2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Jontor]

I agree with you.

I would probably never have discovered figure skating if it wasn´t for Anne Line Gjersem participating in OG. So I started to look at the big competitions because of her, and my interested kept growing as I also at the same time discovered other talented skaters! Figure skating isn´t that popular sport in Norway, but Sondre Oddvolls Bøe recent presentation has led to several recent media coverage and more followers in Norway. This also makes younger skaters inspired and keep going, when they see what is possible for small federation, that will inspire starting figure s kating. Also sponsor in Norway is really difficult, but having a rising star could make a difference.

If the system hadn´t been like this, Sondre would probably have given up long time ago, because it would seem impossible to get at spot in the big competition, and therefor no motivation to continue. Remember that a lot of countrys don´t have the ice hall, the funding, the oppurtinity to develop skaters from young age, for several reasons, mostly culture. So they start later, develop later.

If you change the rules, and there isn´t a maximum 3 spots per country in the big competitionts, it would mean a lot of skaters from small federation would never make it, fewer will be inspired to start skate from those countrys, so eventually I believe the only one skating would be from USA, Japan and Russian, where there is culture for starting early, there is the conditions, there is sponsor and money. There will probably also be less fans around the world, who like to follow and have the interest if they havn´t a reason for discovering the sport, or follow one national skater.

Figure skating like it is now is a more including world sport. Which it should be. I also love the fact that you get to see different culture in the skating, like music choice, style etc.

Also like someone mentions, the is requirements for participating in Euros and Worlds. You have to have the TES and the skaters participating are not amateurs.

I try to see all the groups in the championship, but may skip a group due to lack of time. But it has nothing to with that i´m bored by early group skaters. I also see small competitions. I love to see new skaters, potensial, who has developed. Of course I also love too see the really good skaters with quads, which are very technical and have nice jumps. But also there is a lot of skaters which are just basically technical and doesn´t have musicality, a boring choreo and gives me nothing, also remember this sport is about art. Actually the norwegian word for figure skating is "kunstløp", which can be translated into "art skating".

I get the arguments for just 3 spots. Figure Skating needs to be more globalised. But I think 4 spots is the way to go though. Then you would have a better balance between the best and the rest. It's mostly 4 spots that is the quota for most winter sports. I don't think Norway would appreciate if it was down to only 3 spots in Cross Country Skiing!?!?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

What’s the first segment of younger age nationals? I looked at protocols from last year and I was baffled. Kanysheva (the leader) just jumped 2 3Lzs, 1 3Lz+3T and 1 3Lz+3Lo (along with a step sequence and combo spin). And the lutz toe was invalidated? And there were no PCS? And although the TES was 28, the final score was 56!

It's the elements combination.
No PCS scores, just TES x 2 for the total segment score.
Skaters do a jump combination and a solo jump, each with a second attempt if they miss the first, and then one spin and one step sequence (both leveled).

This is where Alena Kanysheva first did 3Lz-3Lo

 

[Sugar Coated]

I know we are all excited about who will go. Seems like only Sofia is guaranteed lol. What a choice. I went on youtube and one lady said most likely it is Alina, Sofia and Liza with Evgenia first alternate with a good chance to g o to worlds because Alina has not been fully practising. Whatever is the situation it will be a bit sad one of these four ladies is not going. All good points. Liza had the better overall season. Liza is recovering from pneumonia - this is a positive and negative. Alina has been going down each competition. Evgenia has been slowly gaining strength. UR issues for Alina and Evgenia. Evgenia having issues with edge on the Lutz. Alina recovering fromm whatever.

So much to consider. A skate off now before worlds might just sap more out of them so inthe end it hurts the russian team. I thought Liza might have just won the Russian Cup and Evtgenia would show her problems still but that wasn't the case. Though it wasn't much of a win.

Where did you get the info that Alina is not practicing and that she may drop out of Worlds? Do you have a link? I’d be interested to see this.

