2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Georgya]

Katarina Witt congratulated Alina: From „Carmen“ to „Carmen“ https://www.instagram.com/p/BvUQFVshHSR/

 

[[email protected]]

By the way - are you suggesting that male skaters do not need to have their coaches there every day but that ladies do? That seems unlikely - it probably just depends on each skater, and maybe the ages of the skaters as well. Older skaters can handle more independence in their training. But if an older skater prefers more coach involvement like Tursynbaeva does, that's okay too.

In Medvedeva/Tursynbaeva case we are talking about quite young girls who got used to a lot of attention. And they are not just another girl at the rink especially Medvedeva. Neglecting that, I believe, is a big coaching mistake. If a "long distance coaching" was a skaters' experience since childhood, of course, she/he will handle it differently. Saying that I am just curious how Raf-Eusoon cooperation works. She came from another country, she claims to train 10 hours a day (it was said on the Russian TV), she shows a very good progress. Is Raf more Orser or Eteri type coach with her?

 

[moriel]

if you watched closely over this season alina has progressively gotten quite a bit thicker to point where it must be intentional. i think her days of trying to keep her jumps are close to over. her jumps have been bigger, with more pop, much better than when she was stick thin. it seems like they've figured out that alina doesn't actually need to starve herself to have beautiful jumps and are focusing on more muscle power. she is significantly bigger than at the olympics (and i mean this in the best way) and her jumps still got better. all she needs now is her consistency

and there has been major technique adjustment,she's using her legs more and her body less. do you really think she's just been starving herself and trying the same thing when it was obvious that it wasn't gonna work anymore lol? obviously there was major overhaul in her training.

I actually suspect, based on her looks, that they may indeed want her to work on a quad, and are building strength for that.

 

[moriel]

In Medvedeva/Tursynbaeva case we are talking about quite young girls who got used to a lot of attention. And they are not just another girl at the rink especially Medvedeva. Neglecting that, I believe, is a big coaching mistake. If a "long distance coaching" was a skaters' experience since childhood, of course, she/he will handle it differently. Saying that I am just curious how Raf-Eusoon cooperation works. She came from another country, she claims to train 10 hours a day (it was said on the Russian TV), she shows a very good progress. Is Raf more Orser or Eteri type coach with her?

I would say that both Medvedeva and Tursynbaeva are very young, by human standards, despite being "veterans" in FS.
They are in the age when many young adults just move out from parents home, and yet need some time to practice the independance and maturity things. I wouldnt really trust most of the 18-20 years old i know to receive a plan for a week and then follow it strictly. Its not they are not responsible, they just dont have enough practice of it. They dont know everything. They sometimes feel insecure. Yes, some may handle it, but i wouldnt expect it to work or to be comfortable for everybody. Specially for skaters coming out of the russian system, which provides them with pretty much everything, from office training to choreo and dresses. Yes, less freedom, but then also less worries, with people who are far more experienced than you sorting everything out in the best way possible. Living with parents, with everything provided vs living entirely by yourself. You will handle it, but you will make mistakes on the way. Some people never really thrive while living entirely by themselves, and once away from parents will find a partner who will sort the stuff out for them. Its not bad, its just how stuff works for different people.

As for Raf, i kind of suspect that, since he is a russian school coach, he would coach in a more russian style too.

 

[neusw]

if you watched closely over this season alina has progressively gotten quite a bit thicker to point where it must be intentional. i think her days of trying to keep her jumps are close to over. her jumps have been bigger, with more pop, much better than when she was stick thin. it seems like they've figured out that alina doesn't actually need to starve herself to have beautiful jumps and are focusing on more muscle power. she is significantly bigger than at the olympics (and i mean this in the best way) and her jumps still got better. all she needs now is her consistency

and there has been major technique adjustment,she's using her legs more and her body less. do you really think she's just been starving herself and trying the same thing when it was obvious that it wasn't gonna work anymore lol? obviously there was major overhaul in her training.

They clearly did *something* different with her in the 2 months between Euros and Worlds. Her jumping and toe picking looked much more effortless here even when you eliminate factors like nerves. Even her salchow, which often barely gets off the ice and is eeked out by sheer will, actually looked like a proper jump here.

