2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[ec00834]

Still doesn‘t explain why they chose Daria out of all junior skaters. They could have taken Kamila as an example, whose program was much more busy than Daria‘s. But I haven‘t seen the post in question because it says it‘s blocked in my country so I only heard about the comparison of Daria and McDonalds which sounded... well, more than weird to me. (And it would have with every skater as well, not only Daria obviously) I don’t know what the actual tone was and what they wanted to express.

"Today’s Rant. This skater is very lovely; however, yet again, her coaches are cramming in steps that have little to do with the music. Look at the lovely back spiral she does into the double axel. The entrance into the jump is performed well and the jump itself is high and secure. After the jump, she rushes two potential moments and creates feeling during neither the landing position nor the forward spiral. Would it kill them to let her hold either movement?

Some choreographers don’t play the music and explore during the choreography phase. This looks like a set of steps and transitions that were set and then music was placed over it.
Some will argue that she needs transitions; however, she already does have a difficult entry into the double axel. If I were judging, I would award more points for the axel if she had a prettier air position with her legs (she wraps slightly) and held the landing. To me, that would be closer to a +4 or +5.
I would be willing to explore an 8 in transitions for a skater who held movements, executed them cleanly and with quality, and didn’t just try to cram as many in as possible. Paying attention to the music would also help.
Also, how anyone thinks Je Suis Malade is appropriate for such a young girl begs some serious questions.
This is the skating equivalent of McDonald’s. It checks the boxes as food. There is a lot of it. The product is produced quickly. It satisfies you in the moment. And later on, it just leaves you with indigestion. "

I personally think the transitions she does into and out of the 2A are perfect the way they are but again everyone has their own opinions

 

[Fluture]

I don’t think they are comparing HER to McDonalds but rather the programs. They are formulaic and designed around checking off boxes in the point system.

But that’s really not the teams fault - why wouldn’t they design programs that get the most points? Yes, I would absolutely prefer Alina hold her Ina Bauer longer. It would make a better artistic program but at the end of the day you play by the rules of the system to get the most points not to please fans. The system needs to find a way to reward holding poses for artistic value.

Ah, thanks, that explains it, I guess.

I do agree that the ISU should start to look more at quality r.e transitions. The ideal case would be to have many transitions and still execute them well. Only then you can earn maximum points on the transitions score. It‘s not about hating programs with many transitions, the sport has evolved and programs with a total lack of transitions would be considered boring by today‘s standards. What it‘s about is that you can make a program that has a lot of transitions and still make those transitions count and then execute them well. And time them well too, so they actually go with the music.

I‘m sure Daniil and Eteri could and would choreograph such programs if the judging system was rewarding and looking for it. But it doesn‘t and this way I can understand them. It‘s the same as it was with backloading. They‘re clever and they know how to pack their programs to get maximum points. And their girls do it because they can and they want to win. They’re producing champions so why would they stop? In the end, they live on the ice, they live for skating. So, if they find a way to stand out and win, they’ll use it. It‘s not their problem not everyone else is doing it.

I guess I‘ll try to blame it on the judging system the next time I see something like this that almost makes me want to cry.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B006UfJHm66/?igshid=1g4vihf86bekb

 

[Fluture]

"Today’s Rant. This skater is very lovely; however, yet again, her coaches are cramming in steps that have little to do with the music. Look at the lovely back spiral she does into the double axel. The entrance into the jump is performed well and the jump itself is high and secure. After the jump, she rushes two potential moments and creates feeling during neither the landing position nor the forward spiral. Would it kill them to let her hold either movement?