 

[Sugar Coated]

You mean Conservative voters. On a very basic superficial level: Liberal's fundamentally are for equal distribution of wealth by proxy. Meaning, they look at the economy being healthy on a macro level. Conservative's fundamentally are for supplying the economy on a micro level. They believe an economy is healthiest when each person controls their own wealth and distribute it as they feel fit. Therefore a Liberal would fundamentally believe in many people funding another child's sport for the greater good and a Conservative believes in singularly taking ownership and funding their own child's sport.

Completely agree. This is absolutely true for the US. Conservatives in general advocate decreasing money spent on education and public programs for children as they believe that is the responsibility of the individual and private sectors. This is one of the reasons schools have cut out physical education or decreased it significantly.

I do wonder if other nations have different associations with liberal and conservatives. I could see conservatives being tied to nationalistic viewpoints and therefore advocating tax money spent on sport. In the US, sport is viewed through a capitalistic lens in that being a great athlete is an opportunity to earn money for college or go pro to earn money/endorsements. It’s much less about national pride. Our most famous and well paid athletes don’t even participate in the Olympics (partly because american football and baseball are not in the Olympics, but most of the elite NBA players don’t feel it’s a priority and would not want to risk injury).

This is why I could see potentially associating funding sport with conservative politics. Similar to the way in the US our conservatives are very much about increasing funding of the military despite the philosophy generally standing for smaller government and decreased national spending.

 

[Jontor]

Gubanova only had one 3-3 combo. She lost a lot of base value by doing two 3-2 combos

She had one less triple. Yes. Let's say that's about 5-6 points. But there was a difference of 14 points between her and Medvedeva. Gubanova was the only one - again - who had a level 4 Step Seq. And the rest of the TES content was higher too. They both had a fall, I think Medvedeva's was nastier, so it all comes down to PCS where obviously the judges favoured Med - a lot. And I just don't understand it. Am I blind or what? Gubanova was flowing through the ice when I thought Medvedeva was heavy and scratchy. Can someone explain to me why Medvedeva's skate was so much better? Because I don't see it. In my book Gubanova made up for that triple loss by far by better TES (including GOEs of course) and by better PCS too. Still Medvedeva beat Gubanova - 14 points. And don't get me started with Tuktamysheva vs Medvedeva - that was just a joke and Liza lost unfortunatety.

You can rewatch Tuktamysheva, Gubanova, Medvedeva here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEAZYNhN9jo
1.12.37 - 1.36.52

 

[flanker]

I know we are all excited about who will go. Seems like only Sofia is guaranteed lol. What a choice. I went on youtube and one lady said most likely it is Alina, Sofia and Liza with Evgenia first alternate with a good chance to g o to worlds because Alina has not been fully practising. Whatever is the situation it will be a bit sad one of these four ladies is not going. All good points. Liza had the better overall season. Liza is recovering from pneumonia - this is a positive and negative. Alina has been going down each competition. Evgenia has been slowly gaining strength. UR issues for Alina and Evgenia. Evgenia having issues with edge on the Lutz. Alina recovering fromm whatever.

So much to consider. A skate off now before worlds might just sap more out of them so inthe end it hurts the russian team. I thought Liza might have just won the Russian Cup and Evtgenia would show her problems still but that wasn't the case. Though it wasn't much of a win.

I would really like to know who can figure out that "Alina has been going down each competition". It's like a hundred times repeated lie becoming truth. I doubt most people even look at the real results. There are drops and rises, but they portray it completely wrong, so:

238.43 (+159.19 FS at JO)
215.29 (drop, but then rise for three continuous competitions)
222.95
226.53
212.03
198.34

So, there are only last two, where her score went down, not like "since Nebelhorn" or whatever nonsense.

BTW, just try to compare her last season results, you can see that despite winnings she wasn't always so high:

218.45 (+145.28 at JO)
213.88
213.80
223.30
233.59
238.24
239.57
207.72

Yes, she had a peak during RusNats, Euros and Olympics, but you can see that on all three GP events she even scored higher this season than the last (with less friendly scoring system) - yet some people talk about dropping down. The only two things that give ammunition to this storm are only the last two competitions, not the whole season. And that is not because she would lack strength or skating skills. Everybody can see her clean runthru's at trainings before competitions, everybody can see her ex program two 3Lz and one 3Lz+3Lo combo. Who dares to have such difficult "only" gala program. Only her.

