- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
She probably knows that if she learns a lot of difficult jumps and lands them in competition, the judges will ignore her in-between skating and her PCS will rise drastically. That’s probably why she’s focused more on the jumps.
2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
You must be blind then. This was the worse judged World Championship by far.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I gotta agree with Casual, I wasn't happy with the judging either. Not it wasn't the worst judged competition ever but I definitely feel as though the GOE & PCS for the top 3 were overblown and in a competition where things were so close, those points made a big difference. I mean come on...Alina clearing 37+ in TES with that program? Lil Bet's PCS suddenly skyrocketing by 2-3 points in the SP and 3-4 points in the FS? Satoko consistently being under marked despite the overall strength of her program...
Also the tech caller must have been high. No edge calls. The only thing I can say about that is at least it was consistent--no one got called. Still, PCS & GOE are deciding factors when everyone skates well and the judges pick and choose who gets awarded those scores which greatly impacts the overall scores. Forget the GOE--had the PCS been awarded fairly and without bias, the podium would look different.
I've always thought Elizabet was underrated on PCS. Her programs this season are very Daniil/Eteri; but she is a very musical skater. (Always has been, ever since she was a junior). I think her second mark has stayed down because she has struggled to get her TES scores up (mostly due to struggles with the lutz); but when you have good presentation and you finally start to bring in the technical marks, then your PCS can go up & deserve to go up quickly. Better late than never, IMO. Denis's & Karen's did the same.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
Something is telling me that Karen Chen won’t be back, ever. 
She’ll retire like I think Ashley and mirai will.
She’ll retire like I think Ashley and mirai will.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
^ Gotta completely disagree about her PCS, "musicality", and programs. Anyway, not the appropriate thread for that.
Anyway, I never really noticed it, but Mariah has some really difficult (and well done!) transitions in her free skate. I don't know why I never noticed, maybe because typically when ladies do a lot of transitions, the performance is lost and everything begins to look labored, but not Mariah! I was really surprised, and then at the end the British Eurosport commentator made similar comments too. I thought she was underscored and should've been ahead of Bradie-- not a dig at Bradie, she did a fine job too
Anyway, I never really noticed it, but Mariah has some really difficult (and well done!) transitions in her free skate. I don't know why I never noticed, maybe because typically when ladies do a lot of transitions, the performance is lost and everything begins to look labored, but not Mariah! I was really surprised, and then at the end the British Eurosport commentator made similar comments too. I thought she was underscored and should've been ahead of Bradie-- not a dig at Bradie, she did a fine job too
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2018
How I see the ladies returning (of course not intending to discount any of them):
Wagner: Retired
Nagasu: Maybe. Says she might come back but doesn't seem to be training competitively; also seems to have a lot of media stuff on her plate. If she is skating for SOI this summer it will be interesting to see her form.
Chen: Likely. She'll move past her injury and come back swinging; until proven otherwise I'm assuming she still has her technical content. She has had some good performances (Top 10) internationally, so it's very possible she can continue that upward trend.
Gold: Likely. Working hard; love her Insta updates. She has three years until Olympics and I don't see why she can't build artistry and move the Carolina route, especially with decent TES. I will start getting excited once I see a clean 3Lz-3T.
Edmunds: Unlikely. She doesn't seem to be training competitively, and nor has she been competing consistently since 2016.
As for the juniors:
Cui: I don't think Tom Z. and Tammy are doing her any good. While the group is good they just don't seem to producing skaters winning senior international medals. She does have the artistry though.
Harrell: I absolutely love her. I think her jump technique is stellar. She also needs to move coaches to get that prestige PCS and GOE boost.
Liu: I think she's done tremendously but I am skeptical whether her 3A will hold. She's also too young for me to predict how she will do when she gets to seniors.
Wagner: Retired
Nagasu: Maybe. Says she might come back but doesn't seem to be training competitively; also seems to have a lot of media stuff on her plate. If she is skating for SOI this summer it will be interesting to see her form.