Some choreographers don’t play the music and explore during the choreography phase. This looks like a set of steps and transitions that were set and then music was placed over it.
Some will argue that she needs transitions; however, she already does have a difficult entry into the double axel. If I were judging, I would award more points for the axel if she had a prettier air position with her legs (she wraps slightly) and held the landing. To me, that would be closer to a +4 or +5.
I would be willing to explore an 8 in transitions for a skater who held movements, executed them cleanly and with quality, and didn’t just try to cram as many in as possible. Paying attention to the music would also help.
Also, how anyone thinks Je Suis Malade is appropriate for such a young girl begs some serious questions.
This is the skating equivalent of McDonald’s. It checks the boxes as food. There is a lot of it. The product is produced quickly. It satisfies you in the moment. And later on, it just leaves you with indigestion. "

I personally think the transitions she does into and out of the 2A are perfect the way they are but again everyone has their own opinions

Hm. The McDonalds comment was over the top and unnecessary (usual TSL style) but other than that the arguments don‘t sound too unreasonable. Surprising. I‘ll have to watch the program again as I don‘t exactly remember this particular transition they‘re talking about, though. But when I watched Daria‘s program yesterday I felt like the amount of transitions and the way they were executed was pretty good.

 

[Elucidus]

It gets easier for me only by the end of the season, by the end of the season I (do it) calmly

Good translation. However it lost some semantic nuances. For example Valieva said спокойненько (spokoinen'ko) - which is diminutive form of "calmly" and it would be more closer to translate as "by the end of the season I already.. so little calmly-gradually (?)". I know it can't said like this in English so it's not your fault since it's impossible to translate. Still I wanted to point it out since it gives her line somewhat plaintive and at the same time soothing tone - which can't be interpreted with just "calmly" word. Pecularities of a Russian language

 

[vesperalvioletta]

I‘m not a particular fan of Daria‘s programs as the music choices seem too heavy for a thirteen year old (hasn‘t Kostornaya said she wanted to skate to Lara Fabian but she‘s not ready/mature enough yet? Makes one wonder how Daria who‘s three years younger suddenly is but not the point here) but she was one of the few who actually tried to hold her positions longer and express the music with her body. And sure, the programs were still 100% Eteri style with all those transitions but I really didn‘t mind, I actually quite enjoyed her FS, despite the fall and despite the music I found that wasn‘t the best fit for her. So, I really don‘t get why they‘d take Daria as an example.

I for one am really looking forward to seeing her and Kanysheva at the first JGP.

Kostornaya wants to skate to Edith Piaf, but her team told her she wasn't mature enough yet. I wonder if they're trying to avoid comparison to Kaetlyn Osmond? I just can't think of another reason that makes sense given Daria's program this season.

 

[Fluture]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B04e0t3HFSH/?igshid=1h2d3y1o0a9td

3Lo in the SP by all ladies at test skates. Who‘s your favourite? I liked Kamila‘s, Kanysheva‘s and Ksenia‘s here.

And I still don‘t get why they have to use it as a solo jump. It‘s so important for skaters to learn how to think on their feet and include a combo later on when the first jump was off but somehow they aren‘t allowed to practice that in juniors. If it is to show control over that jump, wouldn‘t it show even more control to jump it in a combo? I mean, I can understand the requirements of a specific jump each season but I don‘t get why they can‘t jump it as the first part of a combination. Imo, it would teach them more than missing the combo and losing focus during the rest of the program because they know they have no way of making it up. But that‘s... rules again.

Kostornaya wants to skate to Edith Piaf, but her team told her she wasn't mature enough yet. I wonder if they're trying to avoid comparison to Kaetlyn Osmond? I just can't think of another reason that makes sense given Daria's program this season.

Oh, I‘d remembered that wrongly then, thanks for clearing it up. However, I‘m not so sure Team Tutberidze would care about Osmond, to be honest. She‘s already retired, so why should it be a problem to use the same music? I can‘t think of a reason either, though.

 

[Scott512]

Still doesn‘t explain why they chose Daria out of all junior skaters. They could have taken Kamila as an example, whose program was much more busy than Daria‘s. But I haven‘t seen the post in question because it says it‘s blocked in my country so I only heard about the comparison of Daria and McDonalds which sounded... well, more than weird to me. (And it would have with every skater as well, not only Daria obviously) I don’t know what the actual tone was and what they wanted to express.

They would never choose Kamila because she is the clear Heir Apparent to 3A. Yes the McDonald's correlation sounded weird to me too. But that's just those guys trying to create clicks and drama I suppose.

