- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
4th year medical student. 1 meal a day is not healthy, period.
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
4th year medical student. 1 meal a day is not healthy, period.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
4th year medical student: severe water restriction can lead to kidney failure.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
Glamourizing an eating disorder is not nice. Period. I’m done with this whole Eteri discussion in this thread. Go to Eteri’s thread if you want to talk about her methods. I just follow this thread because I want to know news on the skaters, like ice shows, new programs etc.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
I don't think it's 100% okay to do that and I think the parents of these kids and all countries should stay on top of this. Reality says the skaters particularly the young ladies and girls are willing to sacrifice a lot to reach their dreams. It's up to their parents most of all to make sure they're healthy the coaches main job believe it or not this to prepare the student to compete execute and win.
Where were Jenny Kirks parents Gracie Gold's parents and Gabby Dalemans? This happens anywhere in figure skating not just at sambo-70. That does not mean the coaches at sambo 70s and their leaders do not need to do a better job of making sure their talent is as healthy as possible. But it's obviously easier said than done everywhere in figure skating not just in Moscow.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
You obviously dont understand the point. You can restrict the food intake for many reasons. If you do it deliberately that is not a mental/eating disorder. Doing that can obviously lead to the other sorts of problems, but you are using the wrong term to begin with. To not eat can lead to the thing which is calling disordered eating and which is a type of unhealthy behavior. But being on a diet is not always unhealthy, it can be very healthy indeed. Edit: I wanted to answer to 'el henry' with this too, who equalized eating disorder with disordered eating!
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2018
I get a little confused whenever other skaters who allegedly have (or have admitted to having) an eating disorder are invoked as any kind of defense for what may or may not be questionable practices of another team. Hypothetically, if those other skaters’ teams and/ or parents encouraged, or were complicit to, or created an environment that encouraged them when they were minors to have an eating disorder (unhealthy eating, or disordered eating, whatever you want to call it), is the argument that the other team (or the parents of skaters) who may or may not be doing it, not really doing anything wrong? If it is actually the case that Lee Barkell, Gabby’s main coach, had established a regimen for Gabby where she was to be weighed three times a day, or if he encouraged Gabby to eat only one meal a day, or praised her in an interview for eating two shrimps and being full, then I will join the chorus against him and say that he contributed to Gabby’s (alleged or admitted) eating disorder.
Otherwise, what is the point? To pin a team against another team? It is not the case that any criticism of one team is meant to uplift, elevate or promote as superior another team.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
Nobody is eating one meal per day for god sake People are using all sorts of food supplements, power food, shakes etc as a replacement for a meal. Im not saying how that is always a good choice or more healthy habit, nor im advocating for it, but nobody is on literally one meal per day. Except maybe budhists, but again that is theirs own healthy choice
And do you know how macrobiotic cuisine look like for example? My mother is doing that and her whole day food intake is basically like my one meal. You can eat a little and still be healthy.
And what severe water restriction and so on has to do with Eteri?
Its quite common in elite sports, so if you want to bash, bash them all.
I'm not saying it is good, but it is ridiculous how just one coach gets bashed while it is something extremely common.
The point is that it does not excuse any team, but crucify one team/coach for such practices while they are basically standard is ridiculous.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
The point is the pressure on these young ladies in particular is massive. The pressure to stay thin and light so they can do quads and triple axels is real because the more you weigh the less effective your quads and triple axels will be. And if you look EGs top younger girls and Alysa Liu they are really small and I really good at doing quads and triple axels. but if they gained a significant amount of weight it will negatively affect their ability to jump and perform and therein lies lie pressure all Lady figure skaters have. this is undeniable and I thank all serious figure skating fans understand these pressures for the girls. Which is why I respect them so darn much they go through so much to achieve their dreams.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
Don't feel like getting my DSM-5 out to check for the exact language, but the primary criteria for anorexia is low body weight. I copied this from an online source that looks pretty reputable and matches what I remember:
A. Restriction of energy intake relative to requirements leading to a significantly low body weight in the
context of age, sex, developmental trajectory, and physical health. Significantly low weight is defined as a
weight that is less than minimally normal or, for children and adolescents, less than that minimally
expected.
B. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, or persistent behavior that interferes with weight gain,
even though at a significantly low weight.
C. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body
weight or shape on self-evaluation, or persistent lack of recognition of the seriousness of the current low
body weight.
