Tuktamysheva's scores

[Scott512]

I think the problem with Liza and the scores is that: we have rika with 3A and Liza with 3A ... rika got the scores because of the 3A (not the program or pcs) ... and because she is the number one japonese lady ... and liza isn't the first russian lady ... that gets her under her skin because she isn't being judge equally because of politics... and if with kostornaia we get what the reason is of the differnce in scire... with other skaters with 3A or without them we don't get the preferences ...

That's a brilliant and pertinent point about Rika and Liza and their 3as. I'm pretty sure Liza has noticed this as well as well as her legendary coach. And now with Alena doing trixels and get a humongous scores Liza is like...damn... What about me. ersonally I've never seen a one time world champion in any sport treated with less respect than Liza has been. But it is what it is and she has to deal with it. And it's okay if she sneers or glares at her scores once in awhile.

 

[yume]

I think the problem with Liza and the scores is that: we have rika with 3A and Liza with 3A ... rika got the scores because of the 3A (not the program or pcs) ... and because she is the number one japonese lady ... and liza isn't the first russian lady ... that gets her under her skin because she isn't being judge equally because of politics... and if with kostornaia we get what the reason is of the differnce in scire... with other skaters with 3A or without them we don't get the preferences ...

Rika wasn't the first Japanese at the start of the season, Satoko was. And later Kaori won nats, so her fed didn't allow her to be the 1st Japanese.
She deserved those PCS, because her skating is at this level. 3A maybe just helped her to get that faster. Because judges need some convincing tricks for some skaters.

 

[TontoK]

Rika wasn't the first Japanese at the start of the season, Satoko was. And later Kaori won nats, so her fed didn't allow her to be the 1st Japanese.
She deserved those PCS, because her skating is at this level. 3A maybe just helped her to get that faster. Because judges need some convincing tricks for some skaters.

I wouldn't necessarily say judges need "convincing tricks."

Having watched the sport for a long time, one thing is nearly always true. Young and rising skaters use technical firepower to announce themselves. On a playing field where everyone is pretty much at the same level, there's one way to stand out - do harder programs, and do them well.

The only possible exception to this might be Jason Brown... but when he skated Riverdance at Nationals, he wasn't THAT far behind his main competitors in Technical Score. At that time... and I'm working from memory, so I might be wrong... Max Aaron was the only US man doing quads fairly consistently.

Other than him, I can't think of a skater who soared to the top without doing new and difficult content.

 

[Scott512]

I don't blame Liza or her coach at being upset with the way Liza has been scored and she struggles to score higher than she does. Especially since she won worlds in 2015 Liza has been run over by Evgenia Alina Rika and 3A with scores that blows Liza's mind. Evgenia Alina Rika and 3A started their senior careers with huge scores being treated with more respect than Liza has ever been and that's what bothers her. it is just human nature for her and her supporters to be upset by that and I understand it. I'm not even a big Liza fan but I see the disrespect shown her in the figure skating community especially by the judges when she does great triple axels. This is why I believe she is upset and her coach is upset. And if you understand human nature you will understand it as well and cut them some slack for it. I certainly think the younger skaters whom I mentioned earlier all richly deserve their plaudits and high scores. But to be quite honest it has left Elizavita and the legendary professor Mishin scratching their heads.

 

[andromache]

If the depth among the Russian ladies was not so intense and Liza was the #1 or #2 Russian lady, she would be getting much higher GOE and PCS. However, in general, I think her GOE and PCS are appropriate for what she is putting on the ice. Her jumps are underscored in GOE, but her spins and PCS are slightly overscored - so it all evens out to a pretty fair score, IMO.

She has excellent performance quality, but her choreography is simple and not very interesting. Her SP this season is an improvement, but the LP is not.

She has a LOT of two foot skating, seems to be lacking in ice coverage (though maybe this isn't the case in-person), not super fast, and overall weaker impression of skating skills than others. She's also not maximizing her BV at all with her current LP layout, which I have no idea why not.

I personally don't understand all of the outrage over Liza's scores at Skate America. They seemed fair.