 

[Elucidus]

For those criticizing Kamila's FP as "too busy" or "past the music" etc. - here is huge article about FP musical accents justifying each Kamila movement there https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/skatingmuesli/2535075.html (you can google translate it).

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Ah, thanks, that explains it, I guess.

I do agree that the ISU should start to look more at quality r.e transitions. The ideal case would be to have many transitions and still execute them well. Only then you can earn maximum points on the transitions score. It‘s not about hating programs with many transitions, the sport has evolved and programs with a total lack of transitions would be considered boring by today‘s standards. What it‘s about is that you can make a program that has a lot of transitions and still make those transitions count and then execute them well. And time them well too, so they actually go with the music.

You know, what you are talking about already exists in ISU judging system, because judges gave Caro for her 2018 worlds SP performance 9.5 for transitions, while Alina for example got 9. So, everything people are saying on that or similar topics is only their iternal wish to express a critique/to criticize (based on their personal preferences) and nothing more. Which is in that (TSL) case (youve been talking about previously) a definition of a closed-minded comments, i would say. And commentating about skating in my opinion is asking for opposite of that - to be open-minded at first.

 

[nussnacker]

Hm. The McDonalds comment was over the top and unnecessary (usual TSL style) but other than that the arguments don‘t sound too unreasonable. Surprising. I‘ll have to watch the program again as I don‘t exactly remember this particular transition they‘re talking about, though. But when I watched Daria‘s program yesterday I felt like the amount of transitions and the way they were executed was pretty good.

I think Dave just doesn’t have any filter... (meaning he’s too blunt - that’s as far as I can go without getting a warning lol)
I think TMZ style comments of poor taste and discussing rumors/drama hunt, I can call it okay for Hollywood, I mean A star celebrities would probably never notice some strange Instagram post.

Figure skating world is so small, and of course all these kids will find out what he’s taking about... she’s hashtagged there, so it won’t take 2 seconds to use automatic translation feature and see what’s written about her.

And in case she sees that her program is called McDonalds, will she understand that „he’s wishing the best for her“ or just get very upset and self conscious? She’s only 13, come on, is it really that hard to be slightly nicer to a 13 year old?

Having Liza Tuktik and Polina Edmunds express their opinions about TSL commentary apparently wasn’t enough to slow down a little...
I mean, he recently completely laughed off the fact that he said Alina‘s named after Putin‘s mistress. The fact, that he doesn’t think it’s not okay to talk about a teen like that just tells me something about his thinking.

I just wish he understood that what he’s putting out has a lot of negative tones and that he’s doing that in the sport that has a lot of kids in it.

 

[andromache]

All of these kids should stay off of social media. At least TSL is not in the Russian media (or at least it shouldn’t be), so these young girls shouldn’t hear about it. I’m sure there are nasty Russian comments as well, so I would be more worried about those (especially since there are probably more skating critics in Russia than in the US, since the sport is more popular there).

Unfortunately, part of the problem with children as athletes at an elite level means they will also get elite level criticism/negativity. Adults are expected to handle it. Children shouldn’t have to - but they are elite athletes, so it’s difficult.

 

[neud]

I bet Lease didn't even watch Usacheva's program before reposting someone's stupid rant because he thinks he doesn't need to watch DG's programs to make his judgement.

 

[neud]

theskatinglesson went off the rails -

What are the fundamental differences between Shcherbakova, Usacheva, Valieva, Kanysheva, Akatyeva, Zagitova, Tursynbaeva, etc? They are all mostly the same with 1-2 highlight moves. Their personalities on the ice are largely the same. There is little to no individuality.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B03J1NeHxsE/

 

[readernick]

All of these kids should stay off of social media. At least TSL is not in the Russian media (or at least it shouldn’t be), so these young girls shouldn’t hear about it. I’m sure there are nasty Russian comments as well, so I would be more worried about those (especially since there are probably more skating critics in Russia than in the US, since the sport is more popular there).

Unfortunately, part of the problem with children as athletes at an elite level means they will also get elite level criticism/negativity. Adults are expected to handle it. Children shouldn’t have to - but they are elite athletes, so it’s difficult.

