2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Fluture]

Alena has better skating skills than not just Alina, but all the Russian ladies. If you're talking about those who score higher than her, Alena also has better skating skills than Evgenia also who also gets 9s, and performance, etc. But whenever someone says anything like that, people start bringing out the "you can praise one without putting down the other". So it either applies to all or none.

I wouldn‘t say I completely agree with this. Aliona is better than most of them but I think we shouldn‘t forget Nastya Tarakanova. I know she‘s kind of going through a difficult time with all the coaching changes and while she‘s not as refined and elegant as Aliona, she‘s faster than her and her edgework is of the same quality. So, I‘d put them on the same level, if not even Tarakanova a bit ahead. Kanysheva also has nice edges but she‘s a bit slow. I haven‘t watched Sinitsyna often enough but from what I remembered, she had pretty good skating skills too. Panova seems to do something right here, it seems. But yeah, overall, Tarakanova and Kostornaya clearly on top.

As for Aliona vs. Evgenia, I think that‘s fair to say. Evgenia has put in some real work on improving her skating skills with Tracy but her edges aren‘t as deep as Aliona‘s and she‘s also slower. So, yes. I agree. Personally, for me performance is the aspect where Aliona can improve because while she‘s a very musical skater she isn‘t as emotive yet and her facial expression doesn‘t change at all throughout the program. I‘d say Alina but especially Evgenia who‘s known for emotional performances (miming, anyone? ) are ahead of her in this aspect. Aliona definitely does beat both for me in the transitions part, though, at least with the way their programs were constructed last year. Evgenia basically had a lack of transitions so that‘s not comparable anyway and while Alina does dozens of them, I feel like Aliona‘s are better executed. They look easier and cleaner and not as rushed. It will be interesting to see how their programs will look like this season because Evgenia CAN add some transitions and Alina CAN perform hers better if Daniil allows her to breathe a bit and hold her moves. So, as for now I put Aliona ahead of Evgenia in the skating skills and transitions category while Evgenia beats her in performance. They‘re about even in interpretation even though I would put Evgenia slightly ahead here but that‘s pretty subjective in this case and it‘s also a small margin. As for Aliona and Alina, Aliona wins again in skating skills and transitions and also slightly in interpretation because I feel like she interprets the music with her body better than Alina does. Alina is ahead of her in performance, though because while she‘s not the most emotional skater, she can show a bit more variety than Aliona did so far.

I really tried to be fair and objective here but I guess everyone will be a bit biased for their favorites in something like PCS that‘s not as clear cut as - let‘s say whether a jump should get positive or negative GOE. (And even that‘s quite the challenge sometimes lol)

 

[Fluture]

Yes. Let's say that some hypothetical skater is better in skating skills than Alina. In such case this hypothetical skater must necessarily be better then the rest of russian ladies, because Alina has better skating skills than any other russian lady apart from the hypothetical skater from this task. Just for example (because, you know, when you praise Alina, you have to give an example, while putting somebody above Alina requires nothing but an opinion), results of Alina in WC were 9.21+9.11=18.32 for skating skills in SP and FP vs. next best russian lady - can't remember the name now - who had 9.08+9.18=18.26.

Well, not going to argue here but just noting that taking the judging as an example is not always the best thing to do. Because according to them, Zhenya‘s lutz edge is completely, perfectly outside like 85% of the time. I don‘t think I need to tell you how accurate that is. So... I don‘t see the argument of scores when the exact thing we were talking about is how the judges don‘t necessarily apply their own criteria to judging PCS and most importantly, skating skills.

Also don‘t get your sarcastic tone about Alina. In the end it‘s always opinions. Most in here try to base them on arguments, though and examples whether they‘re praising or comparing. Because you can‘t really discuss with opinions alone.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

Maybe? Who knows. I don't want to say that Eteri's new crop of juniors are weaker than Alyona, Anna, and Sasha, especially since Kamila and Kanysheva are quite strong, but I don't think Usacheva and Khromykh have necessarily proven themselves yet. The field at JGP Courchevel is noticeably weaker than JGP Lake Placid, at least I think, so I think it'll be easier for Kanysheva and Usacheva to go 1-2 there, even with Usacheva's inconsistency.