When discussions about skaters to whom the judges have been previously very generous and are now very stingy, it really makes me feel sorry for the skaters.
Reputation scores, home scores, judges flavor of the season scores, it all really puts me off enjoying competitions. It ought to be pretty clear in the rules what skaters must do to get high scores, but when the numbers are down on paper, it becomes less and less clear.
This is not a Liza problem, this is a judges problem.
Maybe Liza should never have been given high PCS at all, -her skating skills are pretty weak compared to top in the women's field... but at one point she did get those high scores and now she's been dumped by the judges in favor of someone else. This makes me move further and further away from being a fan of new skaters. -Sure, the judges scores say they are the bees knees, that their skating skills are superb, that their interpretation is almost flawless. --But wait a few seasons and that same skater will suddenly have bad skating skills and their interpretation will be considered sub-par in favor of the next shiny new skater just up from juniors. -This is my cynical side speaking. Most of the time I try to shut out the scores and just think about the performances that move me, regardless of who the judges like this season.

This is what is unfair, IMO. Liza had higher PCS before. She hasn't gotten any worse, but her scores have. Maybe she didn't deserve the high PCS to begin with? But she got them because she was a top Russian lady.

As a skater, it must be extremely frustrating to get such mixed messages from the judges.

 

[Amei]

How does it relate to her being dumped 12points under Tennell? Can you leave Kostornaia and Scherbakova comparison alone? Because Liza's scores are like 20-30 points below them, so why constantly bringing them up?

I was talking about he demeanor in the K&C. We really can't ignore the Kostornaia and Shcherbakova comparison - those are 2 skaters that she has to compete against to get a shot a Worlds or Europeans and maybe ignoring them is part of her current problem

 

[SXTN]

I don't think Liza's scores are unfair. There is no doubt she has improved in certain areas, but in the end it doesn't matter because she is not scored based on personal development or improvement, but in comparison to other skaters. And if other skaters are better, she gets the scores relative to her competitors.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Honestly, I would have been very angry If I was her. She is the best jumper in the world and does not get any credit for it, while tiny jumpers, full bladers with poor technique score 160 their FS. Nice.

 

[SXTN]

Honestly, I would have been very angry If I was her. She is the best jumper in the world and does not get any credit for it, while tiny jumpers, full bladers with poor technique score 160 their FS. Nice.

She has the best technique on her Lutz, but she is not the "best jumper in the world". Her 3-3's are of average quality because they are not consistent and they don't have a lot of distance or flow on the landing, her 3F is sometimes e, her 3A is good but in comparison to Rika or Alena a bit slow and laboured. Also the setup for her jumps is very long.

 

[macy]

Honestly, I would have been very angry If I was her. She is the best jumper in the world and does not get any credit for it, while tiny jumpers, full bladers with poor technique score 160 their FS. Nice.

she could be the best ladies jumper in the world, but she leaves a lot to be desired. she in no way checks all the bullets needed for a +4 or +5 GOE. good technique can only get you so far if you don't have transitions, speed, or telegraph your entrances.

again on the full blade...this is a made up aspect of "bad technique" that has no weight or consideration on judging or GOE in the system. same with most cases of prerotation, so i'm unsure why it keeps getting discussed as if it is.

 

[Mishaminion]

If you believe that Tonya Harding was not with her husband and their goon squad every step of the way then you got to believe in the tooth fairy man. Lol. But you are right Misha she was never proven in a court of law to have orchestrated the attack on Nancy. Neither was OJ. OJ Simpson was never proven and a court of law to have murdered two people but I know he damn well did.

I believe that they had every chance to prove she was in on it but no matter how much they tried, could not produce the evidence.
Tonya has maintained her innocence the whole time and with no proof deserves the same innocent until proven guilty standard as everyone else. She's as much of a victim as Nancy is, in so many ways. The media's treatment of her was appalling and full of Tonya is trash propaganda from the start. Her husband was also a vile, snivelling, lying, despicable piece of dirt who abused women...and who actually considered having Nancy murdered at one point. I think I'd take Tonya's side over his any day.

I don't know as much about the O.J situation apart from he was not proven guilty and unless you were there, can't say he damn well did because...you don't damn well know.

You can believe both examples are guilty but you can't know it, a court of law in both cases failed to do so.

 

[Mishaminion]

Honestly, I would have been very angry If I was her. She is the best jumper in the world and does not get any credit for it, while tiny jumpers, full bladers with poor technique score 160 their FS. Nice.

She is not the best jumper in the world, her 3A and Lutz are great but the rest, including 3-3 are not that great.
Also there is absolutely NO reason to drag Anna Shcherbakova and Sasha Trusova into it by insulting and bashing them in order to make your point.