This criticism, unlike some cruel criticism which we see even on this site, is directed not toward the girls who are amazing, talented, and hardworking but toward their choreographer. He is an adult. He also, based on interviews I have read, has a very high opinion of himself and, in my opinion, mediocre choreographic talent. I am sure he can handle a bit of criticism. Some people on this site are more than willing to bash teenage girls but can't handle the slightest criticism of any member of the Eteri team. They are the ones who need to get their priorites straight.

TSL is catty but Daniil is an adult. He should be able to handle it.

 

[neud]

Gleikhengauz's programs won Olympics, GP, World, European, Russian Championships, JGP, World and Russian Junior Championships golden medals. And silver medals. I don't understand why some people who are literally nobody in the figure skating world decided that they are entitled to teach DG how he should do his job.

 

[Edwin]

Half of the interview is dedicated to a claim that most of junior ladies ISU judge saw at test skates have more mature and better skating than senior ladies - even in PCS department - and you not even mentioned it? Well, ok

Kuznetsov didn't seem very comfortable being interviewed and he wanders a bit in his explanations. I need to save the video along with the auto generated Russian subtitles (which are quite accurate I've found) to comprehend the whole interview.
After listening to it, it wasn't that interesting to me. Since he is Russian evaluating Russian young skaters, I thought he was a bit chauvinistic in his praise.
Since neither English nor Russian are my first language, I'll need several roll throughs of that interview to make more sense of it.

The part about internet making everything so accessible to skaters, judges and choreographers struck me. Now who learns the most from whom in this Russia vs The World?

 

[Georgya]

theskatinglesson went off the rails -

https://www.instagram.com/p/B03J1NeHxsE/

Disgusting comment. I think this is one reason why so many russian girls like competing in Japan or Europe, but NOT in the USA.

 

[Caustica]

theskatinglesson went off the rails -

https://www.instagram.com/p/B03J1NeHxsE/

I can't see this particular comment anywhere, but if they really did post it, then that's just really rude. Their original post was provocative but at least there were some tangible points they were making. This is merely rude and no better than internet trolling.

 

[Georgya]

Gleikhengauz's programs won Olympics, GP, World, European, Russian Championships, JGP, World and Russian Junior Championships golden medals. And silver medals. I don't understand why some people who are literally nobody in the figure skating world decided that they are entitled to teach DG how he should do his job.

They are going for clicks on social media, hits on their youtube videos by stealing from the russian girls popularity. They are nobodies and deliberately are being offensive in order to create controversy. And eventually to make a image for themselves, to get a voice in the figure skating world and opportunity for money.

 

[flanker]

This criticism, unlike some cruel criticism which we see even on this site, is directed not toward the girls who are amazing, talented, and hardworking but toward their choreographer. He is an adult. He also, based on interviews I have read, has a very high opinion of himself and, in my opinion, mediocre choreographic talent. I am sure he can handle a bit of criticism. Some people on this site are more than willing to bash teenage girls but can't handle the slightest criticism of any member of the Eteri team. They are the ones who need to get their priorites straight.

TSL is catty but Daniil is an adult. He should be able to handle it.

TSL's criticism was always very adressed towards both teams and skaters themselves, the example about Alina's name should tell you that their impudence knows no limits.

As for individuality of the programs - well, I will make some blasphemy here. I am willing to admit that some of the Daniiil's choreos are not as unique as the others, which, in the amount of work is quite understandable for me, as he is one man and has to make some 50 choreos per season.

On the other hand, when I looked at the programs of japanese ladies of the last season, I read the names that are frequently repeated by some fans that they should do choreos for russian and esp. Eteri's girls: Benoît Richaud, Tom Dickson, Shae-Lynn Bourne, David Wilson. Despite several names, those are the programs that look like done by one person to me, by one matrix with the similar music choices, at least most of them. I'm not saying they are bad, I'm just saying that if Daniil is repeatedly attacked for repeating some schemes, I see that those numerous choreographers do the same, during 2018/2019 season with e. g. Rika and Kaori it was all the same look I'm privately calling "ode to a cherry blossom that came into flower in my secret garden during moonlit night".