Ladies - Short Program

[iloveaxel]

Honestly, I think both girls need to re-evaluate where they want to go in the sport. Rochette may need someone who can help her steel herself (although lately, it seems that skaters have a harder time learning competitive toughness--maybe this is something one is born with, and not something one can acquire)--like Robyn Wagner, who might seem crazy, but it may be to her benefit.

As to Mira, she needs to learn that she won't improve with the attitude she has.

I agree. I'm afraid to say neither girl can go much further in such a deep field.

 

[bekalc]

I think saratore does have a legimitate point. There are probably a couple of times that Kwan, Cohen, Buttle, and Kim beat their opponents in virtue of their choreography, presentation, style, etc.. etc.. and would have lost had only the jumps counted.

I think for people who value only athleticism in figure skating, I could understand why they would not respect Cohen, Kwan, and Buttle. These were not just athletes. They were also performers whose talent in being that helped them win their medals as much as their technical components.

Yes, but I'm not quite sure when with Kim... I mean in her two wins in the Grand Prix, Yu-na's opponents were hardly masterful in their jumping. They made quite a few mistakes far more than Yu-na's. jumping mistakes.
And at Junior worlds last year, Mao made quite a lot of mistakes, whereas Yu-na hit six triples...Besides its not just jumps its footwork, spins etc...

 

[blue dog]

Yu-na's landed the salchow on many occassions in her programs. In france, she fell on the double axel, and in GPF she made a mistake on the double axe/triple toe combo. But as for her salchow she landed it on both occassions, so I'm not sure what your getting at.

Seeing as Mao's had issues with the triple toe, a true triple lutz, and the salchow, you really have no reason to talk about Yu-na.

As for Yu-na and the triple axel. I read an interview where Orser stated that Yu na was working on the triple axel and got to the point where she was fully rotating it, but then started having injuries so they decided to hold off on it for right now. So, clearly if she's already rotating it "its not impossible for her."

I'm not talking about Kim not being able to land salchow and loop. That's another poster =P I was just stating each skater definitely has a good jump, and a nemesis jump.

 

[R.D.]

seems like I'll wake up tomorrow to the freeskate results. Well, before I doze off and call it a night, just want to say good luck to the Americans...and that I think I'll see either Mao or YuNa as the winner Hopefully Rochette and Czisny can pull up some spots, I know they can do much better than what they did tonight.

 

[bekalc]

I'm not talking about Kim not being able to land salchow and loop. That's another poster =P I was just stating each skater definitely has a good jump, and a nemesis jump.

I know I was just commenting on your point about Yu-na winning and not because of Jumps. I was saying that on the Grand Prix this series, I think one could argue that Yu-na outjumped her opponents. Because Miki,Kimmie, and Mao all made huge jumping mistakes, more so than Yu-na.

The thing is that if you look at Yu-na's scores here, Yu-na only got a point higher in PCS than Miki in the short program. What apparently really put Yu-na over the top, was plus GOE's on all of her elements.

The same thing happened at Bombard, in the short program, Miki had a higher technical base score, and received higher PCS. But Yu-na came out in top based on GOE's.

That's why the idea that Yu-na is such a weak jumper is laughable. Normally, when Yu-na's on she's capable of getting huge scores for the purity of her jumps. What put Yu-na so high over the edge was not choregraphy, what put her over the edge was how well she did her elements. She was the only skater in the event not to receive a minus GOE for any element, from any of the 12 judges.

Those extra points add up..

 

[rain]

Honestly, I think both girls need to re-evaluate where they want to go in the sport. Rochette may need someone who can help her steel herself (although lately, it seems that skaters have a harder time learning competitive toughness--maybe this is something one is born with, and not something one can acquire)--like Robyn Wagner, who might seem crazy, but it may be to her benefit.

As to Mira, she needs to learn that she won't improve with the attitude she has.

I agree with you. Rochette has gone backwards this year in terms of consistency, and a couple of years ago was regularly doing triple/triple combinations. I'm not sure why she seems so unsure out there now. It seems to mostly be a mental issue, not a training or ability issue.

Leung definitely needs a reality check. She is no longer the 15 year old with lots of promise. It's time to start fulfilling some of it, and she's just not in the same league as the top skaters, many of whom are now younger than she is. She has some fundamental technique issues that she has to address if she wants to reach her goals.