 

[Grin]

I got two tickers for test skates )
I'm so exited, just can't wait )

 

[Fluture]

Maybe? Who knows. I don't want to say that Eteri's new crop of juniors are weaker than Alyona, Anna, and Sasha, especially since Kamila and Kanysheva are quite strong, but I don't think Usacheva and Khromykh have necessarily proven themselves yet. The field at JGP Courchevel is noticeably weaker than JGP Lake Placid, at least I think, so I think it'll be easier for Kanysheva and Usacheva to go 1-2 there, even with Usacheva's inconsistency.

I think if we want to compare the 3A to Eteri‘s new juniors, I think we have to compare them at when they were the same age. The 3A are about to be seniors, they should be ahead of the juniors by now in some aspects. When people say Khromykh and Usacheva haven‘t proven themselves yet, I agree completely but let‘s not forget Aliona because she hadn‘t proven herself either until very, very shortly before her first JGP season. So, I think Usacheva and Khromykh are definitely more well known by now. It will be interesting to see how they do on the international stage, though and I think it‘s clever they paired a more experienced girl (Kanysheva) with Usacheva who‘s new to the scene. They also put some more experienced girls against Alysa and the stronger field at Lake Placid (btw, who are the Japanese girls there?) without sending their strongest bets which I feel might be Kanysheva but especially Valieva. I definitely think we will see Valieva in the Russian JGP. Also, how exciting is it that Russia‘s finally hosting a JGP? We might actually finally get a decent amount of spectators and of course, another spot for our ladies and a way to earn a ticket for the final.

 

[andromache]

Alena has better skating skills than not just Alina, but all the Russian ladies. If you're talking about those who score higher than her, Alena also has better skating skills than Evgenia also who also gets 9s, and performance, etc. But whenever someone says anything like that, people start bringing out the "you can praise one without putting down the other". So it either applies to all or none.

Sure. Alena is better than Evgenia as well. But Alina receives the highest PCS in the world right now, higher than Evgenia, so I used Alina as an example. Sorry, just didn't really see the point in listing every single woman in Russia or the world who I think Alena is better than in PCS, so I picked the one with the highest PCS.

 

[andromache]

Yes. Let's say that some hypothetical skater is better in skating skills than Alina. In such case this hypothetical skater must necessarily be better then the rest of russian ladies, because Alina has better skating skills than any other russian lady apart from the hypothetical skater from this task. Just for example (because, you know, when you praise Alina, you have to give an example, while putting somebody above Alina requires nothing but an opinion), results of Alina in WC were 9.21+9.11=18.32 for skating skills in SP and FP vs. next best russian lady - can't remember the name now - who had 9.08+9.18=18.26.

Do we really think judges' scores reflect reality so accurately? If that's the case, why does Tarakanova receive such low PCS compared to other ladies? Are her skating skills really that bad?

 

[sailormoon]

Really? I would say Trusova's 4T is more consistent than Anna's 4Lz.

At the Cup of Russia (Stage 2), Anna Shcherbakova started her free skate with 4Lz+3T, 4Lz and scored 159.43. I guess Shcherbakova will keep this opening layout to top Rika Kihira in the next season, who stunned the world with 3A+3T, 3A in the free skate.

https://fsrussia.ru/results/1819/2etap/eMC__Scores.pdf

 

[Fluture]

At the Cup of Russia (Stage 2), Anna Shcherbakova started her free skate with 4Lz+3T, 4Lz and scored 159.43. I guess Shcherbakova will keep this opening layout to top Kihira in the next season.