Specify current severity:
The minimum level of severity is based, for adults, on current body mass index (BMI) (see below) or for
children and adolescents, on BMI percentile. The ranges below are derived from World Health
Organization categories for thinness in adults; for children and adolescents, corresponding BMI percentiles
should be used. The level of severity may be increased to reflect clinical symptoms, the degree of
functional disability, and the need for supervision.
Mild: BMI > 17 kg/m2
Moderate: BMI 16-16.99 kg/m2
Severe: BMI 15-15.99 kg/m2
Extreme: BMI < 15 kg/m
For some reason I remember the cutoff for low body weight to meet criteria for anorexia to be less than 18.5 kg/m2. The specific eating pattern doesn't matter for diagnosis (although it clearly is part of the disorder), just that a person is not intaking enough calories. Recent evidence even indicates that you might not need disturbance in body image for all cases (emerging evidence about the overlap of autism spectrum and anorexia that don't involve "fear of weight gain").
Eating one meal a day could be "disordered eating" but doesn't automatically mean someone has an eating disorder if they are getting adequate nutrition and maintaining healthy body weight. Theres a lot of positive evidence about intermittent fasting where people eat one meal a day or only eat during a restricted timeframe, but this probably doesn't apply to children. But the one meal a day to me isn't necessarily problematic if its done under supervision of medical professionals.
What I do find problematic is encouraging prepubescent girls to maintain their weight over the course of their career when they are still growing and haven't reached an adult height. A petite 12-year-old who weighs 30 kg may be a healthy weight for her height and age. But this girl should not be trying to maintain that weight until she is 15-16 so that she can keep her jumps as a senior.
A. Restriction of energy intake relative to requirements leading to a significantly low body weight in the
context of age, sex, developmental trajectory, and physical health. Significantly low weight is defined as a
weight that is less than minimally normal or, for children and adolescents, less than that minimally
expected.
B. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, or persistent behavior that interferes with weight gain,
even though at a significantly low weight.
C. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body
weight or shape on self-evaluation, or persistent lack of recognition of the seriousness of the current low
body weight.
Specify current severity:
The minimum level of severity is based, for adults, on current body mass index (BMI) (see below) or for
children and adolescents, on BMI percentile. The ranges below are derived from World Health
Organization categories for thinness in adults; for children and adolescents, corresponding BMI percentiles
should be used. The level of severity may be increased to reflect clinical symptoms, the degree of
functional disability, and the need for supervision.
Mild: BMI > 17 kg/m2
Moderate: BMI 16-16.99 kg/m2
Severe: BMI 15-15.99 kg/m2
Extreme: BMI < 15 kg/m
For some reason I remember the cutoff for low body weight to meet criteria for anorexia to be less than 18.5 kg/m2. The specific eating pattern doesn't matter for diagnosis (although it clearly is part of the disorder), just that a person is not intaking enough calories. Recent evidence even indicates that you might not need disturbance in body image for all cases (emerging evidence about the overlap of autism spectrum and anorexia that don't involve "fear of weight gain").
Eating one meal a day could be "disordered eating" but doesn't automatically mean someone has an eating disorder if they are getting adequate nutrition and maintaining healthy body weight. Theres a lot of positive evidence about intermittent fasting where people eat one meal a day or only eat during a restricted timeframe, but this probably doesn't apply to children. But the one meal a day to me isn't necessarily problematic if its done under supervision of medical professionals.
What I do find problematic is encouraging prepubescent girls to maintain their weight over the course of their career when they are still growing and haven't reached an adult height. A petite 12-year-old who weighs 30 kg may be a healthy weight for her height and age. But this girl should not be trying to maintain that weight until she is 15-16 so that she can keep her jumps as a senior.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
That's within criteria A: Significantly low weight is defined as a weight that is less than minimally normal or, for children and adolescents, less than that minimally expected.
BMI for children/teens is based on their expected BMI. If you look at the charts, a BMI of 16 is perfectly healthy for a 10-year-old but underweight for a 15-year-old. There in lies the problem with encouraging preteen and teenage girls to maintain their exact body weight for several years. I think Yulia made a comment about this, that it was unrealistic for her to continue to be 80lbs the rest of her life.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
This discussion really doesn't belong to this thread. Either a thread about "Eteri's ways" should be opened, or "Comparing and discussing different coaches' ways" one.
However, saying that someone is only bashing Eteri and doesn't mind other coaches (very often in other sports brought too) is not right. You guys aren't talking about whether you agree or disagree with the certain "methods", you merely defend Eteri by bringing other people in the conversation. That conversation doesn't belong here as I said before, but why would people discuss coaches from other places when this is the Russian Ladies Thread, and Eteri has like 50%+ of the relevant students?