You clearly are a big Liza fan, which is great, I like her too...but I do not exaggerate about her while simultaneously making nasty comments about her opponents

 

[yume]

She has the best technique on her Lutz, but she is not the "best jumper in the world". Her 3-3's are of average quality because they are not consistent and they don't have a lot of distance or flow on the landing, her 3F is sometimes e, her 3A is good but in comparison to Rika or Alena a bit slow and laboured. Also the setup for her jumps is very long.

I wouldn't call her 3lz-3T and 3T-3T of last season average. She even had tanos....that's what those who get big GOEs do.
She just needs more control on her lutz this season to add the 3T again.
When she's on, the height and distance of her 3-3 are a not bad at all.

 

[Ophelia]

3A 3A 3A. What else does Tukt have about her skating besides 3A, which isn't even the best 3A right now?

And thereby lies the point with her scoring.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

3A 3A 3A. What else does Tukt have about her skating besides 3A, which isn't even the best 3A right now?

And thereby lies the point with her scoring.

Are you serious? She has real toe loop, flip and lutz! She uses her toe pick when she performs these jumps! Most skaters cannot jump toe loop, flip and lutz at all!!! According to ISU guidelines these jumps are toe pick assisted and not full blade assisted! But how many skaters can perform toe pick assisted jumps? For sure not Anna, Alina, Alyona nor Sasha...

 

[SXTN]

I wouldn't call her 3lz-3T and 3T-3T of last season average. She even had tanos....that's what those who get big GOEs do.
She just needs more control on her lutz this season to add the 3T again.
When she's on, the height and distance of her 3-3 are a not bad at all.

3T+3T is just not up to the standard of a today's champion anymore so we leave that combo out of discussion. Plus: When she landed good 3T+3T's she had about 8-10 crossovers before.
About her 3Lz+3T: She landed it twice last season if I remember correctly? And both were a bit hooked and scratchy on the landing. Same for her 3F+3T this season.

To conclude: She has good solo jumps and textbook Lutz technique. But because she is skating so slow, she has problems with her combos. You need to approach the first jump of your combo with good speed and then keep it rather long and low.

 

[soogar]

I think the reason is quite obvious. She can't perform a more difficult program. You might as well ask why doesn't she jump quads
People blame Mishin but i think he knows limits of her skating hence Professor tries to balance Tuktik's programs

I think he's trying to do the smart thing and keep her healthy. Doing those flexi spins only works for little kids. Older skaters start to feel the pain in their backs.

 

[Mishaminion]

Are you serious? She has real toe loop, flip and lutz! She uses her toe pick when she performs these jumps! Most skaters cannot jump toe loop, flip and lutz at all!!! According to ISU guidelines these jumps are toe pick assisted and not full blade assisted! But how many skaters can perform toe pick assisted jumps? For sure not Anna, Alina, Alyona nor Sasha...

Errrr, Liza wrong edges the flip, usually in combo which is why she trashed her 3F-3T.

And please stop dragging other skaters in to it. The discussion is Liza's scores and her abilities, not a free pass to talk **** about her opponents. This is getting downright malicious

 

[TontoK]

Errrr, Liza wrong edges the flip, usually in combo which is why she trashed her 3F-3T.

And please stop dragging other skaters in to it. The discussion is Liza's scores and her abilities, not a free pass to talk **** about her opponents. This is getting downright malicious

You seem like a very nice person. So some advice you didn't ask for: Just walk away from the discussion.

The judges have been pretty clear over the past years where they stand on Liza. The scoring at Skate America isn't a one-off. Her team surely know what is required to get higher scores. Her federation has been sending her signals, too. Either she can't, or she won't, do what is required.

Every skater sees to have do-or-die fans who are going to defend that skater no matter what.

It is pointless to engage in serious debate with those people.

 

[Mishaminion]

You seem like a very nice person. So some advice you didn't ask for: Just walk away from the discussion.

The judges have been pretty clear over the past years where they stand on Liza. The scoring at Skate America isn't a one-off. Her team surely know what is required to get higher scores. Her federation has been sending her signals, too. Either she can't, or she won't, do what is required.

Every skater sees to have do-or-die fans who are going to defend that skater no matter what.

It is pointless to engage in serious debate with those people.

You're right, thankyou. I like your advice.

I've never had a die hard favourite. I like lots of different skaters for lots of different reasons, and accept they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

I don't really understand the whole defend at all costs and distract with insults against others mentality.