Ladies - Free Program

[PolymerBob]

M.O.P. ALERT !!!! (minority opinion post)

First of all, I am a loyal, patriotic American. Baseball, motherhood, apple pie, ugly guerilla wars and what-not. But really, how boring would it be if Americans won all the time? We would come to expect it. We would somehow feel cheated if the universe did not cough up the correct result every time. I actually prefer to our see skaters struggle a little, because that makes their eventual success that much sweeter.

Miki's victory is so sweet to the Japanese because she struggled. She got her face ground into the dirt and she bounced back. That's what we love so much; those athletes who bounce back strong from crushing defeat. So have faith. Miki rose from the ashes, and our girls will as well. And how wonderful will it be when they do?

 

[Zuranthium]

If that were true why woud there be GOE's in the system or how did Mao and Yu Na beat Miki in the program components in the short and long. Miki barely beat Mao; it could have gone either way. It was practically a tie.

I'd also like to point out that the result would have been exactly the same under 6.0 :

Miki was 2nd place in the short, 2nd place in the long - 3 points.
Mao was 5th place in short, 1st place in long - 3.5 points.
Yu-Na was 1st in the short, 4th in the long - 4.5 points.
Kimmie was 4th in short, 3rd in the long - 5 points.

Nothing would have changed. Additionally, in the old system it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Mao to win even if she had the absolute best skate Free Skate of her life. Because in the old system ranking was what mattered, not overall quality. These days it's possible for people to move up MUCH further after mistakes in the Short Program. I personally would have given Mao the Gold at these Championships. It certainly deserved to be close, though.

~Z

 

[flying camel]

M.O.P. ALERT !!!! (minority opinion post)

First of all, I am a loyal, patriotic American. Baseball, motherhood, apple pie, ugly guerilla wars and what-not. But really, how boring would it be if Americans won all the time? We would come to expect it. We would somehow feel cheated if the universe did not cough up the correct result every time. I actually prefer to our see skaters struggle a little, because that makes their eventual success that much sweeter.

Miki's victory is so sweet to the Japanese because she struggled. She got her face ground into the dirt and she bounced back. That's what we love so much; those athletes who bounce back strong from crushing defeat. So have faith. Miki rose from the ashes, and our girls will as well. And how wonderful will it be when they do?

Well I have to totaly agree with you. I feel like I was more upset about Kimmie's 4th place then she seemed to be. I am just use to the American girls winning the titles or at least being on the podium. I am not use to all these falls and finishing out of the top 10. I am sure Kimmie will be stronger then ever next year. I like how she said "I'll be back".

For Ando, I have never been her fan. In fact, I have been one of her critics. I feel like she could have one these titles years ago, but she if often too ambitious. I was so happy for her. I got a little choked up after she skated. I felt the best lady won. When you think how hard it must have been to continue after her horrible performances last year. I was happy she beat Mao. I am sure that is who everyone was expecting to win in Japan.

 

[DaveT]

If that were true why woud there be GOE's in the system or how did Mao and Yu Na beat Miki in the program components in the short and long. Miki barely beat Mao; it could have gone either way. It was practically a tie.

Perhaps I should say as executed, not as designed.

 

[clairecloutier]

Dave, I think you are right, I am upset about the judging system that allowed Miki to win. I don't understand why her PCS scores are as high they are. To me, in any given competition, Miki's PCS scores should be 5 to 15 points below skaters such as Mao, Yu-Na, Kimmie, Carolina, and even Yukari. However, this is not the case. For example, in the long program, Miki had the fourth-lowest PCS. However, she was still just a couple points off Mao's PCS, which is ridiculous. Even worse, Miki's PCS was just a half-point lower than Kimmie's. Now, I agree that Kimmie's not as good as Mao or Yu-Na artistically. However, she is vastly superior to Miki. Kimmie has much better posture, good speed, nice crisp positions in her spins and footwork, and far better spirals than Miki. How is it possible, then, that Kimmie's PCS score was only a half-point higher?!

I do realize that the other skaters made mistakes on their jumps and that Miki didn't. I guess in that sense, consistency won the day. However, the bottom line for me is I don't feel Miki is at a world champion level in her basic skating and presentation skills. And I think the judges should be brave enough to score her correspondingly.

Unfortunately I can't agree with the other posters who enjoy Miki's style on the ice. What they see as wild abandon, I see as a bunch of arm-waving and leg-waving to try to disguise her lack of basic good skating technique.

