2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Edwin]

RIka and Kaori it was all the same look I'm privately calling "ode to a cherry blossom that came into flower in my secret garden during moonlit night".

naughty, naughty ;-)

What is wrong with original Japanese choreography? No perceived appeal to the 'western audience and judges'? These choreographer mentioned do need to make a living, and once the idea has settled in their work is tops, they are guaranteed commissions, until they start picking strange fruits ...

I wonder about TSL's take on this: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?81749-Strange-Fruit-Inappropriate-for-Skating, but perhaps it's best not to know.

 

[readernick]

TSL's criticism was always very adressed towards both teams and skaters themselves, the example about Alina's name should tell you that their impudence knows no limits.

As for individuality of the programs - well, I will make some blasphemy here. I am willing to admit that some of the Daniiil's choreos are not as unique as the others, which, in the amount of work is quite understandable for me, as he is one man and has to make some 50 choreos per season.

On the other hand, when I looked at the programs of japanese ladies of the last season, I read the names that are frequently repeated by some fand that they should do choreos for russian and esp. Eteri's girls: Benoît Richaud, Tom Dickson, Shae-Lynn Bourne, David Wilson. Despite several names, those are the programs that looks like done by one person to me, by one matrix with the similar musich choices, at least most of them. I'm not saying they are bad, I'm just saying that if Daniil is repeatedly attacked for repeating some schemes, I see that those numerous choreographers do the same, during 2018/2019 season with e. g. Rika and Kaori it was all the same look I'm privately calling "ode to a cherry blossom that came into flower in my secret garden during moonlit night".

You are entitled to your opinion. I find Daniil to be a mediocre choreographer who repeats the same essential program over and over. I have enjoyed only three of the programs he has produced. ( Aliona's SPs the last two seasons and Anna's sp last year).
If you think he is a great choreographer, Great! Enjoy his programs. But, I respectfully don't agree and I have that right.

I do not see any similarity between the choreography of Benoit, David Wilson ,Shae-lynne Bourne, and Tom Dickson. The movement, musical styles and themes are wildly different in each case. Personally, I love Tom Dickson and Shae-lynne Bourne. They use interesting music and use new unique movements.Shae-lynne brings dance to figure skating and Tom Dickson always has an artsy abstract idea behind each piece of choreography. I find David Wilson's choreography old fashioned and only suitable for a certain type of skater. Benoit does more "modern" angular choreography. It is unique to him but I don't enjoy watching most of his programs. However, you are entitled to your opinion of their choreography. If you think it all looks the same, fine! Personally, I just think people need to be more accepting of critcism and not overreact when their favorite is criticized. If you produce art, of any kind, you will receive criticism.

I do agree, however, that TSL should be more clear in separating their criticism of the choreography from the skater. A young skater could be very hurt by such criticism .

 

[flanker]

You are entitled to your opinion. I find Daniil to be a mediocre choreographer who repeats the same essential program over and over. I have enjoyed only three of the programs he has produced. ( Aliona's SPs the last two seasons and Anna's sp last year).
If you think he is a great choreographer, Great! Enjoy his programs. But, I respectfully don't agree and I have that right.

I do not see any similarity between the choreography of Benoit, David Wilson ,Shae-lynne Bourne, and Tom Dickson. The movement, musical styles and themes are wildly different in each case. Personally, I love Tom Dickson and Shae-lynne Bourne. They use interesting music and use new unique movements.Shae-lynne brings dance to figure skating and Tom Dickson always has an artsy abstract idea behind each piece of choreography. I find David Wilson's choreography old fashioned and only suitable for a certain type of skater. Benoit does more "modern" angular choreography. It is unique to him but I don't enjoy watching most of his programs. However, you are entitled to your opinion of their choreography. If you think it all looks the same, fine! Personally, I just think people need to be more accepting of critcism and not overreact when their favorite is criticized. If you produce art, of any kind, you will receive criticism.

I do agree, however, that TSL should be more clear in separating their criticism of the choreography from the skater. A young skater could be very hurt by such criticism .

First, I didn't use any superlatives about Daniil in my comment. What I think of him has no relevance to the core of my comment. He has his highlights and average work, as anybody else. Second, why always when someone disagrees with some comment, the person who is disagreed with comes with "it is my right for an opinion". It is everybody's right to disagree, on the very same right I disagreed with you in the first place, I just don't think I have to make such disclaimer everytime I express my disagreement. The fact I express a disagreement with someone doesn't take anybody's right to have his opinion, it is just what it is, a disagreement and expressing my own view.

