2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

In JGPF 2017 Sasha fell on her 4S too and still won the title. In WC 2019 Kihira fell on her second 3A and still had second best free skate of the day (better than many flawless skaters). And so on. So, are you trying to prove that with one fall/fault in two programs you are not allowed to have better score than Gubanova? I don't think so.

In 2018 Junior Rusnats Nastya was deserved first and got 4th while the 3 ahead of her fell and fell hard. Not good for the sport for someone to finish 4th while skating 2 flawless programs when the 3 ahead of her all fell. At that time Sasha looked like a little girl compared to Nastya but got the respect a much older girl would get. The Eteri factor too. Yes things have changed alot in the past year and Nastya would have a hard time coming within 10 points of Sasha. But at that event the scoring was a mess even those all the top girls did well I dont like seeing hard falls getting rewarded over clean and beautiful skating and artistry. I never have and never will.

 

[Edwin]

Is Gubanova back in Sankt Peterburg now and putting her best blade forward in training?
Have her fundings been transferred to her new club?
Is her FFKKR competition license and all the other paperwork in order?
Will she participate in the coming Test Skates fully prepared?

Or is she still in limbo, sulking in denial and misery over lost chances?
If she still wants to make something out of this season, she’d better put the past behind her and start working her hardest, hoping for a clean slate with the powers in charge.

 

[Scott512]

If you look at the protocols all the technical advantage Kostornaya had compared to Gubanova was due to judges who called Nastya second 3-3-2 combo underrotated. (then obviously GOE and components)

Gubanova also had a backloaded program outside the opening combo and unlike Kostornaya she had 2 lutzes.

https://fsrussia.ru/results/1718/junnat1718/e__Scores.pdf

Anyway it's a bit pointless discussing it now, you can't change it.



Oh come on, while you're right it's not as clear as with other skaters but you know as well that Eteri skaters were saved at domestic competitions, i watched a lot of cup of russia events this year and last, and there were definitely a couple where i remember Usacheva finishing on the podium despite big mistakes in the SP like missing the combo and even some small little mistake in the free.

It's clear to me that sometimes judges give Eteri's skaters the benefit of the doubt not dropping scores as harshly whenever they make mistakes, not checking the edges, it's not even that i'm all fully against it, at the end of the day they bring the results, all of this didn't come out of nowhere.

It's funny you mentioned Viner cause i think we're slowly getting there, wait another Olympics or two. A lot has changed since Pyeongchang, before that Eteri was truly no one, now her opinions have weight.

You cant change it like you wrote. But it started a bad pattern of underscoring for Nastya. Certainly 3A are better than her now without question but at that even Nastya deserved first and got fourth. That was a major setback for Nastya she deserved to go to junior worlds after the way she skate at JGPF and Jr Rusnats. But politics got in the way. I hope Nastya can change and find her way but she will have to be flawless to even get close to 3A Liza Zhenya or even beat Stasya. It is what it is. I hoe she has the coach who can help her. I wish she never left Turenko.

 

[flanker]

In 2018 Junior Rusnats Nastya was deserved first and got 4th while the 3 ahead of her fell and fell hard. Not good for the sport for someone to finish 4th while skating 2 flawless programs when the 3 ahead of her all fell. At that time Sasha looked like a little girl compared to Nastya but got the respect a much older girl would get. The Eteri factor too. Yes things have changed alot in the past year and Nastya would have a hard time coming within 10 points of Sasha. But at that event the scoring was a mess even those all the top girls did well I dont like seeing hard falls getting rewarded over clean and beautiful skating and artistry. I never have and never will.

Please read the other comment and look at the protocols.

 

[colormyworld240]

Well jgpf 2017 Kostornaia could have win if judges gave her better pcs but then judges didn’t call her wrong edge while Samodurova got edge attention as I remember.2019WC?Kihira fell on her 3a but remember her 3a3t.What Trusova did at junior nationals was 4s fell and also underotated. Do you think It’s same?

I brought up this is not because I want to argue with results.If it was unfair or whatever,It won’t change anything.We should not live in the past should focus on present and future.I brought up this because Nussnacker totally didn’t undersrtand the situation what nastya had.

Should’ve never said that you kind of always expect athletes to say: I will work harder, I lost due to my own faults, this wasn't accomplished because I wasn't preparing correctly.
She doesn't seem to think this way…

Many people think nastya’s issue with this interview is being arrogant.What if she got fair score,went to major competitions and had career.Who dare to say she is arrogant.

