2019 Skate Canada: Senior GP Predictions Game Round 2

[Wilhelmina]

Ladies
1. Alexandra TRUSOVA
2. Rika KIHARA
3. Bradie TENNELL
4. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
5. Young YOU
--
6. Yelim KIM

Men
1. Yuzuru HANYU
2. Matteo RIZZO
3. Keiji TANAKA
4. Roman SADOVSKY
5. Deniss VASILJEVS
---
6. Camden PULKINEN

Pairs
1. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO
2. Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV
3. Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU
4. Aleksanda BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOSLOVSKII
5. Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM
---
6. Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON

Dance
1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER
3. Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER
4. Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON
5. Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN
--
6. Caroline GREEN / Michael PARSONS

 

[surimi]

I did the scoring for two years and yes, I completely agree that typos are a problem. Why should the onus be on the scorers, especially when all people have to do is cut and paste the names?

I think I would like to know how the game is scored to understand why a typo is such an issue. Do the scorers need to correct the names by hand if they're misspelled? I honestly have no clue
As to why some people prefer to write the names themselves, for some of us typing is much quicker than copying, pasting and reshuffling names (while still risking a first or last letter to get uncopied and lost in the process).

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I think I would like to know how the game is scored to understand why a typo is such an issue. Do the scorers need to correct the names by hand if they're misspelled? I honestly have no clue

We do need to correct them by hand, yes.

There are two methods of scoring. The manual method, where the scorer calculates the scores by hand. And the automatic method, where the scorer copies and pastes each set of predictions into a spreadsheet loaded with an algorithm developed by samkrut, and it then calculates the scores.

Both methods are time consuming.

I started scoring after the automatic method was developed, and I have only ever used it. After pasting in the sets of predictions, you have to code them to make sure that all the skaters are in a format the algorithm can understand. And having the names spelt the same way makes the coding much quicker and easier, as using "Find" and "Replace" will catch all predictions for that skater. If the name is spelt differently, though, "Find" and "Replace" will not catch the skater and the scorer will have to go through all the predictions and code these skaters individually.

If you want to see what the scoring spreadsheet looks like at the end of the scoring process, have a look the extra tabs in the Response Spreadsheet for the Lake Placid Junior GP (chosen because it had a Pairs competition):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D69XsOBZ_EBKO-BZVrA-Z5OhqoehvmW6qAoJmrjskL4/edit?usp=sharing

(Please note that the first tab was a part of the experiment using forms, and does not exist any more now that we are back to predicting in threads).​

When you have 150 odd players, it is a long enough process copying and pasting the predictions into the algorithm in the first place, without having to make corrections. So, some scorers resent having more of their time being taken up than necessary just because the player didn't spell the name the same way as it is in the Entry list.

With the manual method, the spelling doesn't really matter. But, scoring manually is a FAR slower process altogether, so not many scorers use it any more.

As to why some people prefer to write the names themselves, for some of us typing is much quicker than copying, pasting and reshuffling names (while still risking a first or last letter to get uncopied and lost in the process).

Mmmm. I would never have imagined that typing would be quicker than copying and pasting. But, thinking of it now that you say it, by the time you re-arrange the names, you are probably correct.

Anyway, I hope this explains why we want the names spelt the same way.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[DenissVFan]

My strategy is to open the entry lists provided as a link, make my prediction in Word, copy and paste the names directly from the entry list (instead of copying and rearranging somebody else's prediction), and then paste it here. As I'm making my prediction, I can click on ISU bios to check PBs/SBs, which is handy. It doesn't take long at all if you're used to working with documents. I really don't want to misspell names to make the scorers' lives easier and out of respect for skaters (of course everybody sometimes misspells names but I'd rather devote extra seconds to the task to make sure I got it right). The one time I had to type my prediction because I had no internet connection on my laptop was a pain because I spent way more time than normally double checking whether I got the names right on my phone.

 

[surimi]

Thank you for the explanation! Now I finally understand why it's so important. Listing just surnames without caps is fine?

 

[LadyB]

I did the scoring for two years and yes, I completely agree that typos are a problem. Why should the onus be on the scorers, especially when all people have to do is cut and paste the names?

I've been scoring for two years and typos were never a problem. It can happen to anyone, especially when we are in a hurry, which in the modern day cannot always be avoided. As long as the skater is clearly recognizable, which he/she usually is, I score them accordingly. It's for bragging rights, not for a million dollars...sadly. Maybe it's just an advantage when scoring manually, I don't know how much typos mess up any algorithms.