https://fsrussia.ru/results/1819/2etap/eMC__Scores.pdf

I‘m honestly not so sure she will. Two quad lutzes is very dangerous because she‘s risking getting a +REP if she can‘t manage to put one in combination. I feel like if Anna adds a second quad it will be the flip we‘ve seen in training. And Kihira won‘t be her main focus at the beginning of the season. She will not be competing against her until the GPF so she needs to focus on winning her GP events first and beat the Russians that are there to make a serious case for the Russian team.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I wouldn‘t say I completely agree with this. Aliona is better than most of them but I think we shouldn‘t forget Nastya Tarakanova. I know she‘s kind of going through a difficult time with all the coaching changes and while she‘s not as refined and elegant as Aliona, she‘s faster than her and her edgework is of the same quality. So, I‘d put them on the same level, if not even Tarakanova a bit ahead. Kanysheva also has nice edges but she‘s a bit slow. I haven‘t watched Sinitsyna often enough but from what I remembered, she had pretty good skating skills too. Panova seems to do something right here, it seems. But yeah, overall, Tarakanova and Kostornaya clearly on top.

As for Aliona vs. Evgenia, I think that‘s fair to say. Evgenia has put in some real work on improving her skating skills with Tracy but her edges aren‘t as deep as Aliona‘s and she‘s also slower. So, yes. I agree. Personally, for me performance is the aspect where Aliona can improve because while she‘s a very musical skater she isn‘t as emotive yet and her facial expression doesn‘t change at all throughout the program. I‘d say Alina but especially Evgenia who‘s known for emotional performances (miming, anyone? ) are ahead of her in this aspect. Aliona definitely does beat both for me in the transitions part, though, at least with the way their programs were constructed last year. Evgenia basically had a lack of transitions so that‘s not comparable anyway and while Alina does dozens of them, I feel like Aliona‘s are better executed. They look easier and cleaner and not as rushed. It will be interesting to see how their programs will look like this season because Evgenia CAN add some transitions and Alina CAN perform hers better if Daniil allows her to breathe a bit and hold her moves. So, as for now I put Aliona ahead of Evgenia in the skating skills and transitions category while Evgenia beats her in performance. They‘re about even in interpretation even though I would put Evgenia slightly ahead here but that‘s pretty subjective in this case and it‘s also a small margin. As for Aliona and Alina, Aliona wins again in skating skills and transitions and also slightly in interpretation because I feel like she interprets the music with her body better than Alina does. Alina is ahead of her in performance, though because while she‘s not the most emotional skater, she can show a bit more variety than Aliona did so far.

I really tried to be fair and objective here but I guess everyone will be a bit biased for their favorites in something like PCS that‘s not as clear cut as - let‘s say whether a jump should get positive or negative GOE. (And even that‘s quite the challenge sometimes lol)

I think this is quite a good observation, I would give Aliona the "benefit of the doubt" of some sorts, since Alina did have more opportunities for programs in general than Aliona, so I think versatility is hardish to judge.

Also, if I may add my one cent to this is little discussion about Alionas SS in comparison, I do think she is definitely one of the best already at her age, I do however think that in IN and PER, she is still edged out by Elena and Zhenya.

 

[Fluture]

I think this is quite a good observation, I would give Aliona the "benefit of the doubt" of some sorts, since Alina did have more opportunities for programs in general than Aliona, so I think versatility is hardish to judge.

Also, if I may add my one cent to this is little discussion about Alionas SS in comparison, I do think she is definitely one of the best already at her age, I do however think that in IN and PER, she is still edged out by Elena and Zhenya.

Thanks for your addition to my post. I agree about what you said and it‘s a good point to consider that Aliona didn‘t have as much time to show versatility in her programs.

Elena definitely beats them all at performance. I mean, say what you will about her but girl knows how to perform! I‘m a bit hesitant about interpretation, though because to me, while she was always very engaged in her programs, Elena‘s moves with her arms were somehow all over the place and I don‘t think she always moved her body in correlation to the music. That‘s kinda a harsh way to put it and I‘m sorry I don‘t have another expression but I always felt this (alongside her posture) was definitely something she could work on. But she was definitely more passionate and emotional and I think this is something Aliona needs to improve. She‘s lovely to look at when she skates but she could engage with the audience more. Also, do we know anything about Elena? It doesn‘t look like she‘s competing this season, or have I missed anything?

