2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[bybybybeeby]

Idk for me it all balances out in the end, in this case.

Young and Tuktamysheva had the 3a, which would have made the difference anyway even with higher marks.

dont wanna be dramatic but they didnt give young you UR call when it was more problematic than Anna’s loop.
and it’s not about the position she got at the end of SP. It’s too vivid wasnt fair anyway.
her ridiculous tes score will marked officially...with the name of her deubut score

 

[silveruskate]

And following this conversation I think both Tavi... and nussnacker are reasonable in their viewpoints. Just to add to the confusion.

 

[SkateSkates]

Ksenia was on fire today. What a difference a year can make! She looked totally comfortable and confident out there today. Her attention to detail is so impressive for the junior level and IMO unmatched so far this season.

 

[ruga]

Maybe judges indeed don't want to see a bunch of skaters from one coach and one country dominating the sport. They can't just start underscoring Alina and Sasha has the base value, so they might decide to lowball Anna and maybe Aliona. It's unfair of course, but that's only my speculation. I don't know what happens behind closed doors. Maybe someone here can give a more rational explanation.

Ok I found out a rational explanation myself: judges just like to give PCS similar to TES. I wonder what they'll give Anna if she lands 4Lz.

 

[Artemisa]

I don't like this program for her ... don't have the same emotion that the FS ...Anna wasn't perfect today ... and is her first skate like a senior .. we can't expect the jury give her a lot of PCS if she UR ...

 

[Edwin]

It's ridiculous to think people like Mishin or Tarasova are good old 'grandparents' of all Russian skaters, devoted strictly to the sport as a whole, not the outcomes of their own skaters and favourites.

They are powerful, influential players.

It is naive to think otherwise or ignore any such links of influence. They do exist.

Tuktamisheva is Mishin's only chance to displace any of Tutberidze's Awesome Aces from the coming World Championships. European Championships are sort of a minor medal for Russia. It is only worlds, against JPN, KOR and USA that matter.
So Mishin will apply all his influence and power, both over and under the table, to get his way and put his pupil in the best position. Samodurova will play no role is this, she is sort of wasted already. Tuktamysheva is his weapon.

It is always interesting to do some detective work on the hidden 'loyalties' of certain minor federations that field judges to events, or on the 'judging history' of certain individual judges in favour/against certain skaters.
All names, events and scores are publicly available in the needed full transparency, and one only needs to input the data in Excel to get some indications over time.

And again it is proven that judges discriminate against newcomers by NOT objectively evaluating the actual skating being done in front of their very eyes.

 

[bybybybeeby]

OMG, this is not a conspiracy again poo wittle Etewi and poo wittle Wussia.

If Anna lands her quad (but IF), she still has shot of winning overall. If Eteri's just-turned-seniors want to lead after short program each and everytime, they need a 3A and maybe some polish.

I wonder if this is a sign that QUALITY will be rewarded instead of quantity when it comes to transitions. It would be nice chance from girls doing various random kicks and whatnot regardless if it fits. I mean, since all Eteri girls have spirals in their programs now... maybe their team is in the know on what the judges will want. Maybe holding poses and clean uncluttered programs will be rewarded? (wishful thinking, eh).

Yeah so it is fair enough to give her wrong UR call just because she is not old enough

 

[Tolstoj]

dont wanna be dramatic but they didnt give young you UR call when it was more problematic than Anna’s loop.
and it’s not about the position she got at the end of SP. It’s too vivid wasnt fair anyway.
her ridiculous tes score will marked officially...with the name of her deubut score

Idk You Young's 3A didn't look clearly underrotated, granted i'd have not considered Anna's loop under either.

She can easily get a SB at Skate America and again, keep in mind she can still win this in the free.

 

[zounger]

Idk You Young's 3A didn't look clearly underrotated, granted i'd have not considered Anna's loop under either.

She can easily get a SB at Skate America and again, keep in mind she can still win this in the free.

She can get SB in 5years too.

 

[Tavi...]

Please, watch Young You 3A's "clean" landing and Anna's 3Lz3Lo's "underrotated" landing in slowmotion, and then talk to me about same judging conditions for all skaters.

Sorry, but no, I’m not interested in arguing about it. I’m sorry you don’t like the results.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I don't think Liza excels in any of the PCS categories, maybe Performance when she's on, the rest are really subpar, but she has a 3A, she has a new combo and she went moderately clean. Anna, on the other hand, went from being a top skater in juniors, to becoming a challenger now, so there's a little bit of time yet for her to be recognized as a top skater.

