2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 239 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

I think we should just start to call “Zag“ and “Med“ ”that one skater person who won the gold/silver in that mildly important competition somewhere in Asia“ :laugh2:

I thought we did??? I prefer Zag to Med but I don't use the shortened names out of disrespect. Sometimes spellcheck doesn't correct and it's just easier.
 
I'm pretty surprised that so many here think Alysa Liu will have a significant chance of playing spoiler for Russian dominance this year.

While I think she's likely to be favored at the American JGP event, otherwise I do not think the judges will be so kind. Her jumps are consistent but also small and at big risk of UR, and her skating is slow with pretty weak SS. The Russian juniors will outclass her in basically every way at this point. And I'm not trying to be negative about Alysa - I'm generally a US lady fan! But just being realistic - she has a lot of development to do. She's version 1.0 of US "wunderkind girl", and the Russian ladies are on version 5.0 of their own wunderkind girls. They're leagues ahead of her.

I won't be surprised if she wins gold in her first JGP, but I think she will have a hard time placing higher than third at any other JGP event. But it will be interesting to see how JGP assignments pan out on both sides.

For me i just think all these things are planned in advance:

The fact US hosts a JGP event (when we saw for years USFSA kinda snubbing junior grand prix), and it's very early in the season, the way US Nationals went, already giving her the senior title, with those huge scores,... It's like they gave her a reputation before they even let her competing at the first international event, so it's quite obvious the level of push behind.

Don't get me wrong, i think Russia might do the same with Valieva at JGP Chelyabinsk even though they have less reasons to push it that way because ladies are already very successful.

If we take all these discussions aside and just talk about skating: Alysa is a great spinner, her skating skills are not the best but enough for juniors, she has nice performance qualities, great charisma she shows especially in the short, the planned contents for the free skate are very ambitious.

That said if we look at the execution of these elements: 3ltz-3t was underrotated every time i saw it, and so are the quads and other triples, while 3A is sometimes UR, but i can see some judge may give it to her depending on the landing. Speed in general and particularly going into the jumps is lacking, she is very slow and there is also a clear lack of transitions.

Great talent but like you said more a diamond in the rough for now.

I think the difference in speed, execution, skating skills, transitions and maturity (interpretation/performance), with Tarakanova will be clear if they both skate clean, but it's all up to judges on how to mark that.
 
Maybe? Who knows. I don't want to say that Eteri's new crop of juniors are weaker than Alyona, Anna, and Sasha, especially since Kamila and Kanysheva are quite strong, but I don't think Usacheva and Khromykh have necessarily proven themselves yet. The field at JGP Courchevel is noticeably weaker than JGP Lake Placid, at least I think, so I think it'll be easier for Kanysheva and Usacheva to go 1-2 there, even with Usacheva's inconsistency.

I'm waiting for the test skates and then JGP to start making judgements concerning Usacheva and Khromykh. I remember how surprised I was in 2017 about Alena K.

Her evolution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8fb6evwbA - Alena Kostornaya FP from 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_sLFc_q_9A - Alena Kostornaya FP from 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTv9a_16Hm0 - Alena Kostornaya FP from 2017 ( rus nats)

and her first competition from that season, 30 august 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNpyjicfljE

^This is the competition she won and then get the spot at JGP :)
 
For me i just think all these things are planned in advance:

The fact US hosts a JGP event (when we saw for years USFSA kinda snubbing junior grand prix), and it's very early in the season, the way US Nationals went, already giving her the senior title, with those huge scores,... It's like they gave her a reputation before they even let her competing at the first international event, so it's quite obvious the level of push behind.

If we take all these discussions aside and just talk about skating: Alysa is a great spinner, her skating skills are not the best but enough for juniors, she has nice performance qualities, the planned contents especially for the free skate are very ambitious.

That said if we look at the execution of these elements: 3ltz-3t was underrotated every time i saw it, and so are the quads and other triples, while 3A is sometimes UR, but i can see some judge may give it to her. Speed in general and particularly going into the jumps is lacking, she is very slow and there is also a clear lack of transitions.

Great talent but like you said more a diamond in the rough for now.

I think the difference in speed, execution, skating skills, transitions and maturity (interpretation/performance), with Tarakanova will be clear if they both skate clean, but it's all up to judges on how to mark that.

Good point, I think USFS will be backing Alysa at least at her junior international debut, they kinda have to, she’s a senior national champion after all.
So Tarakanova losing to her won’t come completely out of nowhere to me.

I think, since juniors also have required jumps, this can often disadvantage skaters who tend to have problems from time to time. If they miss a jump in a combo, there’s no way to put it next to a second jump.
Tarakanova, if I remember correctly, had some problems with combos in her jgp stage last year.
She either missed a second jump, or doubled it in the short.
If Alysa lands 2A, 3A-3T and 3Lo clean, and Tarakanova has some mishap in her short, the difference might be simply insurmountable.
 