On that note

Men
1. Yuzuru Hanyu
2. Keiji Tanaka
3. Nam Nguyen
4. Matteo Rizzo
5. Roman Sadovsky
6. Andrei Lazukin

Ladies
1. Alexandra Trusova
2. Evgenia Medvedeva
3. Bradie Tennell
4. Rika Kihira
5. Young You
6. Gabrielle Daleman

Pairs
1. Evgenia Tarasova / Vladimir Morozov
2. Kirsten Moore-Towers / Michael Marinaro
3. Aleksandra Boikova / Dmitrii Kozlovskii
4. Liubov Ilyushechkina / Charlie Bilodeau
5. Alexa Scimeca Knierim / Chris Knierim
6. Evelyn Walsh / Trennt Michaud

Ice Dance
1. Madison Hubbell / Zachary Donohue
2. Piper Gilles / Paul Poirier
3. Sara Hurtado / Kirill Khaliavin
4. Kaitlin Hawayek / Jean-Luc Baker
5. Lilah Fear / Lewis Gibson
6. Marjorie Lajoie / Zachary Lagha

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Thank you for the explanation! Now I finally understand why it's so important. Listing just surnames without caps is fine?

Oh yeah. The "find" function in Excel is not case sensitive, so it doesn't matter whether the letters are capitalised or not.

Generally speaking, it is the surnames that we use for the coding. The only thing is that sometimes we have more than one skater competing who has the same surname. And in those cases, we would normally leave coding them until everybody else is coded, and then code them using their first name.

So, that is why it is better to be in the habit of including full names in the predictions. Because if you already have in your head who you are putting in your Top 5, you can sometimes not notice that there is somebody else there with the same surname.

But, that scenario doesn't happen too often.

---

By the way, I have now updated the Original Post to show the SP start orders. And you will be pleased to hear that there have been no further changes to the line-up.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Ziotic]

To add to the discussion about the spelling. When you using the algorithm to score a misspelled name is really annoying, not as annoying as emojis next to names but still time consuming. You have to then double check everyone's work and I personally find it frustrating especially since you can copy and paste so easily.

As for this round, I'm finding it very difficult to predict as there are so many skaters that could be second or tenth depending on the day.

Alexandra TRUSOVA
Rika KIHIRA
Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
Bradie TENNELL
Young YOU
Serafima SAKHANOVICH

Yuzuru HANYU
Matteo RIZZO
Keiji TANAKA
Roman SADOVSKY
Andrei LAZUKIN
Nam NGUYEN

Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV
Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO
Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII
Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU
Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM
Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON

Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER
Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER
Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN
Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON
Marjorie LAJOIE / Zachary LAGHA

 

[RoyThree]

I'm new to the predictions game, so I'm not aware of the history. I'm doing it for fun, and in the case of the JGP to educate myself to the younger teams. Just curious why the process for the JGP and the SrGP are not the same? I actually found the JGP easier to enter my predictions.

 

[theedgecall]

Ladies

1. Trusova
2. Kihira
3. Tennell
4. Medvedeva
5. You
6. Kim

Men

1. Hanyu
2. Rizzo
3. Nguyen
4. Tanaka
5. Vasiljevs
6. Pulkinen

Dance

1. Hubbell/Donohue
2. Gilles/Poirier
3. Hawayek/Baker
4. Hurtado/Khaliavin
5. Fear/Gibson
6. Popova/Mozgov

Pairs

1. Tarasova/Morozov
2. MooreTowers/Marinaro
3. Boikova/Koslovski
4. Yang/Yang
5. Knerim/Knierim
6. Ilyushekina/Bilodeau

 

[Antyv]

I used my automatic macros in Excel. They recognize some errors in names, but not all. For example, one user wrote here Roman Savosin instead of Roman Sadowski, this has passed. But when they write You Young instead of Young You, the algorithm does not perceive this. In the previous post everything went except this.
4. Yang / Yang
Link to spreadsheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x6U3KZ2i5-OgeTAJyiIMMnOPPcKgDRO9
If anyone is interested, you can watch it. Download is not allowed.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I'm new to the predictions game, so I'm not aware of the history. I'm doing it for fun, and in the case of the JGP to educate myself to the younger teams. Just curious why the process for the JGP and the SrGP are not the same? I actually found the JGP easier to enter my predictions.