Except isn't Trusova's BV higher than Gubanova's even with the fall and UR quad? And Kostornaia gets more points on all her other jumps and spins, in GOE, as she deserves, despite the Lz falls.

But Gubanova doesn't even talk about this competition. She just points out the 3A are lucky because they have not hit puberty and can jump quads, when she herself couldn't jump quads before puberty. Then she said Tuktamysheva and Medvedeva are lucky because of reputation scoring (yes reputation scoring is true for those two and Zagitova, but they also earned that reputation themselves) where as she didn't. And then she said Zagitova was lucky her birthday was early so she could qualify to the olympics, but she herself wouldn't have qualified even if she had the same birthday, as qualification was RN 2018. Even when they were on the same "age" field, like RN 2017, Zagitova finished second and where was Gubanova? They were both juniors then, and had the same reputation (finishing 1-2 at JGPF).

Gubanova, while having been shaded by the fed a few times, was given the same chance as Kostornaia and Trusova on her last season on the JGP. They all got one JGP. While the others won their competitions to secure a second spot (and subsequent successes), Gubanova finished off the podium, and of course did not get a second spot; others who finished with a silver medal didn't even get a second spot. And yes, last season she was unlucky to have boot problems (and was there an injury?). But also Kostornaia had inflammation, Medvedeva broke her leg, and Zagitova and Shcherbakova broke their arms and legs. And Zagitova also went through a big growth spurt, and even when she lost RN by a lot, you didn't see her saying "oh the juniors only won because they're prepubescent". So no, they're not luckier, they just took advantage of every chance they got, and are successful because they work on improving and don't think they're the best and are just treated unfairly.

 

[Fluture]

I haven‘t read all the posts. Can someone enlighten me which competition we‘re talking about where Gubanova supposedly should have finished first and was robbed? Junior Nationals 2017 or 18? I mean, I agree that Nastya got some unfair scores but not in the extent that she should have finished above Sasha and Aliona. At least not at any competition I can remember. I remember Stasya being propped and being sent to Junior Worlds instead of her, which I think was indeed unfair. But her having a case for Junior Nats champion? Hm. I don‘t remember that.

Also, whatever we‘re talking about let‘s not forget that this is the old judging system. Which is the reason Sasha won at the JGPF that season, under the current system, like we saw this year, Aliona would have won.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

I haven‘t read all the posts. Can someone enlighten me which competition we‘re talking about where Gubanova supposedly should have finished first and was robbed? Junior Nationals 2017 or 18? I mean, I agree that Nastya got some unfair scores but not in the extent that she should have finished above Sasha and Aliona. At least not at any competition I can remember. I remember Stasya being propped and being sent to Junior Worlds instead of her, which I think was indeed unfair. But her having a case for Junior Nats champion? Hm. I don‘t remember that.

Also, whatever we‘re talking about let‘s not forget that this is the old judging system. Which is the reason Sasha won at the JGPF that season, under the current system, like we saw this year, Aliona would have won.

They're talking about Junior Nationals 2017. The year the Jr. Worlds team was Trusova, Kostornaya, and Konstantinova.

 

[Vandevska]

Yes but I think after what we saw from Alina and the three new Russian juniors it won't take much for Russian fed to make an excuse not put Alina on the team. Yes, Masha had like 6 bad performances but I pretty much knew that she was done for after placing 9th at NHK you can't do that in many major feds these days (especially Russia) and expect to still make the team. Also the only reasons for Masha being on GP this year #1 (France always invites her), #2 (she was still in top 24 WS and I the nations pick standings before season's bests), and #3 (Maria just switched coaches so maybe that gave fed new hope because 3 months ago she switched to Sokolovskaia and she is training with Samarin).:agree:

I don't know how your first sentence is related in any way to Gubanova. Rus fed usually makes very good choices when it comes to maximising their chances for medals. They'll do anything they see fit. And it's not making an excuse. But also, why do you think they would want to find an excuse to have the reigning Olympic and World championship off the team? They're not stupid. Zagitova has a very good chance of having a very good season. It's anyone's chance tbh. Let's just wait and see.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I haven‘t read all the posts. Can someone enlighten me which competition we‘re talking about where Gubanova supposedly should have finished first and was robbed? Junior Nationals 2017 or 18? I mean, I agree that Nastya got some unfair scores but not in the extent that she should have finished above Sasha and Aliona. At least not at any competition I can remember. I remember Stasya being propped and being sent to Junior Worlds instead of her, which I think was indeed unfair. But her having a case for Junior Nats champion? Hm. I don‘t remember that.