So, now I say that when someone repeatedly attacks saters personally (and not only Eteri's girls, it is not so long ago when TSL nearly united Alina's and Zhenya's fans against the common enemy - Judean People's Front - by making nasty comments about both of them ), than it is hard to have any credibility in your comments. When TSL guys are repeatedly blending critics of techique, choreo or whatever with nasty personal attacks and allusions, they don't have any credit for making any relevant comments about figure skating. I found your original statement

"This criticism, unlike some cruel criticism which we see even on this site, is directed not toward the girls who are amazing, talented, and hardworking but toward their choreographer"

as worth replying, because it sounded like you are not aware of what those guys actually say, repeatedly. It's not just

"TSL should be more clear in separating their criticism of the choreography from the skater"

because I don't think there is any factual point in what they say.

 

[Edwin]

I think many of those freelance choreographers are envious of Gleikhengauz' position.

He is core member of #TeamTutberidzeForProgress and a great contributor to their success;
He gets to work with the best skaters from the nation, which does pose both a challenge, great responsibility and a huge workload;
There is always new talent to try his art on, choreographing for skaters male and female, young and old keeps you flexible;
His work is respected and praised by those that matter in business;
And he loves his job, saying at the Tutberidze Show of Champions it is an extraordinary pleasure.

Compare that to a freelancer hopping from commission to commission, with all economic insecurities, and often no real sense of fulfilment because time or money constraints?

If I'd be a young choreographer, I'll gladly be in Gleikhengauz' boots.

But perhaps in five or ten years time, Gleikhengauz might also want to work freelance, when he feels he has exhausted himself at Khrustalniy ...

 

[Vandevska]

Kamila (apparently asked why she's sad/disappointed):
well, I could've skater better, that's why
(in the changing room)
The last one(spin) yeah, it was okay, but the other two, especially the first one... I didn't do it at all.
It's just I skate normally on practices, and here I got nervous.
It gets easier for me only by the end of the season, by the end of the season I (do it) calmly

my note: this kid is so "Tutberidze" already, they all comment such minor things sometimes in nearly perfect routines. I didn't notice her spins were bad (were they?), but everyone from that team is such a perfectionist, so to her it will count as "I didn't do them at all".
And I hope she'll be able to fight her nervousness, but even being nervous she still delivered 2 amazing performances.

BTW, you can see Kamila walking beside her mom, and she's like... only 1 head above Kamila who's 150cm (4'11), I would suppose 160-165 tops?
But we haven't seen her dad yet [emoji3][emoji23]

Daria:
Jumps were clean, but stsq.. my twizzles were bad - on a straight leg and stiff,
I need (to do them) more softly, a little more relaxed, I was a little tense on the stsq. But aside from that - it's good.

Ksenia:
All's good. I wasn't really nervous, since it's only the beginning of the season and I will keep on working on my programs.

Viktoria:
Not good. My leg started aching yesterday and we didn't manage to ice it before the event. So now..

Nastia:
The short was good. We also have tomorrow.
I got a little bit sick before my skate, so I'm not in a perfect shape, I could've been in.
So I was very worried because of that.

Alyona:
I feel like I didn't skate as relaxed/free as I can during practices.
I think, let's say, I always had these problems, I can always get tense/tense up.
And because I tense up, I get tired easily because of this tension, and I need to do something about it.

Thanks for posting this

 

[Sugarpova]

Also, how anyone thinks Je Suis Malade is appropriate for such a young girl begs some serious questions.

ugh :dumb:

like being said upthread its OK to critise but it matters HOW you criticise. I long lost hope in TSL.
That all knowing & condescending attitude only makes me roll my eyes even if I may have agreed with essence of some comment.

 

[flanker]

I think many of those freelance choreographers are envious of Gleikhengauz' position.

He is core member of #TeamTutberidzeForProgress and a great contributor to their success;
He gets to work with the best skaters from the nation, which does pose both a challenge, great responsibility and a huge workload;
There is always new talent to try his art on, choreographing for skaters male and female, young and old keeps you flexible;
His work is respected and praised by those that matter in business;
And he loves his job, saying at the Tutberidze Show of Champions it is an extraordinary pleasure.

Compare that to a freelancer hopping from commission to commission, with all economic insecurities, and often no real sense of fulfilment because time or money given are exhausted?

If I'd be a young choreographer, I'll gladly wear Gleikhengauz' boots.

But perhaps in five or ten years time, Gleikhengauz might also want to work freelance, when he feels he has exhausted himself at Khrustalniy ...