 

[SeaniBu]

Oh the Rochette and Czisny programmes were hard to swallow for me. Mao too, but I can reserve my mind to "she has time, just an off night or even WOW USA has a chance!"

Happy for Kimmie and Miki though.

Did anyone notice the 3x3 that Mao did in warm up right in front of Miki? It was likely a coincidence but it came off as a "mind game." I wonder????

___________
Just had to separate this comment a little from the others.
WOW CAROLINA, she jumped up a few spots in my faves for sure with that tonight. I LOVED her performance.
___________

Oh and the "airplane arms" comments I was hearing - "bird wings" or "Swan dive"... something more along those lines would make that comment make sense. Airplanes don't normally (or even more then two models maybe) have wings that invert, so the visual image connected with the action does not convey or make a clear understanding of the arm position.

 

[R.D.]

Did anyone notice the 3x3 that Mao did in warm up right in front of Miki? It was likely a coincidence but it came off as a "mind game." I wonder????

well, even if it was, it backfired, right?

 

[jsteam4501s]

Hey, maybe the skater that was being called "Granny" has a chance also. Now - who IS the skater that was being called Granny?

 

[dlfan]

Leung definitely needs a reality check. She is no longer the 15 year old with lots of promise. It's time to start fulfilling some of it, and she's just not in the same league as the top skaters, many of whom are now younger than she is. She has some fundamental technique issues that she has to address if she wants to reach her goals.

And, at the risk of sounding petty, she has to change her look. If she wants to be taken seriously as a senior skater she's got to start looking like one because she still looks like a gawky little girl out there. Enough with that hair and those costumes Mom makes for her--this young lady needs a makeover.

 

[krenseby]

Hey, maybe the skater that was being called "Granny" has a chance also. Now - who IS the skater that was being called Granny?

I am so proud of her making it to 8th... The field at Worlds is full of talented young ladies and the fact that Julia managed to crack the top 10 is unbelievable. I was sure she'd end up number 17 or something. I think people were really mean to her earlier this season, when she did well at some GP events. Of course, she is far from being a skater worthy of the GP final and she did get there by luck. But, despite all that, she's not a terrible skater all things considered. She has had her time a couple of years ago when she won some medals at a couple of GP events and also won the Euros. When she's on she can be a pleasure to watch because she can be both a very musical skater and a very technically proficient one. The height on her jumps is stunning!

 

[chuckm]

I've always liked Julia Sebestyen, but in the last two years her skating has made me cringe. Even this year, she won two medals in the GP and then bombed in the GPF. At Euros, she was 4th in the SP, then placed 10th in the FS and 9th overall.

I hope she skates well enough in the FS to remain in the top 10, but I always hold my breath when it's her turn to skate.

 

[bubbleyum]

Yes, but I'm not quite sure when with Kim... I mean in her two wins in the Grand Prix, Yu-na's opponents were hardly masterful in their jumping. They made quite a few mistakes far more than Yu-na's. jumping mistakes.
And at Junior worlds last year, Mao made quite a lot of mistakes, whereas Yu-na hit six triples...Besides its not just jumps its footwork, spins etc...

EXACTLY!! even with all the hype mao has gotten for being the more talented skater, especially in her jumps, ironically, the times that she's been beaten by yuna was BECAUSE of the jumps. because either she fell or botched them otherwise. if mao is clean, then everybody thinks she would win over yuna, even if yuna skated a clean program too. now granted, it's really hard to say exactly who is being held up by their artistry unless they equally skated clean with the exact same amount of technical difficulty in their programs.

it all just comes down to who skated the best program OVERALL that day. so sartore's "hate"-filled criticisms are just troll-speak that we should not even encourage. there are commentators and technical experts judging the competition that would NOT say that yuna's jumps are weak at all!

 

[SeaniBu]

well, even if it was, it backfired, right?

:yes: Precisely, maybe still a little young to be pushing something like that. I don't really think she was, it was just the opening I would think. But is the network looking for something like that? I expected to hear a comment of " Moa practicing her 3x3 right in front of her older teammate Miki.... blaa blaa. Something along those lines because it seems they like to hype the Johnny / Evan thing. Thought they might take a shot at that one too.

Maybe with some of this new news about contract, I wonder if they just don't care.

One thing comes to mind about Dick, I think he is to critical of the leg wrap and some positions. I also hear "truth" but a number of negative comments during the programmes. That is Ugly" or "that is not good" could be replaced with "not her best" or "not one of the top... I have seen." It sounds petty, but ... I think I am making my point. They do say the more "gentle comments" but I believe it would be nicer to listen to if it was less negative and JUST critical....make sense???