 

[andromache]

I assume that you are a figure skating coach and registered just some days ago to explain things. I believe that you can explain anything. But I read those things in hundreds or even thousands since 2014 including those from people who think a lot about their understanding of figure skating.

No matter what explanations one brings there are facts. And one of those facts is that Tursynbaeva could achieve nothing with Orser and in 1 year got the worlds silver with Eteri. One could see or just imagine improvements in Medvedeva's skating. The fact is that she lost 12 points to her OG results in her absolutely best skate of the season. And I attribute her getting the worlds podium to her unbelievable grit and will in addition to her strong basics (double WC) rather than to Orser's work.

Let's finish with this - we won't understand each other.

I’m not sure about that. Zhenya has stated that she used to be on a very strict diet and a certain weight, and that she said it probably caused her fracture last season. I’m not sure Zhenya could have maintained that diet and weight for another year, let alone the rest of her career, just to stay successful with Eteri.

Her grit is incredible. And everything she developed under Eteri is incredible too! But I think that if she stayed with Eteri this year, we would’ve seen a much, much worse Zhenya. I’m glad she did what she felt was right and to see her so happy and healthy.

Having a long career, especially while growing up, is going to have plenty of ups and downs. That’s okay, and it doesn’t mean that leaving her coach was a mistake. I’ll admit I have zero evidence that she would have gotten worse if she stayed with Eteri this year (other than the Yulia precedent) if you admit you have zero evidence she would have stayed at her previous level if she hadn’t left.

 

[silveruskate]

I assume that you are a figure skating coach and registered just some days ago to explain things. I believe that you can explain anything. But I read those things in hundreds or even thousands since 2014 including those from people who think a lot about their understanding of figure skating.

No matter what explanations one brings there are facts. And one of those facts is that Tursynbaeva could achieve nothing with Orser and in 1 year got the worlds silver with Eteri. One could see or just imagine improvements in Medvedeva's skating. The fact is that she lost 12 points to her OG results in her absolutely best skate of the season. And I attribute her getting the worlds podium to her unbelievable grit and will in addition to her strong basics (double WC) rather than to Orser's work.

Let's finish with this - we won't understand each other.

I don't need to be a figure skating coach to tell someone not to be disrespectful and saying "you can put on Kazakhstan pullover, you can bring expressive mom to K&C but it cannot cover the need to be there for your pupils every day like Eteri does" shows a lack of manners. I don't care about you being an Eteri uber-fan, but it doesn't give you the right to diss another coach like that. I'm happy Eteri's methods suit Tursynbaeva.

You're sounding more and more like you just want to berate Zhenya come what may, despite her just having a great Worlds with her best skates of the season. Zhenya's content limits her of course. Dissecting the Olympic Skate, no backloading anymore instantly takes off 2 points from her maximum content value on both SP and FS. If her 3T in the SP wasn't UR she would have been at 77/78 which is just short of 79.61, and the 2A in the FS would have brought her to 151/152 which isn't far off from 154.65. She only UR by less than 1/8th of a rotation on both of these jumps and some skaters weren't called for more, this is all despite the thigh pain. Alina is so impressive that despite the inability to backload she has come so close to her Olympic scores.

In the end for both Zhenya and Alina the next step given the challenges waiting for them from the juniors is to upgrade their technical content with difficult elements which they both are committed to do and that is a completely different ball game. I hope they both succeed.

And yes I joined this website recently, but why is it relevant?

 

[el henry]

I don’t follow him that closely, but I do know Raf has said he trains his skaters to be independent, and Exhibit A for that is Nathan Chen. You couldn’t get more independent, and it’s only been to his benefit. I don’t know what a “Russian” style is, but if it is hovering over your students each day, selecting their music, food and workouts, that’s not Raf.

Zhenya has thrived, as a person and as a skater, in her new environment. Both are equally important, and they appear to be equally important to her too. As Nathan Chen said in his most recent interview (paraphrasing) Gold medals are exciting for a few minutes. But they’re not life and there’s more to life.

I think Zhenya is coming to understand that too. The most important facts of all:yes:

Congratulations to the two Russian medalists!

 

[bubblecherry]

Just want to say, Alina right now is still younger than Evgenia was when she won her 2nd World Championship, 2 years ago. So comparisons about their bodies, growth, progression and/or regression in technique, careers in general at the moment, are not direct comparisons. They are in two completely different places

Anyway, congrats to both of them for proving many people wrong. Regardless of what you think about them personally, their skating, their coaches, etc- No one can take their passion for the sport and work ethic away from them.