However, I'm all for developing a new way of judging PCS, which I don't think the judges at Lombardia are particularly interested in, but I'm from the camp that, sometimes, less is more. Just because you can do all the transitions it doesn't mean you should do them. The same with the hands above the head thing, it's not a particular rarity these days, neither are the legs going every which way in between elements.

 

[Grin]

Just passing by to say that if judges do the same to Anna in her free skate I'm going to find them IRL.
P.S. To speak about transitions, spins and all that stuff

 

[kallirroe]

topic:

sorry for not continuing this arguement about Anyas scores ( really can not understand either why so low but rumors has ti wont change because of our discussion ) , but has anyone noticed how funny and cute is the announcer in this event ? his voice kept me going on performances that i was a little bored but was waiting for his struggle to announce the numbers in the end :

 

[mathlike]

It is always interesting to do some detective work on the hidden 'loyalties' of certain minor federations that field judges to events, or on the 'judging history' of certain individual judges in favour/against certain skaters.
All names, events and scores are publicly available in the needed full transparency, and one only needs to input the data in Excel to get some indications over time.

Come on, the guy spends half of the year in Italy, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to understand it was not the best place for Anna's debut. Maybe there was no other option, maybe Eteri wants to toughen her up - she looks most psychologically fragile amongst her students. I believe in both of them.

 

[icecreamandsprinkles]

Why are you all surprised about Anna's scores? Yes it isn't fair and yes it may well be a lot of politicking behind the scenes, but come on did you all think that all 3 of eteris 3a would get super high scores and that they would let them take the top that easily? I already said it earlier I do think they do not want an all eteri dominated scene, so what do they do ? Take the skater that makes the most sense to underscore. And that is Anna,who doesn't connect to the programm the same way she did last year at least not at this point of time. yes she has a quad but a not so reliable from what we have seen last season. We will see if she lands it better this year, they can not really take that much points from Sasha and alena is so artistically refined they can not go and take points from her either

How you explained it made more sense. I suppose I get it now. I thought Anna was underscored but it makes sense that they aren’t going to let 3A come in and just dominate everything.

 

[fabienne1996]

How you explained it made more sense. I suppose I get it now. I thought Anna was underscored but it makes sense that they aren’t going to let 3A come in and just dominate everything.

That are just my thoughts and they could be logical, doesn't mean it is the truth, mabye she was just u derscored without any bad thoughts, I mean she really wasn't at her best either today, which is natural, her first real senior debut

 

[icybear]

Elizaveta getting a higher transistions score than Anna has to be the most absurdist thing ever. One takes half a rink to take off with her hands hanging out there forever as if it could not be more obvious the other does a several complex transitions in and out of them.

 

[Orlov]

Come on, the guy spends half of the year in Italy, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to understand it was not the best place for Anna's debut. Maybe there was no other option, maybe Eteri wants to toughen her up - she looks most psychologically fragile amongst her students. I believe in both of them.

Oh come on, Sherlock, it's nonsens.

Firstly, there are slightly fewer judges - 7 rather than 9 as usual. The fewer judges, the higher the likelihood of voluntarism. Secondly, Anya just left juniors, this often happens especially if people with 6.0 thinking and “dance lovers” (with these “line” in dancing and length of service) accidentally gathered in one location. Surely it's just an ugly anomaly, it happens.

 

[colormyworld240]

Maybe Anna should go back to her SP from last season. Her getting less PCS as a senior than she did as a junior means the judges don't appreciate the program. Perhaps they prefer more "cluttered" choreography, which is a shame because this program suits her. But where Anna shines is PCS, so if she's really a point lower with this than in juniors, it would just be the better choice. Must be devastating for her to see that in the judges' eyes, she is worse than she was in juniors, even though other skaters are known to get a PCS bump once they turn senior. Poor Anna (not Eteri or Russia who comes up with this?).

 

[vesperalvioletta]

Come on, the guy spends half of the year in Italy, you don't need Sherlock Holmes to understand it was not the best place for Anna's debut. Maybe there was no other option, maybe Eteri wants to toughen her up - she looks most psychologically fragile amongst her students. I believe in both of them.

Not saying it isn't done, but I don't think any coach worth their salt would deliberately send their athlete, especially a debuting senior, to a competition where they knew they'd lose (I say this as someone whose coach (not skating) did just that for an entire season and it absolutely tanked team morale and confidence).

I think it's pretty clear that pre-GP Challengers were assigned based on who is going to which GP. Liza and Anna are both going SkAm, the first GP of the season, so it makes sense for them to go to the earliest Challenger. Team Mishin is always at Lombardia, so Sofia was taken along for the ride.