2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Mawwerg]

Seems like Samodelkina landed her 3A combo at Plushchenko Cup.

 

[macy]

Something that went a little under the radar due to all this talk about commentaries, quads, etc. This was the second time Evgenia Medvedeva finished out of the podium in an international competition during her entire career. (last time happened in france last season)

I feel like we have to discuss this cause i don't know if this is a case of:

1) Accepting that she will never be the skater she was again, and unlikely she will compete with the newcomers so they decided to water down everything hoping to find that consistency.

or

2) She'd like to do more but she still struggles to adapt to this approach and after a year the big issues are still there.

Realistically is there a plan to make the team for Worlds?

Few things i'd like to point out:

- since last year they started to work on the lutz edge and the 2a. To this day these issues are still there: the axel is better when it is landed, but it is also more inconsistent, while the lutz she got an "e" even here.

- her spins are significantly regressed, i don't understand what they are doing there: yes she ditched the layback spin to avoid back injuries but she's also getting V all the time on positions that used to be fine in the past.

What i don't understand:

- the 3loop is arguargbly her best jump and she doesn't have that in the short for whatever reasons (i guess they were hoping to not get calls on the lutz)

- they could up the technical contents in the free: we saw her landing 3-eu-3 combos in practice, i'd personally push that over the 2a-3t which always look a bit scrappy.

I'm worried this is more and more becoming the same situation that happened to Tursynbaeva when she was in Toronto forcing something that doesn't work.

i don't think a lot of people understand how difficult and sometimes near impossible it is to re-learn a skill or break a habit you've done for so many years- most times since you first learned a skill. there were people on this board confused and angry when she didn't show signs of improvement after only a couple months with Brian. it can go one way or the other with any skater- eventually they break the habit and the new technique becomes muscle memory (which can take literally YEARS to do) or they simply just can't. we don't know yet with Zhenya, it still hasn't been long enough.

Brian Orser is not a miracle worker and one coach doesn't fit all. Zhenya saw the work he's done with others and is the coach of 2 Olympic champions in the last 10 years, that is huge reason to want to train with someone. but it also hasn't been long enough to know whether or not Brian can fix her issues. he might not be able to, and that doesn't make him a bad coach.

i think we can begin forming conclusions in another year or year and a half, but it's simply still too soon to judge one way or the other.

i wish both of them the very best and all the success in the world. i really want things to work for her, she deserves it. she is so passionate and determined.

 

[prorussian fan]

I think she did, not positive. And last season in her fanfest it was split down the middle, that we wanted this program or Experience as her short program. But I still love Tosca.

I always wanted to see Evgenia skate the exhibition program of Medithathion from Thais as a free skate. By far my favorite show from her.

 

[prorussian fan]

Something that went a little under the radar due to all this talk about commentaries, quads, etc. This was the second time Evgenia Medvedeva finished out of the podium in an international competition during her entire career. (last time happened in france last season)

I feel like we have to discuss this cause i don't know if this is a case of:

1) Accepting that she will never be the skater she was again, and unlikely she will compete with the newcomers so they decided to water down everything hoping to find that consistency.

or

2) She'd like to do more but she still struggles to adapt to this approach and after a year the big issues are still there.

Realistically is there a plan to make the team for Worlds?

Few things i'd like to point out:

- since last year they started to work on the lutz edge and the 2a. To this day these issues are still there: the axel is better when it is landed, but it is also more inconsistent, while the lutz she got an "e" even here.

- her spins are significantly regressed, i don't understand what they are doing there: yes she ditched the layback spin to avoid back injuries but she's also getting V all the time on positions that used to be fine in the past.

What i don't understand:

- the 3loop is arguargbly her best jump and she doesn't have that in the short for whatever reasons (i guess they were hoping to not get calls on the lutz)

- they could up the technical contents in the free: we saw her landing 3-eu-3 combos in practice, i'd personally push that over the 2a-3t which always look a bit scrappy.

I'm worried this is more and more becoming the same situation that happened to Tursynbaeva when she was in Toronto forcing something that doesn't work.

Sadly she was better with Eteri. Even though her technique was not the best, she was safe and consistent. Her programs had her essence, you knew they were only from Medvedeva. With Brian, there is no improvement.

 

[macy]

Sadly she was better with Eteri. Even though her technique was not the best, she was safe and consistent. Her programs had her essence, you knew they were only from Medvedeva. With Brian, there is no improvement.

she left Eteri for a reason and none of us know what exactly happened, but she obviously felt she had gone as far as she could with her. she may have felt she would get injured again and have to cut her career short. she has stated she wants to skate for a long time, so i'm assuming she felt like Eteri couldn't give her that. i don't think we should question her decision- she wouldn't have done it if she didn't want or need to.

regarding her improvement, read my post above.

 

[moriel]

i don't think a lot of people understand how difficult and sometimes near impossible it is to re-learn a skill or break a habit you've done for so many years- most times since you first learned a skill. there were people on this board confused and angry when she didn't show signs of improvement after only a couple months with Brian. it can go one way or the other with any skater- eventually they break the habit and the new technique becomes muscle memory (which can take literally YEARS to do) or they simply just can't. we don't know yet with Zhenya, it still hasn't been long enough.