 

[Vandevska]

Yes. Let's say that some hypothetical skater is better in skating skills than Alina. In such case this hypothetical skater must necessarily be better then the rest of russian ladies, because Alina has better skating skills than any other russian lady apart from the hypothetical skater from this task. Just for example (because, you know, when you praise Alina, you have to give an example, while putting somebody above Alina requires nothing but an opinion), results of Alina in WC were 9.21+9.11=18.32 for skating skills in SP and FP vs. next best russian lady - can't remember the name now - who had 9.08+9.18=18.26.

Of course, just like for one other skater only negative things are discussed here and anything positive is avoided.
_______________

Sometimes I feel like you and me are a mirror image of the 2 ends of a stick

edit: Also, you can praise Alina without dragging Evgenia too

 

[5Axel]

next best russian lady - can't remember the name now

You can't be serious :'D.
Come on, if you are able to find detailed PCS of "the next best Russian lady, whose name you can't remember now ", you are capable of finding her name as well .

BTW Med, as you like to call her, isn't an option either. It's really disrespectful, don't you think?

 

[Vandevska]

You can't be serious :'D.
Come on, if you are able to find detailed PCS of "the next best Russian lady, whose name you can't remember now ", you are capable of finding her name as well .

BTW Med, as you like to call her, isn't an option either. It's really disrespectful, don't you think?

Here's a reason for you to like it: it means honey in Russian, and most other (if not all) Slavic languages

 

[Scott512]

You can't be serious :'D.
Come on, if you are able to find detailed PCS of "the next best Russian lady, whose name you can't remember now ", you are capable of finding her name as well .

BTW Med, as you like to call her, isn't an option either. It's really disrespectful, don't you think?

Flanker calls Evgenia Med? Funny the things you don't notice because I've never noticed
that.

All this talk about skating skills is accurate if you say Alena K is at the top over all other Russian ladies and all other ladies for that matter. I think there's someone else from Russia right there with her as far as skating skills go but she shall remain nameless at this time.

As for Zhenya I expect her to make a big jump up this season in performance. Much better than last year. It will be interesting to see if she and Liza and Alina can keep 3A at bay.

 

[Fluture]

You can't be serious :'D.
Come on, if you are able to find detailed PCS of "the next best Russian lady, whose name you can't remember now ", you are capable of finding her name as well .

BTW Med, as you like to call her, isn't an option either. It's really disrespectful, don't you think?

I think we should just start to call “Zag“ and “Med“ ”that one skater person who won the gold/silver in that mildly important competition somewhere in Asia“

 

[andromache]

I'm pretty surprised that so many here think Alysa Liu will have a significant chance of playing spoiler for Russian dominance this year.

While I think she's likely to be favored at the American JGP event, otherwise I do not think the judges will be so kind. Her jumps are consistent but also small and at big risk of UR, and her skating is slow with pretty weak SS. The Russian juniors will outclass her in basically every way at this point. And I'm not trying to be negative about Alysa - I'm generally a US lady fan! But just being realistic - she has a lot of development to do. She's version 1.0 of US "wunderkind girl", and the Russian ladies are on version 5.0 of their own wunderkind girls. They're leagues ahead of her.

I won't be surprised if she wins gold in her first JGP, but I think she will have a hard time placing higher than third at any other JGP event. But it will be interesting to see how JGP assignments pan out on both sides.

 

[5Axel]

Here's a reason for you to like it: it means honey in Russian, and most other (if not all) Slavic languages [emoji3] [emoji23]

Oh yes, of course, I didn't realize it. [emoji23]
And considering that Zhenya's surname means bear, it's actually quite fitting.

Flanker's honey. Hm, sounds good!

 

[Fluture]

“She who must not be named“? It‘s getting better and better.

No, seriously, I feel like this whole “trolling“ has left me confused.. :noshake: Why shall this mysterious girl remain nameless? Who is she and what have I missed?

 

[Vandevska]

Oh yes, of course, I didn't realize it. [emoji23]
And considering that Zhenya's surname means bear, it's actually quite fitting.

Flanker's honey. Hm, sounds good!

The secret is out