Completely agree with this. It's not that there can't be objections to his work, nor him nor Eteri are holy, I just don't like when people are smashing the complete work as a whole. It always looks so funny. "Tutberidze's methods are questionable, Daniil is a mediocre choreographer, skaters are this or that", yet they are still occupying the highest ranks. I think they desere some credit even when people have objections. And no, "skaters are good (sounding like 'would be good under my preferred coach/choreographer') but the team is - whatever" is not a credit

 

[Scott512]

This criticism, unlike some cruel criticism which we see even on this site, is directed not toward the girls who are amazing, talented, and hardworking but toward their choreographer. He is an adult. He also, based on interviews I have read, has a very high opinion of himself and, in my opinion, mediocre choreographic talent. I am sure he can handle a bit of criticism. Some people on this site are more than willing to bash teenage girls but can't handle the slightest criticism of any member of the Eteri team. They are the ones who need to get their priorites straight.

TSL is catty but Daniil is an adult. He should be able to handle it.

TSL is indeed catty, douchey dishonest and diva like. It's really not debatable. It would be like taking the worst people from this forum to do their own YouTube skating show. Lol.

TSL trashing a 13 year old Russian girl is one thing but I'm especially interested to see how they handle the Alysa Liu situation and how they treat the great American ladies hope the next few years. But I won't be watching them I'll have to read about them on this forum and what stupid things that they continue to say.

Saying that Alina was named after Putin's mistress instead of being named after Alina Kabaeva Olympic gold medalist is being very catty, dishonest, douchey and diva like. There are actually people who follow them who no doubt do not know the cute backstory of Alina's name and how her parents waited until she was one-year-old to name her after an Olympic champion. And then 14 years later their daughter Alina became an Olympic champion. That is phenomenal.

Maybe TSL should do a live show remote from Sambo-70 in Moscow Russia. Hmmmm.

 

[Scott512]

First, I didn't use any superlatives about Daniil in my comment. What I think of him has no relevance to the core of my comment. He has his highlights and average work, as anybody else. Second, why always when someone disagrees with some comment, the person who is disagreed with comes with "it is my right for an opinion". It is everybody's right to disagree, on the very same right I disagreed with you in the first place, I just don't think I have to make such disclaimer everytime I express my disagreement. The fact I express a disagreement with someone doesn't take anybody's right to have his opinion, it is just what it is, a disagreement and expressing my own view.

So, now I say that when someone repeatedly attacks saters personally (and not only Eteri's girls, it is not so long ago when TSL nearly united Alina's and Zhenya's fans against the common enemy - Judean People's Front - by making nasty comments about both of them ), than it is hard to have any credibility in your comments. When TSL guys are repeatedly blending critics of techique, choreo or whatever with nasty personal attacks and allusions, they don't have any credit for making any relevant comments about figure skating. I found your original statement



as worth replying, because it sounded like you are not aware of what those guys actually say, repeatedly. It's not just



because I don't think there is any factual point in what they say.

Good points. Well said. Maybe your best point was how TSL it's not factual. That should be obvious to all of their audience at this point. They are like an opinion talk show.

 

[karina17]

TSL trashing a 13 year old Russian girl is one thing but I'm especially interested to see how they handle the Alysa Liu situation and how they treat the great American ladies hope the next few years. But I won't be watching them I'll have to read about them on this forum and what stupid things that they continue to say.

I watched some TSL videos the other day (don't judge, they might be catty and rude but they're still interesting to watch in a trainwreck-you-can't-look-away-from kind of way ), and I was really surprised to see how rude they were about Alysa, who despite all her flaws is very accomplished for a fourteen-year-old.

I can't remember exactly what they said, but they were extremely dismissive of all her skills (to be fair I could see where they were coming from, but there's really no call to be so harsh on a kid, the words they used to describe her were quite jarring to me and I do watch them fairly often, I think that they went quite far with Alysa).

I remember Lease saying something along the lines of "I don't think she'll beat Valieva, or any of the other Russians actually. Kanysheva, Usacheva..." and then they start talking about something else, but they clearly think quite lowly of Daria based on the McDonald's comment, so if they're sure Daria will beat Alysa then they clearly think very lowly of Alysa.

They were also very, very critical of Alysa's coaches' methods, more or less describing it as the budget, off-brand version of Eteri's methods.

I can't remember exact quotes, but generally their attitude to Alysa has been very rude and dismissive. Quite surprising considering she is American. Maybe they're not bitter against Russians specifically, they're bitter against children...maybe it's the middle-aged-people-who-aren't-doing-much-being-bitter-against-successful-younger-people trope.

(I started typing that as a joke but now that I'm done typing it...maybe it's got some accuracy to it? )

 

[JazzUp]

Maybe TSL should do a live show remote from Sambo-70 in Moscow Russia.

Sambo-70 management has a very strict policy against any trash on the premises.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

TSL is indeed catty, douchey dishonest and diva like. It's really not debatable. It would be like taking the worst people from this forum to do their own YouTube skating show. Lol.
.