“She who must not be named“? It‘s getting better and better. :laugh:

No, seriously, I feel like this whole “trolling“ has left me confused.. :noshake: Why shall this mysterious girl remain nameless? Who is she and what have I missed?
Lollllllllllllll! Being mysterious is the Russian way even though I'm not Russian. ;)
 
I thought we did??? I prefer Zag to Med but I don't use the shortened names out of disrespect. Sometimes spellcheck doesn't correct and it's just easier.

Legendary journalist hack Christine Brennan had those nicknames for Evgenia during the last Olympics and it bothered me because I thought it was disrespectful.
 
Legendary journalist hack Christine Brennan had those nicknames for Evgenia during the last Olympics and it bothered me because I thought it was disrespectful.

Why? doesn't sound rude to me. Alyona sometimes called herself Kostorka too for example, there's nothing offensive in that to my ears (EDIT: and I'm a native russian speaker). :)
Russian Alina fans quite often call Alina Zagi too. Evgenia also seems to use Medo herself, her saved stories are called Medo-something I think.
 
Why? doesn't sound rude to me. Alyona sometimes called herself Kostorka too for example, there's nothing offensive in that to my russian speaking ears.
Russian Alina fans quite often call Alina Zagi too. Evgenia also seems to use Medo herself, her saved stories are called Medo-something I think.

Some ears :clap:
 
Legendary journalist hack Christine Brennan had those nicknames for Evgenia during the last Olympics and it bothered me because I thought it was disrespectful.

Well, of course. She's a JOURNALIST. Her doing that is lazy and unprofessional. But we're online and we probably type names of skaters at least 20 times a day, if not more, depending on your posting frequency. Definitely online it was just much easier to just type LIP, SOT, TUK, ZAG, MED. There is no disrespect when I type that, because much of the time I'm using my iPhone, so PLEASE don't make me try to spell out the names and even worse without good spellcheck when I can't even see if I've typed it correctly in the first place!!
 
You still got involved. I don't mind it when people express their opinion here even if they don't like Evgenia, but you can't keep crying if someone says something about Alina. What you feel is being done to Alina here is what I feel is being done to Evgenia here.

People's impressions are subjective and selective. Incl. mine, of course, but at least I don't start such things.
 
I thought we did??? I prefer Zag to Med but I don't use the shortened names out of disrespect. Sometimes spellcheck doesn't correct and it's just easier.

People used those acronyms pretty often and I don't remember this was an issue ever (or maybe I just didn't pay any attention because I did not consider it worth of attention), yet it somehow is a problem when I am blamed for doing it, while I did not :shrug:
 
Friendly all over. That was an appreciation of your wit. You're welcome.

It wasn't a wit, I just didn't pay too much attention when I was writing that phrase quite honestly :biggrin::laugh:
Even though I've been speaking english on everyday basis for a big part of my life now, I still use weird phrases from time to time :laugh:
 
I think the difference in speed, execution, skating skills, transitions and maturity (interpretation/performance), with Tarakanova will be clear if they both skate clean, but it's all up to judges on how to mark that.

It reminds me of Tara Lipinski when she was 13-14. Landing all her tiny jumps consistently, but like a million crossovers to get across the ice. She wasn't comparable to the more mature and stronger skaters. It is probably something you just have to see live to see how striking a Tarakanova versus Liu skating is. The judges will have a dilemma, whether to go with tiny jumps with 3a and 4Z, or just a skater with huge jumps, speed, ice coverage, etc. I wish I could go to Lake Placid but I'm going to be in NY a few weeks later and I just can't justify two trips to NY that close together. If the RFed wants to give the judges the "Anti-Alysa" to judge in a competition, Tarakanova is probably their best bet. She is mostly consistent and when she's on, she's VERRRRRY awesome.

I have rewatched her SRN LP so many times. SO strong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Ww7jFJgeI&t=277s
She definitely needs more refinement, get control of her flailing arms, and Panova is very good with that. But the ingredients are all there for success.
 
Well, of course. She's a JOURNALIST. Her doing that is lazy and unprofessional. But we're online and we probably type names of skaters at least 20 times a day, if not more, depending on your posting frequency. Definitely online it was just much easier to just type LIP, SOT, TUK, ZAG, MED. There is no disrespect when I type that, because much of the time I'm using my iPhone, so PLEASE don't make me try to spell out the names and even worse without good spellcheck when I can't even see if I've typed it correctly in the first place!!

