Plushenko Next Year | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Plushenko Next Year

You know I dont really like Plushenko but I like Joubert even less. Alot of our so called artistic skaters favorites like Lambiel, Buttle, even Takahashi, are just fluffcakes out there. Yeah their skating is nice but they dont have the competive hunger and mindset to go out there and skate perfectly with all the hard jumps each time. So there is no reason the judges or fans should keep waiting for those tempermental scatterbrain artists to come around. The winner will be a guy who goes out there and nails it, that is what Joubert does, and what Plushenko used to do.

So if it comes down to Plushenko or Joubert dominating I will take Plushenko. Atleast he doesnt have an ego the size of Mount Everest like Joubert, and other then that their style are similar but the Plushenko of old just did everything a bit better to Joubert who is a very similar type of skater. So if Plushenko's return means a return to Plushenko dominance, and an end to the Joubert dominance of the last season, welcome back Plushenko! :clap: :clap:

As for you scatterbrain artists like Lambiel and Takahashi, get your act together or you wont win big titles ever again. Dont grin like a goofball while missing all the jumps in the last minute of your program like scatterbrain Lambiel does at Worlds. To Lysacek, you are just a weaker and more annoying version of both Joubert and Plushenko, now that 2 better versions of you are back again for the first time in awhile, since 2005-2006 Joubert was not the real Joubert, and Plushenko was not there in 2007, sucks to be you all of a sudden dont it. To Buttle, you are a nice skater artistically and all but your jumps wont give you squat anymore, you did well to medal in big events in 2005 and 2006 with those pitiful jumps, cherish those days forever since they wont come again, unless you practice jumps with Stojko all day until you are black and blue and can nail a quad and triple axel over and over. To Oda, your boyish skating is not my cup of tea, but your quality jumps will serve you well, with your jump technique you should be able to add a quad, and if you do who knows what might happen, although you dont yet skate like a man style-wise the way Plushenko and Joubert do, even if their style isnt everyones favorite, and that will still hurt you probably.

To Verner, your Worlds showing was nice but you will need mega improvements in program and choreography to get that high again. Every Worlds wont be a splatfest for you to profit from in your final placing like this year. Atleast you are nailing quads and triple axels, unlike some of those scatterbrain artists. For that alone I wish you well.

For Sandhu and Weir, either totally renovate yourselves from scratch or go away and dont embarass yourselves by missing your own World teams next year. Especialy Sandhu, unless you are skating twice as well as this season you dont have a prayer of even making it to Worlds next year, Mabee is now kicking your rear all over the place, and with Sawyer, Chan, Reynolds all coming up, really sucks to be you.
 
temperboy - You are not alone in demanding Jumps as the only way to determine the winner of a competition. There are many fans out there that will go with the jumper (hope Joubert doesn't go into another 2 year slump for their sake.). There are some fans, however, who demand that skaters have a cohesive program to music included in the scoring.

For myself, I would like to see a jump competition for the best of any skater and forget about other elements. If one takes the cue from Diving, with 5 judges to score the various dives, it makes sense for skating judges to do the same. What is the point of having music get in the way when jumps are the whole criteria?

As for Takahashi and Lambiel, it's not quite understandable to put them in a lesser category than EP & BJ since both those skaters have consistent quads.

Joe
 
Jumps are not the only only determining factor, but they are still the bread and butter, the meat of competitive skating. That wont ever change. If you want to be taken seriously to win the biggest events you have to nail those jumps. Takahashi has taken large steps to that, but he still must skate clean short and free programs, adding a quad to the short, and a second one to the free. Lambiel was a mess with his jumps this season at Worlds, and even before he could barely do a triple axel to save his life, and his quad, triple lutz, triple flip, and triple loop are all hit-or-miss. His only consistent jumps are the triple sal and double axel, his jumping prowess falls short of Mao Asada or Miki Ando in some ways. Buttle is an even weaker jumper then Lambiel with the lamest quad attempts you will ever see, and a triple axel that is barely more there then Lambiel's, along with ability to miss any other triple jump.

Also it is possible the judges like the skating of Plushenko and Joubert other then their jumps more then alot of fans do. Aside from their jumps, they skate with command and conviction and presence, they have alot of power and speed, their basic skating and posture is excellent. Plushenko also has some incredible footwork. Some fans may believe they are just jumps, but obviously the judges dont feel that way, and fans just have to accept that fact.

Joesitz, are you suggesting they have a seperate competition just for jumps, and another for programs without jumps? If so I cant agree you can do that. Figure skating wants to be taken seriously as a sport at all, jumps are of upmost important to do that. Jumps should not be everything, but jumps still are the starting point to a skaters success, and for it to be taken seriously as a sport, even with all the beauty and creativity the sport can bring, that is how it must be.
 
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If jumps are the meat, bread, and butter of the program sandwich, what are spins, footwork, etc.? A sprinkling of herbs and spices?
 
temperboy - You tend to judge skaters on the last competition you saw, especially in their figure skating jumping skills. You don't look back on Joubert at Moscow Worlds or the ensuing GPs the next season. Do you? It's just his recent big jumps that you believe will continue and he will not go into another slump. That's an opinion, and you are entitled to that. No problem with opinions.

Lambiel and I daresay Takahashi are better figure skaters than Joubert. That's not opinions. They are facts when you measure the ALL the elements including flow and character of music. Take Joubert away from Metronome type of music, and what happens?

Joe
 
Joesitz said:
While I was in awe of his jumps, I found the excessive posing and rest stopping, lacking flow in the program. Everything is too calculated for me. I can visualize his choreographer telling him how to place his body, arms and hands during his many cross overs. However, I do understand his popularity with others.