Many posters in this thread have written much more horrible and disrespectful things about other skaters than TSL have ever uttered. So I don't get this fake outcry at two skating fans that just like to gossip with their viewers about skating, at least the guys from TSL don't take themselves seriously, unlike many posters here.

 

[nussnacker]

Many posters in this thread have written much more horrible and disrespectful things about other skaters than TSL have ever uttered. So I don't get this fake outcry at two skating fans that just like to gossip with their viewers about skating, at least the guys from TSL don't take themselves seriously, unlike many posters here.

No comment

 

[karina17]

Many posters in this thread have written much more horrible and disrespectful things about other skaters than TSL have ever uttered. So I don't get this fake outcry at two skating fans that just like to gossip with their viewers about skating, at least the guys from TSL don't take themselves seriously, unlike many posters here.

But just because we post on here/read the posts here doesn't mean we agree with every single other poster. Think about it, so much of this thread is just spent quarreling with other posters until the mods get tired of us.

It's not hypocritical to criticise what TSL says because it's not as if everyone supports every other poster on this thread. If other posters talk smack about skaters I will be disgusted, if TSL talks smack about skaters I will also be disgusted. It's not "fake outcry", I for one am genuinely annoyed that they run their mouths about kids with no remorse. What's more, they know full well that their viewers will comment harshly on the kids on their Instagram posts, and yet they continue to tag the kids in the posts so they will see those comments. (I don't know how fluent the kids are in English, but that is beside the point imo.)

 

[flanker]

Many posters in this thread have written much more horrible and disrespectful things about other skaters than TSL have ever uttered. So I don't get this fake outcry at two skating fans that just like to gossip with their viewers about skating, at least the guys from TSL don't take themselves seriously, unlike many posters here.

Well I do have a comment. People here like to go to the defence "it's my opinion, respect that". So, when you consider that the line "skater named after Putin's mistress" is just something two skating fans like to gossip about with their fans, it is of course your opinion, I respect that and nobody is allowed to take it away from you. To be honest, I doubt anybody would be willing to touch it even with the long pole.

 

[Scott512]

I watched some TSL videos the other day (don't judge, they might be catty and rude but they're still interesting to watch in a trainwreck-you-can't-look-away-from kind of way ), and I was really surprised to see how rude they were about Alysa, who despite all her flaws is very accomplished for a fourteen-year-old.

I can't remember exactly what they said, but they were extremely dismissive of all her skills (to be fair I could see where they were coming from, but there's really no call to be so harsh on a kid, the words they used to describe her were quite jarring to me and I do watch them fairly often, I think that they went quite far with Alysa).

I remember Lease saying something along the lines of "I don't think she'll beat Valieva, or any of the other Russians actually. Kanysheva, Usacheva..." and then they start talking about something else, but they clearly think quite lowly of Daria based on the McDonald's comment, so if they're sure Daria will beat Alysa then they clearly think very lowly of Alysa.

They were also very, very critical of Alysa's coaches' methods, more or less describing it as the budget, off-brand version of Eteri's methods.

I can't remember exact quotes, but generally their attitude to Alysa has been very rude and dismissive. Quite surprising considering she is American. Maybe they're not bitter against Russians specifically, they're bitter against children...maybe it's the middle-aged-people-who-aren't-doing-much-being-bitter-against-successful-younger-people trope.

(I started typing that as a joke but now that I'm done typing it...maybe it's got some accuracy to it? )

You have figured them out! I just hope you didn't have a headache after watching their segment of nonsense. Alysa Liu or any of the Russian girls that they have dumped on are already more successful than they have ever been. It's like the TSL crew is here to stir the pot and people fall for it every time they post videos.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

TSL is honestly, desperate for a scandal. I don't understand how they can call themselves skating fans and then whine about how nothing is like it was in the back in the 6.0 days. Like, get over it already, people. Michelle Kwan retired 13 years ago [emoji849]

 

[Scott512]

Many posters in this thread have written much more horrible and disrespectful things about other skaters than TSL have ever uttered. So I don't get this fake outcry at two skating fans that just like to gossip with their viewers about skating, at least the guys from TSL don't take themselves seriously, unlike many posters here.

I'm glad according to you Luna they don't take themselves seriously. But how could these guys take themselves seriously? Trust me they don't care if they get razzed or insulted on a message board. I'm sure they expect it and they pretty much ask for it with their demeanor and comments.

 

[Scott512]

Sambo-70 management has a very strict policy against any trash on the premises.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Could someone please explain the long program of Anna Frolova? I don’t understand; the beginning is a woman’s voice singing Ave Maria over and over, and the second part is this driving orchestra music that sounds familiar.