 

[[email protected]]

I don’t follow him that closely, but I do know Raf has said he trains his skaters to be independent, and Exhibit A for that is Nathan Chen. You couldn’t get more independent, and it’s only been to his benefit. I don’t know what a “Russian” style is, but if it is hovering over your students each day, selecting their music, food and workouts, that’s not Raf.

I know about Nathan - my question was about Eusoon Lim.

 

[hippomoomin]

Evgenia looks much trimmer here than when she was at the Grand Prix events. I also looked at her Olympic performance again, and she was not as small as I thought. She gained more muscles on her legs but upper body not that much between now and the same time last year.

Evgenia and Alina are at very different points in their skating careers. Right now, Zhenya is adjusting to her mature body, weight/muscle gain, etc. Alina is in the middle of growing, trying to stay as slim as possible to hang on to her jumps - I would say Alina is now where Zhenya was during the Olympics. The jumps take more effort than they used to, there is a need to maintain a very strict diet and low weight in order to accomplish the jumps, but there is no major adjustment to technique yet. Zhenya is at the point where she cannot be healthy and maintain the low weight/strict diet forever (as it caused the fracture she had last season), so she has totally changed her approach. Of course it won't all come together perfectly right now.

We'll see where Zhenya and Alina are next season and compare again.

By the way - are you suggesting that male skaters do not need to have their coaches there every day but that ladies do? That seems unlikely - it probably just depends on each skater, and maybe the ages of the skaters as well. Older skaters can handle more independence in their training. But if an older skater prefers more coach involvement like Tursynbaeva does, that's okay too.

 

[[email protected]]

Just want to say, Alina right now is still younger than Evgenia was when she won her 2nd World Championship, 2 years ago. So comparisons about their bodies, growth, progression and/or regression in technique, careers in general at the moment, are not direct comparisons. They are in two completely different places

I assume that everyone has their own pace. And I don't remember Medvedeva's growth spurt between 15 and 16. Alina's keeping her cool after growing what? 8 - 10 cm is truly amazing. A good comparison could be Elena Radionova who grew 12 cm. She fought and fought but she could not collect herself when it mattered so that it was a downward spiral. We saw similar symptoms with Alina this season and many people already declared that "Alina was done". And some others added yet another time that Eteri "only can be successful with prepuberty girls". Hey, they were wrong.

Now I don't know what is going to be next. Alina has proved everything to everyone. Will she find motivation to go on after she won all possible titles? It is good if she is "addicted" to figure skating because, I believe, that she can be competitive with 3As even without quads. First of all, Kostornaya won't have the same pcs and she has no quads as well. Scherbakova's lutz is not consistent. Alina can learn a quad herself after all.

If Alina decides to go on with a view of Bejing then next year team looks like: Zagitova, Trusova and someone out of: Medvedeva, Kostornaya, Scherbakova, Tuktamysheva. Sorry, Samodurova, Konstantinova, Gubanova and many other talented girls. Only 3 spots and 2 are already taken with 4 powerful "heavyweighters" competing for the last one. If Alina retires then 2 spots will be "auctioned". In both cases "hunger games" next season are going to be amazing and, alas, no less dramatic than this year. Liza said that she plans to have 3 triple axels like Rika. She knows how to jump and she is pissed now. Kostornaya has been learning 3A, etc., etc.

 

[fabienne1996]

Somehow it seems my post isn't here anymore so once again can anyone tell me what eteri really said to lilbeth while waiting for her score. Wasitreally along the line of Medvedeva f*** up?
Or was it something else? I just want to have it clarified so I know to ignore those rumors

 

[Elucidus]

What were the Technical Judges thinking during Samodurova's skate? At first they thought her 3Lz was a 3F so when she did her third 3F they flagged it as a repeat jump. They corrected it later...

I strongly suspect tech panel members were just not competent enough for the task - probably they just can't analyze jumps as fast as needed - so they decided to play it safe and skip majority of checks. AFAIK tech panel members are determined by random draw from pool of judges who can be more used to GOE's judging and did tech calling like only many years ago. Hence lack of experience.
It also proved by the fact that many weak skaters from first flights were awarded by lv4 StpSqnc - which is bs. So one can consider it as streak of bad luck for japanese skaters since with another tech panel final results would be completely different.