This is actually the way we always submitted predictions. The process used for this year's Junior GP was an experiment to see if using forms would speed up the scoring process.

As I explained in my previous post, scoring the Predictions Game is time consuming. For the past few years, we have been struggling to get enough people to fill all the scoring slots. So gsk8 and I thought that if the scoring process could be speeded up, it might attract more people to volunteer.

Whilst being able to copy all the sets of predictions into the algorithm in one go did speed things up, the inability of players to edit their predictions meant they had to re-submit their predictions when the entry lists got changed. And having to weed out the duplicates made the process just as long as it had been before.

So, since there was no real difference in the length of time it took to score, we decided to go back to the old and proven method that has worked so well for the past 7 years.

Hope this helps explain the reasons for the different processes used

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Hopefully I won’t be caught out by any technical problems this week.

Ladies was tough. For nearly every position, I was dithering over 2 skaters. Having seen what she could do in Juniors, do I put Trusova at the top? Or do I go with the older skater who I have liked for a long time, but most of you probably don’t realise it because unlike most of her other fans I have been not been shouting about it?

Medvedeva it is then!

It was the same for the final podium position. But, I always tend to have a soft spot for the Japanese. So, I went for Rika over Bradie.

The decision over to have as my final scoring position was the toughest. I knew who I wanted to be in there, because I have been a fan of her for years. And when I saw her for the first time in ages at a Senior B recently , she only went and won it. But, at the same time, I think for her to finish in the Top 5 of a Senior GP may be too big an ask.

Ach, who cares?! Sima, I’m putting my faith in you!

With the Men, I ordered them by absolute PB (according to Rink Results) and, to be honest, I was pretty happy with the order. I didn’t feel the need to make any changes. I was tempted to switch Tanaka and Rizzo, since Tanaka’s SB is slightly higher than Rizzo’s. But I didn’t because I haven’t seen Tanaka’s programmes, whereas I have seen Rizzo’s.

I actually did the same with Pairs (albeit with only 2 seasons worth of results), and had the same problem, but this time with the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and 4[SUP]th[/SUP] places. The difference is that I have not seen either Boikova / Kozlovskii or Scimeca / Knierim yet this season. So, I left them as they were.

The biggest problem was with Ice Dance, because there were about 8 partnerships that I wanted to put in my Top 5! I knew who I was putting in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], even though I haven’t seen either of them this season yet.

I also knew who I wanted to put in 3[SUP]rd[/SUP]. And I knew it would be a bit of a risk. But, I went with them anyway!

As I said, I had 5 partnerships that I wanted to put into the remaining 2 slots. So, seeing as I had seen them all this season, I decided that the best way out of this pickle would be to just order them according to how the scores they had achieved in the competitions I had seen them in. And you know what? I was VERY happy with the order that it produced!

CaroLiza_fan


SKATE CANADA

Ladies

1. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA, RUS
2. Alexandra TRUSOVA, RUS
3. Rika KIHIRA, JPN
4. Bradie TENNELL, USA
5. Serafima SAKHANOVICH, RUS
6. Young YOU, KOR
7. Marin HONDA, JPN
8. Gabrielle DALEMAN, CAN
9. Yelim KIM, KOR
10. Alexia PAGANINI, SUI
11. Veronik MALLET, CAN
12. Alicia PINEAULT, CAN


Men

1. Yuzuru HANYU, JPN
2. Matteo RIZZO, ITA
3. Keiji TANAKA, JPN
4. Deniss VASILJEVS, LAT
5. Nam NGUYEN, CAN
6. Andrei LAZUKIN, RUS
7. Brendan KERRY, AUS
8. Roman SADOVSKY, CAN
9. Paul FENTZ, GER
10. Nicolas NADEAU, CAN
11. Camden PULKINEN, USA
12. Julian Zhi Jie YEE, MAS


Pairs

1. Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV, RUS
2. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO, CAN
3. Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII, RUS
4. Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM, USA
5. Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU, CAN
6. Evelyn WALSH / Trennt MICHAUD, CAN
7. Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON, USA
8. Feiyao TANG / Yongchao YANG, CHN