Also, whatever we‘re talking about let‘s not forget that this is the old judging system. Which is the reason Sasha won at the JGPF that season, under the current system, like we saw this year, Aliona would have won.

Yes it is the 2018 Jr Nationals that they are talking about. And there seems to be some misremembering of the events.

It was the 2016 JGPF where Nastya finished second to Alina. Then 2017 Jr Nationals where Alina won, Sasha was 4th, Nastya was 7th, and Alena was 17th. Alina, Stasya, and Polina Tsurskaya were sent to Jr Worlds that year.

The 2017 JGP was where Sasha and Alena began their run. It was their first junior eligible season and Nastya’s second. Sasha came out with quad attempts and Alena was much improved after switching to Eteri. Sasha won both her events, Alena won one and came second in another, while Nastya finished 4th at hers and wasn’t offered a second spot. This is where she really lost a lot of ground to them.

Then Jr Nationals 2018 where Sasha and Alena finished 1-2 after same result at the JGPF and Nastya was narrowly edged by Stasya for bronze in a controversial decision and missed out on Jr Worlds.

I can see some argument that the scores should have been closer and certainly Nastyas PCS should have been equal to if not higher than Sasha’s. But at the same time Sasha is a very talented jumper with 3L+3Lo even without the quad, you cannot really argue that she doesn’t deserve her placements. And in my opinion Alena is the most superior in PCS of all the Russian ladies even Alina.

My issue with Nastya is not that she points out a potential “Eteri bonus” or discrepancy in scoring but that she does so in a way that completely undermines the achievements of her competitors, almost like she thinks they aren’t talented at all and are only winning due to gifts in scoring to Eteri skaters.

 

[Ice Dance]

Gubanova has gorgeous execution.

She may not have consistency on her jumps, but she beats most--perhaps all--of the Russian field on posture, musicality, and line. IMO.

 

[starla16]

for their senior debut, Shcherbakova and Trusova's account are verified on instagram while Alena hasnt yet
what does this mean and impression from fans ?

barring disaster Trusova and Zagitova are almost guaranteed to go all the continental and World championships. That leaves on space open, can Med land her attempted 4S, can Tuk maintain her good form from last season a bit cut short of momentum, will Kostornayas stability be enough to breakout as a senior contender, will Shcherbakova be the darkhorse amongst all the russian ladies and become a top contender in her senior debut.

 

[Vandevska]

for their senior debut, Shcherbakova and Trusova's account are verified on instagram while Alena hasnt yet
what does this mean and impression from fans ?

barring disaster Trusova and Zagitova are almost guaranteed to go all the continental and World championships. That leaves on space open, can Med land her attempted 4S, can Tuk maintain her good form from last season a bit cut short of momentum, will Kostornayas stability be enough to breakout as a senior contender, will Shcherbakova be the darkhorse amongst all the russian ladies and become a top contender in her senior debut.

Honestly, I'm more worried about Alena than Zhenya :/

 

[ruga]

for their senior debut, Shcherbakova and Trusova's account are verified on instagram while Alena hasnt yet
what does this mean and impression from fans ?

barring disaster Trusova and Zagitova are almost guaranteed to go all the continental and World championships. That leaves on space open, can Med land her attempted 4S, can Tuk maintain her good form from last season a bit cut short of momentum, will Kostornayas stability be enough to breakout as a senior contender, will Shcherbakova be the darkhorse amongst all the russian ladies and become a top contender in her senior debut.

'Aliona_officialnew' doesn't sound like a very verifiable account, does it The thing is, she has forgotten her password and created a new account a few times so there are 2 or 3 her old 'official' inactive accounts currently on IG. I think next season it will be verified (if she doesn't forget password again of course).

As for another paragraph, I'd not consider Alina a lock. If situation similar to this year's Nationals happens she won't be included in the team. She has lots of achievements, but it doesn't seem that they matter to RusFed if skater's current form is worse.

Medvedeva+quads situation is not very clear. We know it may take a whole season of trying to finally get a difficult element.

Aliona will break out with her PCS and GOE if her main opponents (other 3A's) make at least a small mistake. To become stronger, she needs to work to repeat 3Lz in FP, try loop combos or 3A.

Anna relies on her 4Lz and consistency with other jumps because even without quad her BV is very high, but GOE is bit limited for jumping passes as she doesn't get a lot of height.