I'm sorry this viewpoint is unpopular but I have to say what I feel.

 

[Mafke]

Just quick thoughts about the LP's.

Kim - My favorite in terms of basic presentation. I don't use the word 'lovely' very easily or often, but I couldn't get it out of my mind during her program, falls and all. Light, understated and graceful. Still not at top senior form IMO but so wonderful to watch.

Asada - I still don't get the Asada hype. IINM there were no toeloops or salchows and her triple axel looks like a double. And I don't like her landings and her score seemed more like the conscious result of a point-hunting rather than real skating excellence. She also still has that hard-to-articulate problem of skating like a junior. Maybe I'll warm to her in the future but as of yet I just don't get the hype.

Ando - One might hope that after this (and Arakawa's world and olympic titles) that fans who don't want to seem like ridiculous nitwits would stop writing skaters off after one bad season or performance (I'm so optimistic). Skating now is just a much more up and down sport and that's not going to change. Yes, there were some bobbles and I don't like her landings any better than Asada's but she laid down back to back solid performances and skates like a senior. I'm glad that she won and I think under 6.0 she would have won the lp (though even if she were second she'd still win the competition under 6.0).

 

[SeaniBu]

I am understanding the Asada hype, but don't think she is doing all that well with it. Just a hunch / impression. It is definitely going to change someone in some way to get that "kind of attention," I question what it is doing to Mao. And I don't think it is positive.


Miki's said "sayonara yoma." Hope she keeps it off and this adds some confidence to her over all "posture / presentation" during her programmes. It was really nice to see that look on her face.

 

[Tinymavy15]

First of all, so glad that Ando got what she deseved. Two great programs, and did i predict this or what? lol!! I was so happy for her. Mao was great. I though that the changes hs emade to the program were great and that triple axel looked so EASY! By the way, iwould not call it a double foot. she did the same thing on t he tripel toe after the double axel. Her tequince is so that her feet are still very crossed when she lands. She does not doubel foot the landing, but the free fott comes around and hits the ice after she lands on one foot. I loved that expression after the 3 lutz 2 loop, 2 loop. I really thought hse as going to win. So did she. that expression when she realized that miki had won was priceless. She must have been thinging "that darn triple loop in the short!!"
Kimmie looked nervous, but did pretty well. she has proven that she can come back from early program mistkes over and over. I wished that she owuld have worn the red dress that she wore at nationals, but i guess she though that it looked too much like mao's. It must hae been tough following up mao's perfomance, she must have known her chances of winning were gone. I was surprised that nobody said anything about kimmie's triple axel... i guess it was a given that she would not try it. I would have if i were her. She really hadn othing to lose. Her triple triple looked cheated and the 2 axel 2 loop, 2 toe at the very end.. she cheated tha last two jumps. MOre later...

 

[SeaniBu]

I really liked Kimmie's Black n white dress. Did like the red too, but this was a nice one and seeing her in a new one made up for missing the red one this time. I liked the blue LP more than the red sp any way, and like the black better than the red.

Any comments about Kimmie's arms I missed in the thread. Did anyone see improvement on her position of arms?

Dick was better with comments too, I think it is just that "Ugly" comment I find so "ugly" in itself.

 

[skateone]

Just quick thoughts about the LP's.

Kim - My favorite in terms of basic presentation. I don't use the word 'lovely' very easily or often, but I couldn't get it out of my mind during her program, falls and all. Light, understated and graceful. Still not at top senior form IMO but so wonderful to watch.

Asada - I still don't get the Asada hype. IINM there were no toeloops or salchows and her triple axel looks like a double. And I don't like her landings and her score seemed more like the conscious result of a point-hunting rather than real skating excellence. She also still has that hard-to-articulate problem of skating like a junior. Maybe I'll warm to her in the future but as of yet I just don't get the hype.

Ando - One might hope that after this (and Arakawa's world and olympic titles) that fans who don't want to seem like ridiculous nitwits would stop writing skaters off after one bad season or performance (I'm so optimistic). Skating now is just a much more up and down sport and that's not going to change. Yes, there were some bobbles and I don't like her landings any better than Asada's but she laid down back to back solid performances and skates like a senior. I'm glad that she won and I think under 6.0 she would have won the lp (though even if she were second she'd still win the competition under 6.0).