Joe
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While Evgeni do a lot of posing and stopping I don't think it's just to impress judges and audiences. I've been a fan of Evgeni for long enough to notice how his health is getting worse and worse and I think now he does the stops (in competiitons) to give himself a rest, to breathe and start the next part of his programs. A lot of skaters now do that, I mean for example Lambiel in his "Four seasons'" programs has a very long stop in the middle of it, right before doing a couple of big jumps; Joubert as well. I think to a certian point, Evgeni does it because of that, I do think it's hard for Evgeni now to maintain his stamina during the whole program. Godfather was a very strong-powerful program but considering that Evgeni has had several injuries accumulating, I think he needed those pauses to make it work. And it's not just because of his injuries, Evgeni has a weak respiratory system, he's had double sided pneumonia when he was very little and then he had it again in late 2003 that actually made him pass out in the street while he was in the "Ice Symphony" tour so that probably had made permanent damage to his respiratory system and when you have on top the flu or things like that, you end up seeing Evgeni like at Euros 2006 when he was really running out of air and coughing (you can see it in his circular footwork coughing up).

So I think that he does that to give himself a second to rest, and the fact that he knows how to pose and mugging and things like that when he is doing nothing but resting, is a plus for him because the judges and the audience like it.
 
Ximena said:
Evgeni has a weak respiratory system, he's had double sided pneumonia when he was very little and then he had it again in late 2003 that actually made him pass out in the street while he was in the "Ice Symphony" tour so that probably had made permanent damage to his respiratory system and when you have on top the flu or things like that, you end up seeing Evgeni like at Euros 2006 when he was really running out of air and coughing (you can see it in his circular footwork coughing up).
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I didn't know that either. Thank you for the info. That might explain his "running out of wind" during his footwork at COI in Denver last year, still impressive but there was a little bit of it that just seemed a little off. He does do a great job of compensating considering though. :agree:
 
Wow, Ximena! It just goes to show that you really do learn something new every day. I never knew that Evgeni's respiratory system was affected so much by that illness when he was little, and I didn't know that his condition caused him to pass out in 03. It's amazing considering I've followed his skating for 10 years!
 
Ximena said:
While Evgeni do a lot of posing and stopping I don't think it's just to impress judges and audiences. I've been a fan of Evgeni for long enough to notice how his health is getting worse and worse and I think now he does the stops (in competiitons) to give himself a rest, to breathe and start the next part of his programs. A lot of skaters now do that, I mean for example Lambiel in his "Four seasons'" programs has a very long stop in the middle of it, right before doing a couple of big jumps; Joubert as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, many male skaters do posing and stopping. I have always wondered why it often seems to be just Plushenko especially from Russian skaters to be singled out in this matter. Yagudin did a lot of posing and stopping while doing those teatrics/mimicks.
 
Having Plushenko back will make the competition even more interesting for the next year. He is an amazing competitor, whether or not people agree about his artistic appeal. I am going to be optimistic about his return.

I also did not know about Plushenko's childhood illness and how this affected his skating. Kudos for him, and all other athletes, who work through their weaknesses. If posing and resting are what he needs to do to complete his LP, then I am glad he does. Most of the audience and judges do not seem to mind.
 
If you didn't noticed it at Euros, which would have been normal since you HAD to look to notice; it's more obvious at the GPF 03-04. As soon as it was over, he sort of bend over and skated around trying to catch his breath. I know a lot of skaters had problem with the altitude, but Evgeni's case was more obvious.

I do think Evgeni coming back will make it more competitive for most of them, because it makes then try harder and not settle for less.
 
anya_angie said:
Wow, Ximena! It just goes to show that you really do learn something new every day. I never knew that Evgeni's respiratory system was affected so much by that illness when he was little, and I didn't know that his condition caused him to pass out in 03. It's amazing considering I've followed his skating for 10 years!
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Hm, do you remember when in late 2003 he got that ear infection that the doctors told him he shouldn't travel so much? That was one of the consequences of his "passing out" on Russia. If not, you remmeber pics of Ulliana and him leaving a hospital? That was after that accident happened.
 
Oh I DO remember that now! Wow that is a shame. I also remember his grandmother passed that summer as well before the illness.
 
temperboy28 said:
Jumps are not the only only determining factor, but they are still the bread and butter, the meat of competitive skating. That wont ever change. If you want to be taken seriously to win the biggest events you have to nail those jumps. Takahashi has taken large steps to that, but he still must skate clean short and free programs, adding a quad to the short, and a second one to the free. Lambiel was a mess with his jumps this season at Worlds, and even before he could barely do a triple axel to save his life, and his quad, triple lutz, triple flip, and triple loop are all hit-or-miss. His only consistent jumps are the triple sal and double axel, his jumping prowess falls short of Mao Asada or Miki Ando in some ways. Buttle is an even weaker jumper then Lambiel with the lamest quad attempts you will ever see, and a triple axel that is barely more there then Lambiel's, along with ability to miss any other triple jump.

Also it is possible the judges like the skating of Plushenko and Joubert other then their jumps more then alot of fans do. Aside from their jumps, they skate with command and conviction and presence, they have alot of power and speed, their basic skating and posture is excellent. Plushenko also has some incredible footwork.
Click to expand...

As fan of the manly-man type men's skating, I totally agree with this... I also agree that Buttle has the lamest quad imaginable... if you know you can't land it, don't throw it... I will be very glad when CoP stops rewarding rotations on the jump without an upright landing on said jump... but that's just me.
 
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