Chen: Likely. She'll move past her injury and come back swinging; until proven otherwise I'm assuming she still has her technical content. She has had some good performances (Top 10) internationally, so it's very possible she can continue that upward trend.
Gold: Likely. Working hard; love her Insta updates. She has three years until Olympics and I don't see why she can't build artistry and move the Carolina route, especially with decent TES. I will start getting excited once I see a clean 3Lz-3T.
Edmunds: Unlikely. She doesn't seem to be training competitively, and nor has she been competing consistently since 2016.
As for the juniors:
Cui: I don't think Tom Z. and Tammy are doing her any good. While the group is good they just don't seem to producing skaters winning senior international medals. She does have the artistry though.
Harrell: I absolutely love her. I think her jump technique is stellar. She also needs to move coaches to get that prestige PCS and GOE boost.
Liu: I think she's done tremendously but I am skeptical whether her 3A will hold. She's also too young for me to predict how she will do when she gets to seniors.
Wow...that’s a nice thing to say! Well I personally wouldn’t change who got on the podium. I think points wise Zagitova was massively over scored but Zagitova was super clean, Tursybaeva landed a quad, and Evgenia was also clean. Rika has highest BV but she had a few mistakes...Kaori was almost flawless with a lesser BV but had a tiny mistake...and Satoko had a very minor mistake. The only one who I think may have gotten a little screwed by the judging is Miyahara, but I still think the top 3 were the rightful top 3 (again EXCLUDING the TP because that isn’t the same thing as judging!)
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Just looking at all of the comeback US women...
Wagner: Done. I don't see her coming back. She made her mark as the most successful US woman of this past era and has nothing left to prove. Were she to come back it's highly unlikely she'd be any kind of factor.
Nagasu: Doubtful. She got redemption in Pyeongchang with her performances, earned an Olympic medal and made history. Were she to come back I think she could possibly place top 5 or 6 at nationals but internationally I don't think she'd be a factor.
Chen: Likely. Truth is we've hardly ever seen Karen at her best. She was always injured or battling her boots. It'd be interesting to see what a healthy Karen unhampered by boot woes could do. Would the URs go away? Would the confidence/consistency go up? I'm not holding my breath for a miracle but I do think out of all of the potential comeback skaters she's the one who hasn't reached her peak yet.
Edmunds: Doubtful. She has been a way for a long time and has nagging injuries. Were she to come back she'd be a non-factor internationally and would have a hard time cracking top 5 at nationals. I feel like she reached her peak back in 2014/2015.
Gold: Yes I do believe Gracie is planning to comeback and will. Do I think she'll be competitive? If I'm being honest, no I don't. She's always struggled with nerves, consistency and putting it together and the field will be 3 time tougher than it was when she left. She's stated her goal is the 2022 Olympics and/or a world medal. With the US down to only two spots for the foreseeable future that's going to be a very tall order to fill. I wish her the best but I'm skeptical of her ability to not only to get back to where she was at her peak, but to find a way to elevate herself beyond that. Peak Gracie could make another world or Olympic team; well beyond peak Gracie would be needed for any kind of podium finish. It's only getting harder and harder...
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Huh? Someone named Vincent just won World bronze and Four Continents bronze.
And with Tom Z, someone named Mirai won Four Continents silver and bronze.
Good luck to the ladies at Egna Spring Trophy this week.
Gabbie Izzo and Starr Andrews; Audrey Shin and Calista Choi; Isabelle Inthisone.
While i'm not crazy about Tom Z and Tammy as coaches the fact is Ting won two international medals this season. Not just a Junior Worlds bronze but a silver at a Challenger series Senior B at Tallinn Trophy against senior skaters. Ting is a nervous skater regardless of whoever is her coach and it's something she needs to overcome if she's going to challenge at Nationals next season.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Mirai also had her hip surgery in the Fall (re: training competitively) and is just getting some of her jumps back, I'm guessing she'll be doing some jumps but maybe not in the same shape that she has been on SOI in the past. Honestly, she's lucky that she was able to hang on for the Olympic year with a hip injury. Guessing her and Ashley are done. I'm not sure about Polina and Gracie-if Polina never competes again, I think she'll have a nice memory of her clean short with a hometown crowd at 2018 nationals. Gracie is tougher because I don't think that she feels like she got any closure, which is part of the problem-I think making nationals is a realistic goal for now and everything after that will be icing on the cake. I hope she does not feel like she needs to get a world medal in order to be considered successful in both her overall career and her comeback, she's gone through so much. I have no idea about Karen.