It's good we don't have too many Annas, imagine spelling Shcherbakova every single time :biggrin:
 
I wouldn‘t say I completely agree with this. Aliona is better than most of them but I think we shouldn‘t forget Nastya Tarakanova. I know she‘s kind of going through a difficult time with all the coaching changes and while she‘s not as refined and elegant as Aliona, she‘s faster than her and her edgework is of the same quality. So, I‘d put them on the same level, if not even Tarakanova a bit ahead. Kanysheva also has nice edges but she‘s a bit slow. I haven‘t watched Sinitsyna often enough but from what I remembered, she had pretty good skating skills too. Panova seems to do something right here, it seems. But yeah, overall, Tarakanova and Kostornaya clearly on top.

As for Aliona vs. Evgenia, I think that‘s fair to say. Evgenia has put in some real work on improving her skating skills with Tracy but her edges aren‘t as deep as Aliona‘s and she‘s also slower. So, yes. I agree. Personally, for me performance is the aspect where Aliona can improve because while she‘s a very musical skater she isn‘t as emotive yet and her facial expression doesn‘t change at all throughout the program. I‘d say Alina but especially Evgenia who‘s known for emotional performances (miming, anyone? ;) ) are ahead of her in this aspect. Aliona definitely does beat both for me in the transitions part, though, at least with the way their programs were constructed last year. Evgenia basically had a lack of transitions so that‘s not comparable anyway and while Alina does dozens of them, I feel like Aliona‘s are better executed. They look easier and cleaner and not as rushed. It will be interesting to see how their programs will look like this season because Evgenia CAN add some transitions and Alina CAN perform hers better if Daniil allows her to breathe a bit and hold her moves. So, as for now I put Aliona ahead of Evgenia in the skating skills and transitions category while Evgenia beats her in performance. They‘re about even in interpretation even though I would put Evgenia slightly ahead here but that‘s pretty subjective in this case and it‘s also a small margin. As for Aliona and Alina, Aliona wins again in skating skills and transitions and also slightly in interpretation because I feel like she interprets the music with her body better than Alina does. Alina is ahead of her in performance, though because while she‘s not the most emotional skater, she can show a bit more variety than Aliona did so far.

I really tried to be fair and objective here but I guess everyone will be a bit biased for their favorites in something like PCS that‘s not as clear cut as - let‘s say whether a jump should get positive or negative GOE. (And even that‘s quite the challenge sometimes lol)

Yup. I agree with most of this. And I forgot to mention Tarakanova, who I think has better skatings skills than Alena as well.

Interpretation wise, though, I think The other 3A, Alina, and Evgenia are ahead of Alena. I just don't find her very musical. There was a post on the choreography thread that mentions this, that she doesn't seem to be responding to music and misses cues. And I've tried to mute the skate, play the music from any of her previous seasons, and it looks the same. It's elegant but not musical. I actually think Sasha is quite musical, she's just powerful and not graceful. For example, I think she embodied the choreography parts of Leeloo very well. And I think Alina is a natural performer as well, it's just more subtle and natural.
 
I agree. I’ve never quite got the big thing with Aliona’s artistry because I can’t engage that much with her performances and she isn’t passionate or emotional like Anna. I enjoy the aesthetics of her skating skills and positions very much and she has nice musicality but the only time I’ve seen a hint of expression is in the second half of her angel SP and vampire ex. I don’t think she realises how to interpret calm classical music yet...I always feel like a terrible person for thinking that and feel like the only one in the world who thinks that [emoji23]

I agree with this post and colormyworld's. Aliona has many great qualities: sublime skating skills, probably the best posture of all current (and possibly past skaters), an innate elegance. Out of the 3A, she was the first one to catch my eye. However, as I watched more of her performances and compared her to Anna and Sasha, I realized Aliona seems somewhat flat in her interpretation, kind of like an ice queen. When I watch Anna, I see much more emotion and warmth in her skating. It may be due to Aliona's music- I think her modern-ish lyrical pieces have become rather one note, and I hope she will get more varied pieces of music to interpret. I think the Eyes on Fire piece has great potential and I look forward to seeing her artistry/interpretation grow with it.
 
Why? doesn't sound rude to me. Alyona sometimes called herself Kostorka too for example, there's nothing offensive in that to my ears (EDIT: and I'm a native russian speaker). :)
Russian Alina fans quite often call Alina Zagi too. Evgenia also seems to use Medo herself, her saved stories are called Medo-something I think.

It was nothing but condescending from Christine Brennan because she doesn't like Russia or Russian figure skating. Everything she writes as politically motivated. She is a well-known journalist and should not be referring to athletes as nicknames. If fans want to do that that's their business but they're fans not well-known journalists.
 
It was nothing but condescending from Christine Brennan because she doesn't like Russia or Russian figure skating. Everything she writes as politically motivated. She is a well-known journalist and should not be referring to athletes as nicknames. If fans want to do that that's their business but they're fans not well-known journalists.

Agree- it totally depends on the context, and from what I remember, she was not being a fan of either "Med" or "Zag" when she referred to them that way. I think nicknames are fine for fans. It's usually easy to tell who is a fan, and who is being condescending/belittling.
 
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