Trusova is the most likely to be included in the Worlds team, provided that she lands at least 2 quads.

Elizaveta has lots of potential with two or even three 3A's in both programs. However, she has been inconsistent from season to season. Let's see how this one works for her.

Sofia 'The Consistency Queen' Samodurova will shine in case of a disaster.

 

[Georgya]

I was talking about junior nationals in 2018.
Videos are available on youtube.

Kostornaia her SP she made a fall on her Lutz. https://youtu.be/JhA_z7ARF18

Trusova her FS she made a fall on her 4S. https://youtu.be/5OAPqkSGEfc

Gubanova her SP and her FP

https://youtu.be/kX7hZWCcZ6U

https://youtu.be/KLXupnfK-08

Konstantinova her SP Step out and missed her combo.

https://youtu.be/JBIwBq2PaP4

This is why we should not expect Nastya to say I'll work harder, I lost due to my own faults like that.Even she was the only one who made clean programs What rusfed did?It doesn't matter how she's good or how she performed. If Rusfed have stupid intention they will give her terrible Goe terrible Pcs.

I fully disagree with your point. This is precisely why Gubanova should have said "I'll work harder. I'm gonna prove to them my true value". In best case scenario she should have criticised the system, the judges BUT NOT HER RIVALS.

Alina, Stanislava and all the russian ladies that beat her have no fault that she considers unfair her situation. The rules of fair play state that you don't attack your rivals because you didn't win or deserved a better placement. That is a bad display of unsportsmanlike conduct from her part and as her fan I'm disappointed.

P.S. I don't think that Eteri's skaters are being pushed by the judges internally or externally. And even if this would be the case, maybe I'm wrong, but it's not a bad plan from the rusfed. Eteri's skaters are the most consistent in Russia and they rely on difficulty. As we have seen program components can be easily manipulated in Russia and outside Russia. This is not helping skaters like Gubanova. I adore her musicality, interpretation and delicacy on ice but her jumps are not always great. She needs to work harder so she can send the message she could make a difference for Russia in international competitions. Alena and Alexandra beating her in 2018 JRN was fair, Stanislava not so much.

Last season was not good for her, in international competitions she was beaten by Serafima Sakhanovich, Ting Cui and Lindfors in Tallinn and by Bradie Tennell in Zagreb where, by the way, she earned a personal best score of 198.65 points. I think Anastasia should stop complaining or at least change the target of her frustrations and focus on training harder, more so technically.

 

[Scott512]

Gubanova has gorgeous execution.

She may not have consistency on her jumps, but she beats most--perhaps all--of the Russian field on posture, musicality, and line. IMO.

All. All true about Nastya. It's not really debatable. And because I'm a very fair and pragmatic poster I'll also say it's not really debatable that she needs to be more consistent. Which is why I wanted her with Mishin so she could train with Sofia the queen of consistency and Liza the queen of comebacks. But it didn't happen and I hope working with this new coach at a highly thought of choreographer gets her her best programs of her career. Anastasiya did that questionable interview with that Rodina woman and it turned out badly for her. It's just time for Nastya to put all the disappointments behind her and have her best season yet.

Someone mentioned the Eteri bonus. Oh it's real. The question is how many points is the Eteri bonus worth? Let me put it this way it's more than a couple points. She has great kids to work with talented hard-working gutsy and courageous. But none of them would be where they are without her and achieved a great success they've had without her and they know it.

Can't wait for the season to see how much better Zhenya is this season than last season with her big transition
period over and also how Alina defends her undisputed heavyweight champion of the world ( world championship) status! Get your popcorn ready.

 

[moriel]

In 2018 Junior Rusnats Nastya was deserved first and got 4th while the 3 ahead of her fell and fell hard. Not good for the sport for someone to finish 4th while skating 2 flawless programs when the 3 ahead of her all fell. At that time Sasha looked like a little girl compared to Nastya but got the respect a much older girl would get. The Eteri factor too. Yes things have changed alot in the past year and Nastya would have a hard time coming within 10 points of Sasha. But at that event the scoring was a mess even those all the top girls did well I dont like seeing hard falls getting rewarded over clean and beautiful skating and artistry. I never have and never will.

That is not how CoP works.
Chen/Hanyu can fall and still beat a clean Jason Brown.