 

[Scott512]

What were the Technical Judges thinking during Samodurova's skate? At first they thought her 3Lz was a 3F so when she did her third 3F they flagged it as a repeat jump. They corrected it later...

Disappointed for Sofia that she was scored lower-than-expected. If she finished eighth I would have expected for her to have bad programs at Worlds but that was not the case.

 

[Jontor]

I strongly suspect tech panel members were just not competent enough for the task - probably they just can't analyze jumps as fast as needed - so they decided to play it safe and skip majority of checks. AFAIK tech panel members are determined by random draw from pool of judges who can be more used to GOE's judging and did tech calling like only many years ago. Hence lack of experience.
It also proved by the fact that many weak skaters from first flights were awarded by lv4 StpSqnc - which is bs. So one can consider it as streak of bad luck for japanese skaters since with another tech panel final results would be completely different.

Interesting. I think you have a point. I was also confused by the high level of StSq by the early skaters...Where is Olga Markova when we need her!!??

 

[Scott512]

A fantastic and of the season for Alina. Zhenya too. Did Russia medal in any of the other three disciplines? I know the Russian Paris team was in first place after the short program. Russia has been weak in the other 3 disciplines the ;east couple years and they need to get better to win team gold in Bejiing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mathman]

I strongly suspect tech panel members were just not competent enough for the task - probably they just can't analyze jumps as fast as needed - so they decided to play it safe and skip majority of checks. AFAIK tech panel members are determined by random draw from pool of judges who can be more used to GOE's judging and did tech calling like only many years ago. Hence lack of experience. ...

Oh, I don't think that's correct at all. The tech panelist are chosen from a pool separate from the judges. For one thing, you have to have been an elite skater yourself, at least at the National level, to be a tech specialist, assistant tech specialist or tech controller (Vanessa Gusmeroli is a former world medalist). This is not required to be a judge. The tech people have their own training seminars, etc. conducted by the ISU to keep them current.

Plus, plum assignments like worlds are given to the A team. If you Google the three people on the tech panel for the ladies free skate, you will see that they all have extensive recent experience at many high-level events.

(I don't know why they miscalled that one jump, though. Stuff happens to the best of us, I guess.)

 

[DougDorsey]

If Alina decides to go on with a view of Bejing then next year team looks like: Zagitova, Trusova and someone out of: Medvedeva, Kostornaya, Scherbakova, Tuktamysheva. Sorry, Samodurova, Konstantinova, Gubanova and many other talented girls. Only 3 spots and 2 are already taken with 4 powerful "heavyweighters" competing for the last one. If Alina retires then 2 spots will be "auctioned". In both cases "hunger games" next season are going to be amazing and, alas, no less dramatic than this year. Liza said that she plans to have 3 triple axels like Rika. She knows how to jump and she is pissed now. Kostornaya has been learning 3A, etc., etc.

I posted this question earlier and it was deleted for some reason. I think it's a fair and sincere question, and I hope it's not interpreted as trolling.

In light of the "hunger games" situation you accurately describe above, why would Zhenya not switch her affiliation to Armenia in advance of next season? Such a move is not an option for the other girls, as far as I now, but it is for her, just like it is for Lilbet in the case of Kazakhstan.

Zhenya is already training outside of Russia anyway. Like Lilbet, Zhenya can basically guarantee herself spots at international competitions straight through the Olympics in 2022 without having to constantly stress about insane competition among Russian girls, where the slightest error can mean you're sidelined from events, like Worlds, that you deserve to be competing in.

I know Zhenya says she loves representing Russia, and I believe her when she says that, but I think she loves skating even more. If I were her, this would be a no-brainer. Unless there are other factors I'm overlooking?

(BTW, to the point of my earlier posts, I think it speaks to the flaws in the ISU selection system that she would even have to consider this option, but it's unfortunately the reality of things.)

 

[Fluture]

Even if Zhenya wanted to change country, which she absolutely does not: Russia would never let her go. Not after everything she‘s won. It worked for Elizabet because she wasn‘t a high ranked skater then. Zhenya‘s different.