Mao and Kim got the best landing in the whole group, more secure and less effort than Ando. Depends what kind of jump attempted, the landing might require more technical skill. As the 2nd jump of the combo, Loop is harder to land than Toe. Arikawa was the best demo of mastering the combo in the year
she won the world. If Mao 's SP was just a bit better, she is the champ hand down.

 

[iloveaxel]

I'm no huge fan of Kimmie's skating, but don't you guys think Kim got overscored in free skate with two falls?

In my opinion, Kimmie should have won over Kim by a larger margin in free skate.

Glad Kimmie Meisner's 3+3 got downgraded. She does not have a true 3+3 compared with Mao, Kim and Miki, let alone 3A.

 

[Mafke]

Mao and Kim got the best landing in the whole group, more secure and less effort than Ando. Depends what kind of jump attempted, the landing might require more technical skill. As the 2nd jump of the combo, Loop is harder to land than Toe. If Mao 's SP was just a bit better, she is the champ hand down.

But Asada's landings (to me) don't flow, but have this jerky quality, like they come to a complete stop for a split second before skidding back. Ando has this too (and a kind of lean out in some of her landings that I find distracting).

 

[kyla2]

My Thoughts

The results were right but I have to say that this was a "flat" worlds. Except for Yu na Kim, who is a truly beautiful skater, and Shen and Zhao, I was underwhelmed. I miss the head to head competition of Michelle and Irina and the choreography that went into making their programs special. There is something missing under this new system. There is no connection to the music. That isn't to say I don't respect what Miki Ando has accomplished over the past few years, I do. She has really turned it around.

 

[flying camel]

I'm no huge fan of Kimmie's skating, but don't you guys think Kim got overscored in free skate with two falls?

In my opinion, Kimmie should have won over Kim by a larger margin in free skate.



I did not understand the scoring of Yu - Na. I don't understand how she stayed on the podium. I don't feel she is that superior to Kimmie. She has a lot of areas that need improvement also.
But that's the way it goes.

 

[fml99]

Well, it's still a matter of opinion...

...despite the new scoring system.

That said, I think the results were fair. Miki Ando was by far the most deserving winner. While I agree that the performance quality that Mao brings is superior, her SP killed the overall result.

I don't believe that Yu-Na's performance ability is as good as Mao's. She's lovely, neat, and balletic, but particularly in the LP, she does not have Mao's musicality and charm. I think she has it in her, but I haven't seen it yet. Perhaps more dynamic music would be to her advantage.

Speaking of music, I liked Kimmie Meissner's comment at the end that she was probably going to go back to music that was more in her comfort zone next year. I think her LP is a great program, but didn't really work for her because she appeared to be thinking about every move too much that it took away from the flow. I applaud her attempts, but again, it's to her benefit to return to something that suits her.

 

[Zuranthium]

I'm no huge fan of Kimmie's skating, but don't you guys think Kim got overscored in free skate with two falls?

In my opinion, Kimmie should have won over Kim by a larger margin in free skate.

Glad Kimmie Meisner's 3+3 got downgraded. She does not have a true 3+3 compared with Mao, Kim and Miki, let alone 3A.

No, I don't think Yu-Na Kim got overscored. She was underscored, in fact, because they gave her 0 points for her Salchow (since she did it in combination and had already used up all her combination slots....another poor rule which needs to be fixed). I would have had her in 3rd place for the Long Program.

Even with Yu-Na falling twice, Kimmie really didn't do that much better than her in terms of jumps. She had a poor landing on her first Lutz, left out an entire Triple Toeloop, underrotated the 3Toe she did attempt, and none of her clean jumps were good enough to deserve bonus GOE points (whereas Yu-Na deserved, and received, 4 extra points for the amazing quality of her first 3 jumping passes).

~Z

 

[clairecloutier]

Does anyone know where you can find a detailed breakdown of each competitor's scores, showing elements that were completed, elements that were downgraded, and GOE? Thanks.

 

[Zuranthium]

At the top of the forum...click on the "Starting Orders/Results" link.

~Z

 

[enlight78]

Does anyone know where you can find a detailed breakdown of each competitor's scores, showing elements that were completed, elements that were downgraded, and GOE? Thanks.

GO to www.isu.org and look in the top right corner. their should be a link their to the protocols.

 

[enlight78]

Does anyone know what the world standing are now and who is going to get the bonuses?