The problems come with her burden, extreme expectations from publi and with people who impatiently wait for the smallest mistake just to have the ammunition to fire at her. On these circumstances I still think she fights extremely well, so everyone who is interrested in her just to criticize her should calm down a little.

 

[Mathman]

You mean Conservative voters. On a very basic superficial level: Liberal's fundamentally are for equal distribution of wealth by proxy. Meaning, they look at the economy being healthy on a macro level. Conservative's fundamentally are for supplying the economy on a micro level. They believe an economy is healthiest when each person controls their own wealth and distribute it as they feel fit. Therefore a Liberal would fundamentally believe in many people funding another child's sport for the greater good and a Conservative believes in singularly taking ownership and funding their own child's sport.

I do wonder if other nations have different associations with liberal and conservatives.

I am pretty sure SugarCoated is right. Liberalism means something quite different in Europe than it has come to mean in the U.S. (For one thing there are no Labour Parties, etc., of any significance in the U.S.)

Wikipedia says about "European liberalism"

n general, liberalism in Europe is a political movement that supports a broad tradition of individual liberties and constitutionally-limited and democratically accountable government. This usually encompasses the belief that government should act to alleviate poverty and other social problems, but not through radical changes to the structure of society. Supporters of classical liberalism are mainly found in centrist movements and parties; however, supporters of other versions of liberalism are found in political parties across the left and right spectrum.

European liberals in the centre-right generally favor limited government intervention in economy.

In other words, liberals are conservatives, conservatives are royaists, workers parties are socialist, etc., etc.

The word "liberal" just means "free" -- as in, you are free to spend your money however you please, and the king should butt out of your affairs.

 

[Ophelia]

Chiming into the political science discussion:

Sugarcoated and Mathman are correct in that the traditional meaning of liberalism is different from liberalism as its used in US politics. The traditional (aka European version) was founded by John Locke in his Two Treatises of Government and defined the authority of government as being derived from the people and set it subservient to the individual's three natural rights, which directly opposed the "divine right of kings" theory that Europe was operating on at that time.

Source: Attended one too many political science x economics PhD classes in grad school.

[This post concerns political theory and not politics itself so it should not violate forum rules.]

Okay, now back to the topic.

 

[malya]

Does somebody know if something happened to Sima? She didn't look well in Germany either and I just read an article about the Cup Final where they mentioned in passind she was only able to leave the Arena (or the ice?) with help of doctors.

(Or maybe I hopefully just misunderstood something because without google translate to double check I dont trust my basic russian )

 

[Stlcomet]

Do you even bother to read all the disccusion before answering with this long comment?
1. My comment about Alina's and Evgenia's performances at Euros (this season and last season) were as a reply to other comments in which the two of them were compared to these particular competitions.
2. My convinction is that Alina should have been made to skate at Russian Cup Final like all the other 3 ladies.
3. Yes, she needs the RusFed more than the RusFed needs her. It is naive to think otherwise.
PS Please read before commenting and make sure you understand the context of the comments. i dont want to waste my time to answer to this type of replies. Thanks!

Perhaps including the quote(s) in your answer would help with the confusion. People are reading comments, not user names.

I would really like to know who can figure out that "Alina has been going down each competition". It's like a hundred times repeated lie becoming truth. I doubt most people even look at the real results. There are drops and rises, but they portray it completely wrong, so:

238.43 (+159.19 FS at JO)
215.29 (drop, but then rise for three continuous competitions)
222.95
226.53
212.03
198.34

So, there are only last two, where her score went down, not like "since Nebelhorn" or whatever nonsense.

