Tuktamysheva's scores

[Lipea]

Ah thank you! I missed that! No excuses then.

No excuses for what? And yes, Liza has bad LP there; after SP, I believe, she was ahead.

 

[Lipea]

Well, speaking about SA in particular, there was a LOT of questionable judging that certainly did not favor the Russian skaters. Liza is not the only one who got hosed. In general, though, seeing these boring watered down Mishin programs year after year and comparing them to the much more complex programs of Eteri's girls and some of the Japanese girls, it's very easy to see why the judges are over it. She's not the only 3A in town now and the others have much more to offer.

Dima was dealt a crappy hand at SA, too, and he did not throw attitude or sulk. He accepted it calmly. Everyone is human and we can't always control our emotions, but I don't personally feel inclined to feel sorry for someone who seems to be developing an entitlement complex. Pay attention to the message you're being sent, and go work on your weaknesses. That's the only thing that is going to make a difference.

All Mishin's skaters look very old-fashioned now. He's too set in his ways to change his approach, or he would have done it already when Eteri's school started to rise. So Liza will just need to decide what she really wants and make some difficult decisions.

How did Liza throw the attitude ? Check your into please, before blaming a skater in bad behavior. Liza humbly said that she had a horrible performance of SP, and then that she needs to work more.
And again, why you bring up Eteri’s girls now? They are on the another planet. Japanese ladies were strong, but nothing extraordinary. Liza has a great short program, that’s about as good as of any other, and much better than what she had before.
Compare her performances to Bradie and Kaori. They add the ones to whom Liza lost or almost lost to.

I’m truly amazed how quickly some “fans” make opinions based on something they’ve heard in the air or assume, especially when it’s a subject of personality.

 

[Lipea]

If anything, Liza is too humble in her attitude towards her scores. I can imagine someone like Ashley Wagner to make a scandal here. The nonexisting URs in particular, give enough precedence.

Unfortunately, Liza has no one to stand for her. Mishin has lost his influence as he is “too old”. Her father passed away, her mother is not into her daughter’s career. A completely different case than what other skaters, especially the young girls, in Russia have. Plus TAT, who never liked Liza since her Sotnikova rivalry, always doing her nasty games trying to push forward her favorites.

So when we, fans, instead of being critical to the judging, blindly accept everything and even trying to damp the one who is humiliated by the scoring, we do a lot of harm for this sport and for those skaters. All these political games are unfair, harmful, destroying. They demotivate. We lost Radionova thanks to the judges robbing her European title in 2016, lost Tsurskaya, who was robbed her gold and place in the GP final, and thus at Olympics, that caused her end the career early. We lost Ashley because someone didn’t want her to be on the OG team, to have the worst ladies OG results in US history and loosing the spot. We lost Adelina who, if not awarded that quiestionable gold, would’ve been skating for much longer...
And only Liza is still fighting. Such a hero.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Also...do we really want all the Russian girls to have Eteri programs? People call Mishin's programs boring, but I am not looking forward to nothing but frenetic programs. I honestly can't even get into the programs of most of Eteri's students because there just too much going on, there's never time to go "Wow nice" because they're already off doing the next thing.

IMO there's something to be said for a jump nicely landed with a graceful running edge out of it.

 

[DSQ]

Also...do we really want all the Russian girls to have Eteri programs? People call Mishin's programs boring, but I am not looking forward to nothing but frenetic programs. I honestly can't even get into the programs of most of Eteri's students because there just too much going on, there's never time to go "Wow nice" because they're already off doing the next thing.

IMO there's something to be said for a jump nicely landed with a graceful running edge out of it.

I agree. There is something very nice about a jump that is aloud to breathe afterwards and it’s something I like about the Mishin style.

 

[yume]

64 and 30 PCS is not very high imo. I mean, if Liza is overscored (as some said that the low pcs she receives are even generous for her), with 64 and 30 PCS, how much should she get? 55 and 25?