However, saying that someone is only bashing Eteri and doesn't mind other coaches (very often in other sports brought too) is not right. You guys aren't talking about whether you agree or disagree with the certain "methods", you merely defend Eteri by bringing other people in the conversation. That conversation doesn't belong here as I said before, but why would people discuss coaches from other places when this is the Russian Ladies Thread, and Eteri has like 50%+ of the relevant students?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Because in those accusations from "abusing" and "questionable methods" there is merely stated something particular and specific for just Eteri which would not appear in any other team (or sport), while the scale of marking something as questionable is just completely subjective. When user says that competing with wounds is abusing, than I consider as perfectly correct to point out that there is literally no top skater who would have never done that. When someone claims that he thinks that Eteri's girls are "forced" to skate (that means they have to do it against their will), that of course I feel completely free to point out that there is no such evidence that Alina or others would have been forced to do anything against their will and that such accusation is just someone's subjective conviction.
The most frequent objections are:
Food and water restrictions, watching skaters weight - absolutely common in any sport, esp. during competitions. The only specific thing is that apart from others Eteri and her skaters are pretty open about it and don't hide anything.
Skating with injuries - absolutely common. Claims about "forcing" to skate have no solid ground.
ETeri doesn't care about wounded and don't provide them support and don't give them a chance - that's just not true. Alina, Anna and even Zhenya had some more more or less serious injuries and none of them were left behind, all were provided with time for recovery.
So why not to point out that people are very selective in their accusations.
When there will be some argument based on the solid ground that Eteri surely does XY and you can't find anywhere else, then there will be time to talk about whether this particular method is admissible or not, whether I agree with that or not. But there can't be serious discussion whether particularly Eteri should be allowed to teach skaters to watch their weight when that is absolutely common and natural practise in any sport. That is not serious concern, that is nitpicking.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
My wife's weight was 50 kg when she was 20-30, while her height was 1.7 m. That's 17.3 BMI, which would be underweight according to it. She did not restrict herself with meal at all. Not that she would have been a glutton, but she has eaten perfectly normally (and loved chocolade just like Alina
). She was just lean with perfectly hourglass figure.I also has a friend, whose BMI is higher than "normal". He is in fact quite slim, but all his life he was going for sport (volleyball, bike, now dragonboats). So he is "one muscle" (not in brain, he graduated in nuclear physics and works as a scientist researcher - he is one of those people that are on the slightly different level than we mere mortals, good at everything he does), and muscles weight more than fat.
So, BMI is only very orientational method how to measure body weight, that can be used just for average of average. It is completely useless when it comes to active athletes (there are different requirements on gymnasts, weghtlifters, maraton runners, sprinters and of course figure skaters) or people whose body type is not "average".
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
Eating issues is a problem in figure skate as a sport in general and increasing the age of eligibility to help prevent this issue should be considered. We would be selfish to say no to this just because we want to enjoy the best programs and technical content.
Regarding Eteri, what I have heard from Yulia, Zhenya, Alina, and Polina are worrying to me. I won't comment on training while injured as athletes in every sport do it and it's difficult to assess which injuries are too much generally. I understand that there are always financial restrictions and Khrustalny has them too, but if you are insisting on weighing your students 'in house' every single day then I believe it is wrong for there not to be an accompanying nutritionist advising the skaters and their parents. It is not an Eteri only problem and eating disorders can happen even with nutritional help, but it is reckless for it not to be provided at all whilst monitoring weight as stringently as this.
Regarding Eteri, what I have heard from Yulia, Zhenya, Alina, and Polina are worrying to me. I won't comment on training while injured as athletes in every sport do it and it's difficult to assess which injuries are too much generally. I understand that there are always financial restrictions and Khrustalny has them too, but if you are insisting on weighing your students 'in house' every single day then I believe it is wrong for there not to be an accompanying nutritionist advising the skaters and their parents. It is not an Eteri only problem and eating disorders can happen even with nutritional help, but it is reckless for it not to be provided at all whilst monitoring weight as stringently as this.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Actually they are allowed to eat the carrot's tail and The Witch of the Crystal Dome eats all the carrots.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
Where the hell are the moderators????? Why haven’t they put a stop to this ongoing conversation about Eteri??
You guys, STOP IT ALREADY.
You guys, STOP IT ALREADY.