BTW, just try to compare her last season results, you can see that despite winnings she wasn't always so high:

218.45 (+145.28 at JO)
213.88
213.80
223.30
233.59
238.24
239.57
207.72

Yes, she had a peak during RusNats, Euros and Olympics, but you can see that on all three GP events she even scored higher this season than the last (with less friendly scoring system) - yet some people talk about dropping down. The only two things that give ammunition to this storm are only the last two competitions, not the whole season. And that is not because she would lack strength or skating skills. Everybody can see her clean runthru's at trainings before competitions, everybody can see her ex program two 3Lz and one 3Lz+3Lo combo. Who dares to have such difficult "only" gala program. Only her.

The problems come with her burden, extreme expectations from publi and with people who impatiently wait for the smallest mistake just to have the ammunition to fire at her. On these circumstances I still think she fights extremely well, so everyone who is interrested in her just to criticize her should calm down a little.

The scoring system was revised after last year's Worlds. The scores are going to be lower because they lowered the base value of jumps, increased the UR to "less then a quarter turn", and edited the bonus for jumps in the second half to max of 1 in Short and 3 in Long in an attempt to equal out the technical and artistic scores. They did change the GOE multiplayer of an element to -5 to +5 to better distinguish poor vs average vs exceptional but it doesn't come close to making up for the points being replaced.

 

[Stlcomet]

I am pretty sure SugarCoated is right. Liberalism means something quite different in Europe than it has come to mean in the U.S. (For one thing there are no Labour Parties, etc., of any significance in the U.S.)

Wikipedia says about "European liberalism"



In other words, liberals are conservatives, conservatives are royaists, workers parties are socialist, etc., etc.

The word "liberal" just means "free" -- as in, you are free to spend your money however you please, and the king should butt out of your affairs.

Just so it doesn't look like 'I drunk texted' lol I erased my comment because I forgot it's against forum rules to discuss politics, not because I was ashamed by it. But I agree with what everyone said in regards!

 

[Scott512]

I also think that giving the defending champion an automatic wildcard would be the most elegant solution.
1. It would be something that in theory everyone could benefit from
2. Small fed skaters still get thd chance to improve and maybe become great

I don’t understand why the argument shifted from Liza vs. Zhenya to Alina vs. Zhenya, because 1. Alina is even more qualified than Liza and 2. this argument shouldn’t exist in the first place because both Liza and Alina would be better suited. Zhenya is doing great and I really hope she maintains the second highest WS in Russia to be invited to WTT, but for worlds, Alina, Sofia, Liza is the best way to go.

Once again on the green card for the defending champion. Method proven for many sports. You can do it even tomorrow at no extra cost, and it certainly will not hurt anyone.

Where did you get the info that Alina is not practicing and that she may drop out of Worlds? Do you have a link? I’d be interested to see this.

She had one less triple. Yes. Let's say that's about 5-6 points. But there was a difference of 14 points between her and Medvedeva. Gubanova was the only one - again - who had a level 4 Step Seq. And the rest of the TES content was higher too. They both had a fall, I think Medvedeva's was nastier, so it all comes down to PCS where obviously the judges favoured Med - a lot. And I just don't understand it. Am I blind or what? Gubanova was flowing through the ice when I thought Medvedeva was heavy and scratchy. Can someone explain to me why Medvedeva's skate was so much better? Because I don't see it. In my book Gubanova made up for that triple loss by far by better TES (including GOEs of course) and by better PCS too. Still Medvedeva beat Gubanova - 14 points. And don't get me started with Tuktamysheva vs Medvedeva - that was just a joke and Liza lost unfortunatety.

You can rewatch Tuktamysheva, Gubanova, Medvedeva here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEAZYNhN9jo
1.12.37 - 1.36.52

You are not blind. It had to be hard on Nastya to always be underscored. But she has to take her beautiful skating to the next level next season with more difficult higher scoring programs.

As for world's Alina is going and so is Masaru! If she (Alina) is healthy there is 0 % chance she doesn't go to world's..

 

[CellarDweller]

I can't even think of why speculation is starting that Alina won't be on the World's team. She's the reigning OGM, European silver medalist, and (correct me if I'm wrong) based on the competitions before Worlds, doesn't she have the best record of the Russian skaters?

If she's ill or injured, that's different, but do you really think the Russian Federation wouldn't name her to the World Team? I just can't see that happening.