 

[Mishaminion]

If anything, Liza is too humble in her attitude towards her scores. I can imagine someone like Ashley Wagner to make a scandal here. The nonexisting URs in particular, give enough precedence.

Unfortunately, Liza has no one to stand for her. Mishin has lost his influence as he is “too old”. Her father passed away, her mother is not into her daughter’s career. A completely different case than what other skaters, especially the young girls, in Russia have. Plus TAT, who never liked Liza since her Sotnikova rivalry, always doing her nasty games trying to push forward her favorites.

So when we, fans, instead of being critical to the judging, blindly accept everything and even trying to damp the one who is humiliated by the scoring, we do a lot of harm for this sport and for those skaters. All these political games are unfair, harmful, destroying. They demotivate. We lost Radionova thanks to the judges robbing her European title in 2016, lost Tsurskaya, who was robbed her gold and place in the GP final, and thus at Olympics, that caused her end the career early. We lost Ashley because someone didn’t want her to be on the OG team, to have the worst ladies OG results in US history and loosing the spot. We lost Adelina who, if not awarded that quiestionable gold, would’ve been skating for much longer...
And only Liza is still fighting. Such a hero.

What?

It is one thing to have an opinion but quite another to just make up figure skating history as you please.
Elena, Polina and Adelina were plagued with injuries, that is what ultimately killed their competitive careers.
It's doubtful Ashley would have continued after 2018 even if she had made the Olympics.

What about Mirai Nagasu? Dumped in favour of Ashley in 2014, she didn't give up and fought to get her olympic spot 4 years later. Where she had the performance of her life in the team competition. Is she not a hero, too?

I agree Liza is a fighter but mostly fighting herself, not the judges. 2015 and last season were her highs but there has been a lot of lows where she hasn't been good enough or straight up bombed her chances. She could have been at Sochi but she placed TENTH at 2014 Nationals.

This season, the bar has been raised even higher, yet she hasn't improved enough to get over it. Considering the competition just in Russia, she needed to.

All the bitching at Bradie Tennell doesn't change the fact she has raised her game, jumps were weak at Japan Open but the improvements she's made were obvious even before SA.

 

[Artemisa]

I think the problem with Liza and the scores is that: we have rika with 3A and Liza with 3A ... rika got the scores because of the 3A (not the program or pcs) ... and because she is the number one japonese lady ... and liza isn't the first russian lady ... that gets her under her skin because she isn't being judge equally because of politics... and if with kostornaia we get what the reason is of the differnce in scire... with other skaters with 3A or without them we don't get the preferences ...

 

[Mishaminion]

Rika does have better skating skills and programs/PCS than Liza for a start, she also has 3A-3T which is huge when she lands it clean.
Alyona is almost in a league of her own amongst the Russian seniors with her skating skills and overall quality. Her own 3As and Long Program only highlighted the stark difference between her and Liza in basic skating skill, overall quality and jump layout.

 

[rollerblade]

From forever ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRqBxksr0EU

That sassy step sequence! :luv17:

Lambiel's choreography, btw. Don't know who the coach was. Spins were similar to what she does now. I think the biggest difference for me was - there were generally more moves below the waist (ugh such bad phrasing, sorry). She also had better arm posture, very expressive elbows (don't judge me!), and definitely finished out her moves more.

 

[Scott512]

Respectfully disagree about Kerrigan, I lived in the United States in 1994 and for two years after and there was huge backlash against her. Her comments(something like Oksana was holding up the ceremony redoing her make up even though she'll "only end up crying again") on Oksana were uncalled for and straight up bitchy. Oksana was not off "doing god knows what" they were trying to find the Ukranian anthem...hence the delay.
That she deserved gold is also your own opinion. There's no question Nancy was a victim of a horrible attack and fought back admirably but her behaviour following her Olympic FS and at Disneyworld was not that of a fully grown woman or a true champion.