Per TSL, rumor is that Ting will be moving to Raf. But they also said that last season - so who knows.
If she is a nervous skater, I’m not sure Raf would be the best coach for her. She seems like a gentle soul - the interview with her local news after Junior Worlds was so adorable.
If she is a nervous skater, I’m not sure Raf would be the best coach for her. She seems like a gentle soul - the interview with her local news after Junior Worlds was so adorable.
I would be all good with her staying where she is. It took her all season to settle down, and Tom really looked to have figured her out & be pumping her up to fight at Junior Worlds. I agree about the gentle soul bit. Raf is a great coach, but personality and performance-wise, Ting seems like a much better fit for the rink where you get a hug after every competition.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
She said in an interview that her goal is to make it to Beijing and that ultimately she wants a world medal. That's what worries me. She's coming back with the intention of being a factor competitively. The landscape has changed A LOT in the last two years since she's been out and will change drastically again next year with more women attempting quads and 3As. The level is extremely high and I just don't know if Gracie can reach that level. I don't see her adding 3As or quads...
I think it would be different if her goal were to make top 5 or even top 3 at nationals or just to come back and be happy with competing...but she has goals and they are lofty considering what she'll need to do to attain them.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
This is exactly why I think Gracie will have an hard time with her comeback, and makes me question if it even can be “successful” in her and her teams eyes. Through all the new interviews she’s given the past couple of months, I haven’t gotten any sense from them that pure love of skating is the number one force bringing her back. It seems like it’s a combination of feeling like she didn’t accomplish all that she wanted to and having skating as a full time job be all she knows how to do. It’s fine to have goals but I don’t think hers are based on the reality of women’s skating right now. Well, maybe now that she can’t just jump right in to high level events it will open her eyes a bit more to what a successful comeback could be.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Women have been landing 3A's internationally since 1989, and the only major event that I can think of where a skater would have needed it to win was 1989 Worlds. It's hard to speculate what the standard will be next year, but I would guess 2016 Gracie would have been competitive at the most recent Worlds. For me, the question is whether she can return to her peak form, not whether her previous best would be good enough to compete today.
There are still very few ladies who can land quads or 3As consistently so invariably there will be opportunities for others to medal at the big events. For them it will depend on who can step up to the challenge and seize the opportunities when they arise. Unfortunately for Gracie she doesn't a great track record in those types of situations.
I agree with this regarding Gracie.
They would have needed more at the 2018 and 2019 Junior Worlds. I know you meant major senior internationals, but I think it's worth acknowledging. Especially considering how competitive Kihira was all season. She controlled her own destiny. She didn't get it done at Worlds, but she controlled it. Trusova & Scherbakova move up next year. Will they still have those jumps in a couple years? I have my doubts. But I suppose their odds are better than someone who doesn't have them. And they could certainly have them next season.
I do think it is worth acknowledging that the ceiling has been blown off. The possibility is a reality now. Kihira's triple axel triple combo, Trusova's multiple quads, Scherbakova's lutz. This isn't "a" triple axel. Or even "a" quad salchow. These are big point elements. Three girls (Kihira, Trusova, Liu) with multiple ones. For the next generation, this is the picture.
Aspirations do not a quadruple jump or triple axel make. They certainly don't get it done under the pressure of competition, don't guarantee you will get the clean calls from the judges that are needed to maximize scores, and don't guarantee that those jumps will last.
But needing a triple axel or a quad to win a major international? This is the reality those girls have been living in for two years.