 

[Ophelia]

^Bc ppl are bored and we need to speculate to fill up the time it takes for RusFed to announce the team.

 

[eaglehelang]

She had one less triple. Yes. Let's say that's about 5-6 points. But there was a difference of 14 points between her and Medvedeva. Gubanova was the only one - again - who had a level 4 Step Seq. And the rest of the TES content was higher too. They both had a fall, I think Medvedeva's was nastier, so it all comes down to PCS where obviously the judges favoured Med - a lot. And I just don't understand it. Am I blind or what? Gubanova was flowing through the ice when I thought Medvedeva was heavy and scratchy. Can someone explain to me why Medvedeva's skate was so much better? Because I don't see it. In my book Gubanova made up for that triple loss by far by better TES (including GOEs of course) and by better PCS too. Still Medvedeva beat Gubanova - 14 points. And don't get me started with Tuktamysheva vs Medvedeva - that was just a joke and Liza lost unfortunatety.

You can rewatch Tuktamysheva, Gubanova, Medvedeva here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEAZYNhN9jo
1.12.37 - 1.36.52

I watched the whole Ladies FS. I'm starting to notice the difference in Evgenia vs the other Russian Ladies programs.
Evgenia's is starting to have the TCC style, can see Tracy Wilson's work here. She gets into character which is a plus that Evgenia & Elizaveta have over other Russian ladies.
Though for Liza its more subdued cos she just recovered from illness.
Gubanova, Russian style but she tries to sell it. Ok, but not memorable.

Its like some people compare why Cha Jun hwan with just 4S & 4T in FS can score higher than the guys who landed 3 quads or who have 4Lutz.
I would regard young Cha as a TCC 'product' who just skates whats given to him(compared to Yuzuru, Javier, even Jason Brown who add their personal style) -> and he can score higher than some men who have more difficult quads.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I will always remember Gubanova :yes:

 

[j00mla]

I watched the whole Ladies FS. I'm starting to notice the difference in Evgenia vs the other Russian Ladies programs.
Evgenia's is starting to have the TCC style, can see Tracy Wilson's work here. She gets into character which is a plus that Evgenia & Elizaveta have over other Russian ladies.
Though for Liza its more subdued cos she just recovered from illness.
Gubanova, Russian style but she tries to sell it. Ok, but not memorable.

I didn't get characters of Evgenia at all, in contrast with Leonova and Talalaikina for example.
Gubanova's program is not "Russian style", it's the world way to use not vigorous beautiful music for the lovely figure skater - in every country you can find a lot of programs that will lose absolutely nothing if music, costume, choreo sequences will be changed for something similar.

 

[[email protected]]

I do hate the quota rule in all sports, but understand the absolute need for them. The purpose of the Olympic's mission is to decrease nationalism, educate, and bring the world together through a common interest, sport. So participation from as many countries is obviously the goal, and to do that you need to include as many sports that have universal participation to fit in the 2 weeks of the Olympic Games. Sports are cut and added every cycle.

Whatever the purpose of the Olympic mission was back in 1896 the reality today is quite different. But that's not my point. My point is that the qualifiers will make it possible to preserve the participation of smaller federations while at the same time letting all the best athletes compete.

Where did you get the info that Alina is not practicing and that she may drop out of Worlds? Do you have a link? I’d be interested to see this.

Yes, I would appreciate as well the evidence for such a statement.

 

[Georgya]

DARIA PANENKOVA: "I WOULD RETURN TO TUTBERIDZE." (google translate)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtYavcrkQWw

Is it really that what she said? Someone who knows russian please help

 

[malya]

DARIA PANENKOVA: "I WOULD RETURN TO TUTBERIDZE." (google translate)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtYavcrkQWw

Is it really that what she said? Someone who knows russian please help

(this Interviewer is not somebody you want to see Interview people connected with FS)

Dasha says positive stuff about Team Tutberitze as far as I can tell. No scandal, even though I expected different. The Interviewer tries though

It looks like she wants to fight next season for a spot. She doesn't exclude a return to Team Tutberitze but there is nothing planned like it.