I hope there isn't an all Russian GPF, it isn't that they don't deserve it but that we all want there to be more skaters stepping up to challenge them. Makes it more interesting and gives other country's fans something to cheer for

Maybe our perspectives are different. To me Nancy was a hero for what she was put through by Tonya Harding's goon squad with that crazy attack that was like something out of a weird movie. Then she couldn't properly train for the Olympics and still went out and performed in what many think was a gold medal performance. She was flawless and naturally many like me thought she should have won gold and we got pissed off when she didn't even though Oksana was the more artistic and beautiful skater. I actually preferred Oksana's skating style and artistry and beauty as a skater. but because of the insanity Nancy went through and was put through I was pulling for her big time figuring Oksana would be back in the Winter Olympics when she was 20. Sadly that was not to be for Oksana Baiul.

Being a little bit snotty after the whole thing with all Kerrigan went through and having to have the orchestrator Tonya on the SAME Olympic team with her was ridiculous and Nancy being bratty for a few seconds should not even be remembered and does not even compare to what she was put through by the lunatic squad of Harding's.

But Nancy as far as I was concerned congratulated Oksana and never complained about the scores and about how her flawless performance should have won Gold and I always respected her for that. She was just a brat for a few seconds about Oksana putting her makeup on again and got caught on mic saying what you doing that for she's only going to cry again. I and others forgave Kerrigan for such a comment. Others have not. Maybe this is why I don't think it's a big deal for Liza to make faces for a second and she's not even publicly complaining about her scores and the disrespect she is shown in her mind by the judges.

 

[Mishaminion]

Maybe our perspectives are different. To me Nancy was a hero for what she was put through by Tonya Harding's goon squad with that crazy attack that was like something out of a weird movie. Then she couldn't properly train for the Olympics and still went out and performed in what many think was a gold medal performance. She was flawless and naturally many like me thought she should have won gold and we got pissed off when she didn't even though Oksana was the more artistic and beautiful skater. I actually preferred Oksana's skating style and artistry and beauty as a skater. but because of the insanity Nancy went through and was put through I was pulling for her big time figuring Oksana would be back in the Winter Olympics when she was 20. Sadly that was not to be for Oksana Baiul.

Being a little bit snotty after the whole thing with all Kerrigan went through and having to have the orchestrator Tonya on the SAME Olympic team with her was ridiculous and Nancy being bratty for a few seconds should not even be remembered and does not even compare to what she was put through by the lunatic squad of Harding's.

But Nancy as far as I was concerned congratulated Oksana and never complained about the scores and about how her flawless performance should have won Gold and I always respected her for that. She was just a brat for a few seconds about Oksana putting her makeup on again and got caught on mic saying what you doing that for she's only going to cry again. I and others forgave Kerrigan for such a comment. Others have not. Maybe this is why I don't think it's a big deal for Liza to make faces for a second and she's not even publicly complaining about her scores and the disrespect she is shown in her mind by the judges.

You do know Tonya was never proven to have orchestrated a damn thing right? That she was punished solely for failing to report what she learned afterwards? This whole thing went through court and she was never given a guilty verdict on actual involvement. Why so many people repeat the myth shows they don't care enough to get their facts right.
In the interest of fairness, Tonya had as much right to be at at those Olympics.

Nancy behaved like a sore loser, plain and simple. Her comments were bratty and nothing to do with the real reason for the delay, she couldn't even quite wipe the sour look off her face for the medal ceremony.

 

[readernick]

I think the problem with Liza and the scores is that: we have rika with 3A and Liza with 3A ... rika got the scores because of the 3A (not the program or pcs) ... and because she is the number one japonese lady ... and liza isn't the first russian lady ... that gets her under her skin because she isn't being judge equally because of politics... and if with kostornaia we get what the reason is of the differnce in scire... with other skaters with 3A or without them we don't get the preferences ...