Ice Dance

1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE, USA
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER, CAN
3. Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON, GBR
4. Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN, ESP
5. Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER, USA
6. Betina POPOVA / Sergey MOZGOV, RUS
7. Marjorie LAJOIE / Zachary LAGHA, CAN
8. Sofia EVDOKIMOVA / Egor BAZIN, RUS
9. Caroline GREEN / Michael PARSONS, USA
10. Haley SALES / Nikolas WAMSTEEKER, CAN

 

[thatbeatingheart]

Ladies
1. Alexandra TRUSOVA
2. Rika KIHIRA
3. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
4. Bradie TENNELL
5. Young YOU
6. Yelim KIM

Men
1. Yuzuru HANYU
2. Matteo RIZZO
3. Keiji TANAKA
4. Deniss VASILJEVS
5. Roman SADOVSKY
6. Nam NGUYEN

Pairs
1. Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV
2. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO
3. Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII
4. Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM
5. Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU
6. Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON

Ice Dance
1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER
3. Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN
4. Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER
5. Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON
6. Betina POPOVA / Sergey MOZGOV

 

[lady_bee]

Men
1 Yuzuru HANYU
2 Matteo RIZZO
3 Andrei LAZUKIN
4 Keiji TANAKA
5 Nam NGUYEN
6 Roman SADOVSKY

Ladies
1 Alexandra TRUSOVA
2 Rika KIHIRA
3 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
4 Bradie TENNELL
5 Young YOU
6 Yelim KIM

Pair
1 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV
2 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO
3 Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII
4 Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM
5 Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU
6 Evelyn WALSH / Trennt MICHAUD

Ice Dance
1 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
2 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER
3 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER
4 Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON
5 Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN
6 Marjorie LAJOIE / Zachary LAGHA

 

[amarjargal]

LADIES
1. Rika KIHIRA
2. Alexandra TRUSOVA
3. Bradie TENNELL
4. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
5. Young YOU
6. Marin HONDA

MEN
1. Yuzuru HANYU
2. Keiji TANAKA
3. Matteo RIZZO
4. Andrei LAZUKIN
5. Nam NGUYEN
6. Deniss VASILJEVS

 

[Vandevska]

Ladies:

1. Alexandra TRUSOVA
2. Rika KIHIRA
3. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
4. Bradie TENNEL
5. Young YOU
6. Yelim KIM

 

[Rashela]

Ladies
1. Alexandra TRUSOVA
2. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
3. Rika KIHIRA
4. Bradie TENNELL
5. Young YOU
6. Yelim KIM

Men
1. Yuzuru HANYU
2. Matteo RIZZO
3. Keiji TANAKA
4. Nam NGUYEN
5. Deniss VASILJEVS
6. Roman SADOVSKY

Pairs
1. Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII
2. Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV
3. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO
4. Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU
5. Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM
6. Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON

Ice Dance
1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER
3. Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN
4. Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER
5. Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON
6. Betina POPOVA / Sergey MOZGOV

 

[npavel]

Men

1. Yuzuru HANYU, JPN
2. Matteo RIZZO, ITA
3. Keiji TANAKA, JPN
4. Nam NGUYEN, CAN
5. Andrei LAZUKIN, RUS
6. Deniss VASILJEVS, LAT


Ladies

1. Alexandra TRUSOVA, RUS
2. Rika KIHIRA, JPN
3. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA, RUS
4. Bradie TENNELL, USA
5. Young YOU, KOR
6. Serafima SAKHANOVICH, RUS


Pairs

1. Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV, RUS
2. Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII, RUS
3. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO, CAN
4. Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM, USA
5. Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU, CAN
6. Evelyn WALSH / Trennt MICHAUD, CAN


Ice Dance

1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE, USA
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER, CAN
3. Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN, ESP
4. Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER, USA
5. Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON, GBR
6. Betina POPOVA / Sergey MOZGOV, RUS

 

[Pippuripihvi]

Ladies

1. Alexandra TRUSOVA
2. Rika KIHIRA
3. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
4. Bradie TENNELL
5. Serafima SAKHANOVICH
6. Young YOU


Men
1. Yuzuru HANYU
2. Keiji TANAKA
3. Matteo RIZZO
4. Camden PULKINEN
5. Roman SADOVSKY
6. Nicolas NADEAU

Pairs

1. Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV
2. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO
3. Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII
4. Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM
5. Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU
6. Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON


Ice Dance

1. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER
3. Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN, ESP
4. Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER
5. Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON, GBR
6. Marjorie LAJOIE / Zachary LAGHA