 

[Georgya]

I haven‘t read all the posts. Can someone enlighten me which competition we‘re talking about where Gubanova supposedly should have finished first and was robbed? Junior Nationals 2017 or 18? I mean, I agree that Nastya got some unfair scores but not in the extent that she should have finished above Sasha and Aliona. At least not at any competition I can remember. I remember Stasya being propped and being sent to Junior Worlds instead of her, which I think was indeed unfair. But her having a case for Junior Nats champion? Hm. I don‘t remember that.

Also, whatever we‘re talking about let‘s not forget that this is the old judging system. Which is the reason Sasha won at the JGPF that season, under the current system, like we saw this year, Aliona would have won.

It's the 2018 JRN - the most important competition in the world after Sochi 2014 apparently after the extent it is debated here I love Gubanova but is wrong to defend her by suggesting that there is a conspiracy in Russia to rob her and that she didn't have success till now because Eteri's Skaters are helped by the judges. And yes Gubanova deserved bronze there over Stanislava.

 

[Scott512]

I fully disagree with your point. This is precisely why Gubanova should have said "I'll work harder. I'm gonna prove to them my true value". In best case scenario she should have criticised the system, the judges BUT NOT HER RIVALS.

Alina, Stanislava and all the russian ladies that beat her have no fault that she considers unfair her situation. The rules of fair play state that you don't attack your rivals because you didn't win or deserved a better placement. That is a bad display of unsportsmanlike conduct from her part and as her fan I'm disappointed.

P.S. I don't think that Eteri's skaters are being pushed by the judges internally or externally. And even if this would be the case, maybe I'm wrong, but it's not a bad plan from the rusfed. Eteri's skaters are the most consistent in Russia and they rely on difficulty. As we have seen program components can be easily manipulated in Russia and outside Russia. This is not helping skaters like Gubanova. I adore her musicality, interpretation and delicacy on ice but her jumps are not always great. She needs to work harder so she can send the message she could make a difference for Russia in international competitions. Alena and Alexandra beating her in 2018 JRN was fair, Stanislava not so much.

Last season was not good for her, in international competitions she was beaten by Serafima Sakhanovich, Ting Cui and Lindfors in Tallinn and by Bradie Tennell in Zagreb where, by the way, she earned a personal best score of 198.65 points. I think Anastasia should stop complaining or at least change the target of her frustrations and focus on training harder, more so technically.

You are kind of harsh on Nastya. Harsh but to be fair which I always try to be I have to say accurate too. You have good advice for Anastasia. I hope her new coach or choreographer or parents or advisers tell her the same things. I say let her fans and supporters fret about her situation. But she needs to move on and improve her situation by quite a lot. She obviously doesn't have an advisor helping her because no one would have advised her to do that interview with Elena Rodina whose job in that interview was to open up the old wounds for Nastya and get her to talk about them. She did not come across well in that interview and I hope she learns from it. nastya came across well in that online interview after her former coach went public how she expelled Nastya from cska. Nastya was very humble in that interview probably still in shock by what her former coach said.

It's a jungle out there with the Russian ladies let's be honest. It's very hard to make headway against the top girls. it'll be interesting to see if this season and have nastya can get better and stasya can improve and especially if Zhenya can find her best form with her new team.

 

[Scott512]

That is not how CoP works.
Chen/Hanyu can fall and still beat a clean Jason Brown.

Tolstoj astutely pointed out that Nastya did two Lutz's to Alena's one. That matters as does staying on your skates and skating beautifully and artistically. Or it should. I like both about the same because they have similar skills and I will readily admit that Alena has gone past Nastya by quite a ways (thanks to EG) at this point. And if Alena did not fall hard in that competition I would have no problem with her being two spots ahead of Nastya. But she did and I do. Of course the big issue is with Stanislava finishing ahead of Anastasia in that event. That was really disappointing and unfair since she fell too. so the way anastasiya skated in the junior Russian Nationals and the Grand Prix final and then not go to Junior Worlds was absurd.

Now onto the 2019-2020 season. It can't get here soon enough.

 

[Ostap Bender]

It's a jungle out there with the Russian ladies let's be honest. It's very hard to make headway against the top girls.

But it is no reason for Nastya to intentionally disparage these top girls. These girls work hard, they do not decide what the judges award, and have no influence on the RusFed's decisions. My opinion, watching all girls for these past years, is that Gubanova is not more talented or a better skater than many of them. She is over rating herself, and blaming her lack of success on others and other factors.

It is "bad sport" to speak badly about your competition, and Gubanova did exactly that, willingly.