skater you get 0.50 or 1 point more overall than the rest of the competition so not worth it there, but in seniors it's different.

That's why i think staying juniors when you can move to seniors is rarely a good idea in ladies figure skating nowadays

The only time I’ll discuss flaws in a skater’s fan fest is if there’s already a conversation about them (such as the one in Zagitova’s in which someone asked why it’s said she has bad posture and what that means). But this isn’t a fan fest. And, hey, it isn’t just Eteri’s students. I love Tuktamysheva and I always will, but she isn’t exactly Patrick Chan. Her edgework is secure and fluid but her edges aren’t particularly deep and she’s not especially fast over the ice.

I know the CSKA girls aren’t exactly beloved around here, but Sotskova has great skating skills. So does Konstantinova. Deep edges. Beautiful flow across the ice. Excellent upper body control. I don’t know what comes next for poor Masha — I’m not saying the calls she was given this season were unfair, but she wasn’t the only skater (of any nationality) who deserved them, yet she was the TP’s chew toy. If ice dance weren’t so crowded, I’d say she should switch disciplines.

It's not that we don't like them, and yes Sotskova is a very good quality skater but the issues on the jumps are very clear and when you create that impression, judges are not going to reward you much even when you skate clean. Think about Polina Edmunds.

It's a shame cause i think both Masha and Polina could still be very successful skaters as they were previously, it's just a matter of work harder on jumps and spins levels with people who care about these things, and i wish Buyanova and her team gets better at that cause all their skaters always leave a lot of points.

Konstantinova skates big and with character, she should calm more her upper body though, you can feel the nerves in her skating sometimes (similar to Pogorilaya in her first years).