 

[bubbleyum]

One thing comes to mind about Dick, I think he is to critical of the leg wrap and some positions. I also hear "truth" but a number of negative comments during the programmes. That is Ugly" or "that is not good" could be replaced with "not her best" or "not one of the top... I have seen." It sounds petty, but ... I think I am making my point. They do say the more "gentle comments" but I believe it would be nicer to listen to if it was less negative and JUST critical....make sense???

well, i guess the commentators can seem a bit "honest" in their criticisms, but i may be one of the minority that actually enjoy dick button's commentary. i prefer him to paul wylie, nancy kerrigan, peggy etc or any of the other non-us commentators i've seen. because i'm not a skater myself, listening to these type of honest objective (well, some may argue about this, lol) critiques helped me learn what is important in a good program over the past 15 years. if not for dick, i wouldn't know that a bent leg with the heel sticking up during a layback is a bad bad thing!

and i dunno. dick just looks and sounds like such a nice ol grandpa type, somehow i'm not offended. and i appreciate the enthusiasm when a skater does something well that he likes, it's so much more appreciated because i know he is a tough critic i'm always interested in what dick thinks about a skater overall.

although i do wish all the commentators would talk just a little less so we can appreciate the skating. maybe if they had a "commentary off" button on our tv remotes so we can turn it on/off at will, that would be ideal...

 

[SeaniBu]

Forgot to say how much I loved the anime intros.
Frick'n class A stuff there.

David Carradine's voice over not the best, it acutely sounded a little "unenthused" as he said "...figure skating..." but I bet he was even more surprised at this voice over than the Yellow book commercial he just did. That and it is Japanese and not Chinese that he was doing a voice over for.

That Japanese / Korean thing seems to be rearing it's ugly head yet again in history, Most have seemed to let it go, I wish everyone would.

well, i guess t.......t would be ideal...

I don't mean to sound like I don't like Dick, I do like him. And find I agree with him a lot and feel he does educate me quite a bit. I was happy to hear him make some differentiation in the slight differences of positioning in say the candlestick, but how harsh he was on the others saying "ugly" is just so "icky / negative" I just don't see it as necessary to go so far as to say one of the most beautiful ladies in sports has anything close to an ugly appearance. My friends disagreed with "ugly comments" and wondered why he would say something like "ugly" rather than not the optimal positioning."

But like his Beach ball comments. I think when reviewing his routines from the past he is TOO MUCH appearing like he is holding on to a beach ball. I personally feel it is and emotionless and over used position when looking back at his skating.

But I would love to sit around with him for hours.

I think it might have SOME to do with guys not liking the comments of ugly associated with a ladies they find absolutely gorgeous. Just a tad harsh. I understand - I think - but an average viewer might find that a little offensive of a "judgment." JAT *shrugs*

maybe if they had a "commentary off" button on our tv remotes so we can turn it on/off at will, that would be ideal...

I love you!

 

[*Sniper*]

As far as Mr. Dick Button goes, I wouldn't mind it a bit if someone pushed his button and shut him off!!!

I, too, find him informative at times, but he is just too biased, and once he finds something negative about a certain skater (NEVER an American though), he will talk about it through the entire program and pick up more things that are not in his taste along the way.

I doubt the network will fire him unless he wants to quit, but I just don't want to be yelling "SHUT UP!!" at the tv screen every five seconds in order to enjoy great skating over his nonstop "commentating."

 

[darknessteve]

Yeah, Dick Button was quite irritating. Maybe its just the fact that I don't like him very much. I could clearly tell which skaters he likes and which he doesn't.

 

[darknessteve]

By the way, am I the only one who thinks Yu-na is a better jumper than Mao? I'm sure I'm in the minority here, because many people seems to rave about Yu-na's lyrical style while Mao is being talked about somewhat of a jumping bean with all kinds of difficult moves. However I really think Mao has the upperhand when it comes to overall presentation and style. Whereas Yuna is more fundamentally sound with consistent jumping techniques as well as the best 3-3 in the business. I love them both and hope this great rivalry continues

 

[jsteam4501s]

Hey, I just watched Carolina on the ESPN 3AM-5AM rerun, and she was AWESOME! (I am night auditor at a Quality Inn).

Totally different girl from Turino.