Rika is a better skater and has far better programs than Liza. She has transitions and better SS then all the Russian girls ( with the exception of Aliona) . She also gets level 4s on almost everything. Additionally, she is musical. Her PCS /GOE is deserved and even lower than what she should be getting. Her 3A in the SP at ACI was stunning. Japanese ladies are consistent scored lower than others in PCS despite their generally impressive basics. Don't bring her into this..

Aliona has the same qualities as Rika with even more impressive SS. Those two girls deserve higher marks than Liza. But, I am still confused about the dropping GOE on Liza's jumps. Her jumps are beautiful.

 

[macy]

At this year's Finlandia I watched the ladies SP from the top auditorium (balcony?) and it became more apparent how slow she is compared to Kostornaya and some other top ladies. I like her skating but there's a clear difference, a lack of energy. She doesn't fill the rink like she should.

i have thought for a very long time many of Liza's issues would be solved with more speed. she has effortless jumps, but think of how gorgeous they would be if she flew into them like Kaori or Aliona?

it would also help "mask" the lack of choreo and empty spots, too. honestly, if she skated faster it would really make me want to watch her.

 

[rosy14]

Liza is simply not loved by the RusFed: last year Worlds farce was enough clear for everyone to see.
So, if panelists and judges must drop a Russian girl in order not to have too many of them at the Finals, she's the most probable candidate.

 

[yume]

And? Liza got all the titles but OG. She could be on the podium above Medvedeva last season, who was given an unfair opportunity to be selected to the team after placing 7th at the RusNats despite all possible judges support. Neither Lipnitskaya, nor Tuktamysheva got this chance after failing at Nationals a year following their victory season. But Evgenia got some cool sponsors, and supporters like TAT.

And it's sad because it was maybe the last chance for Liza to go to worlds and win a medal.

 

[Mishaminion]

Liza is simply not loved by the RusFed: last year Worlds farce was enough clear for everyone to see.
So, if panelists and judges must drop a Russian girl in order not to have too many of them at the Finals, she's the most probable candidate.

Or she can improve (and has said she will) and fight for a place in the final. Just like everyone else

 

[Mishaminion]

And it's sad because it was maybe the last chance for Liza to go to worlds and win a medal.

It could have been Evgenia's last chance. I think she was chosen because of her considerable past achievements and higher scoring potential than Liza. Which I don't see a problem with? They both deserved a chance but there was only one place, Evgenia was having a rougher season, coming back from injury and a huge coaching change, but was still reigning Olympic silver medalist and 2 time World Champion.
Liza was doing better in the first half of the season but had been underperforming before that for a couple of seasons.

 

[Scott512]

You do know Tonya was never proven to have orchestrated a damn thing right? That she was punished solely for failing to report what she learned afterwards? This whole thing went through court and she was never given a guilty verdict on actual involvement. Why so many people repeat the myth shows they don't care enough to get their facts right.
In the interest of fairness, Tonya had as much right to be at at those Olympics.

Nancy behaved like a sore loser, plain and simple. Her comments were bratty and nothing to do with the real reason for the delay, she couldn't even quite wipe the sour look off her face for the medal ceremony.

If you believe that Tonya Harding was not with her husband and their goon squad every step of the way then you got to believe in the tooth fairy man. Lol. But you are right Misha she was never proven in a court of law to have orchestrated the attack on Nancy. Neither was OJ. OJ Simpson was never proven and a court of law to have murdered two people but I know he damn well did.

 

[yume]

It could have been Evgenia's last chance. I think she was chosen because of her considerable past achievements and higher scoring potential than Liza. Which I don't see a problem with? They both deserved a chance but there was only one place, Evgenia was having a rougher season, coming back from injury and a huge coaching change, but was still reigning Olympic silver medalist and 2 time World Champion.
Liza was doing better in the first half of the season but had been underperforming before that for a couple of seasons.

Liza deserved that spot and could have scored higher than Medvedeva at worlds. And that's all i will say about that major robbery.