Brian Orser is not a miracle worker and one coach doesn't fit all. Zhenya saw the work he's done with others and is the coach of 2 Olympic champions in the last 10 years, that is huge reason to want to train with someone. but it also hasn't been long enough to know whether or not Brian can fix her issues. he might not be able to, and that doesn't make him a bad coach.

i think we can begin forming conclusions in another year or year and a half, but it's simply still too soon to judge one way or the other.

i wish both of them the very best and all the success in the world. i really want things to work for her, she deserves it. she is so passionate and determined.

My view here is pretty simple.

1. Her current coaches stated that she needs 1-2 years to show improvement. One year and a half has passed, and we kind of still have no results. Flutz is there. Axel is still an issue. Rotations got worse. On average, there is no improvement: Zhenya now is objectively worse than Zhenya during the Olympic year, lets say.
2. And then, there enters the question: is it really necessary to break one's habit if it does not fix anything. Chances are she would be still skating as she was before if she stayed with Eteri. One can say there would be no progress, but there would be no regress either.

We all know it takes time. But time goes, and there are no results, so questions arise.

PS: as for long career, having a long career is easy, look at Leonova. I mean, yeah, she doesn't get to go to Olympics and Worlds and stuff and may not get any GPs, but noone is kicking her from the rink
Long career is not what Zhenya wanted when she left Eteri. She wanted to win.

 

[Tolstoj]

i don't think a lot of people understand how difficult and sometimes near impossible it is to re-learn a skill or break a habit you've done for so many years- most times since you first learned a skill. there were people on this board confused and angry when she didn't show signs of improvement after only a couple months with Brian. it can go one way or the other with any skater- eventually they break the habit and the new technique becomes muscle memory (which can take literally YEARS to do) or they simply just can't. we don't know yet with Zhenya, it still hasn't been long enough.

Brian Orser is not a miracle worker and one coach doesn't fit all. Zhenya saw the work he's done with others and is the coach of 2 Olympic champions in the last 10 years, that is huge reason to want to train with someone. but it also hasn't been long enough to know whether or not Brian can fix her issues. he might not be able to, and that doesn't make him a bad coach.

i think we can begin forming conclusions in another year or year and a half, but it's simply still too soon to judge one way or the other.

i wish both of them the very best and all the success in the world. i really want things to work for her, she deserves it. she is so passionate and determined.

Well the way the ladies field in Russia works is that if you lag behind, you will lose your spots one by one sooner rather than later.

I just question if there was the need to rework every single triple jump when her big issue was the 2a, and really it doesn't seem they have all that time to rework everything and expect to have a spot left for her at the next Olympics. (she said her goal is to win the next Olympics)

Tracy made a statements last week about Evgenia's need to learn to jump more with the legs than with the arms.

Not only that but with the spins, i don't understand the strategy at all,cause that doesn't have anything to do with puberty, new body,... that is just lack of practice, or deciding to spend that time on other things. Those are relatively easy points to get.

I really hope she can prove me wrong, we'll see.

 

[Arbitrary]

My view here is pretty simple.

1. Her current coaches stated that she needs 1-2 years to show improvement. One year and a half has passed, and we kind of still have no results. Flutz is there. Axel is still an issue. Rotations got worse. On average, there is no improvement: Zhenya now is objectively worse than Zhenya during the Olympic year, lets say.
2. And then, there enters the question: is it really necessary to break one's habit if it does not fix anything. Chances are she would be still skating as she was before if she stayed with Eteri. One can say there would be no progress, but there would be no regress either.

We all know it takes time. But time goes, and there are no results, so questions arise.

PS: as for long career, having a long career is easy, look at Leonova. I mean, yeah, she doesn't get to go to Olympics and Worlds and stuff and may not get any GPs, but noone is kicking her from the rink
Long career is not what Zhenya wanted when she left Eteri. She wanted to win.

That remark of 1-2y needed was very brave for Orser's team. Sorry to remind but those 1-2y are taken from human's life not from eternity. MED continues to grow, not becomes younger. I don't want to disgrace her or her team, but we don't always have a year or two...

 

[neud]

http://prntscr.com/pp96jk

 

[el henry]

http://prntscr.com/pp96jk

I don’t understand why you are screencapping Goldenskate when we are on Goldenskate?
This is making no sense to me?

 

[Charlotte 71]

Veronika Zhilina 4T
https://twitter.com/SashaWitchProj/status/1188774376516280320?s=19

This kid is amazing, maybe a worthy opponent to Kamila. I thought I was getting jaded after the 4A, but her performances on the Ice Age show are so impressive. She could probably do 4Lz next - her triple Lz just flies.

 

[Jontor]

Well the way the ladies field in Russia works is that if you lag behind, you will lose your spots one by one sooner rather than later.

I just question if there was the need to rework every single triple jump when her big issue was the 2a, and really it doesn't seem they have all that time to rework everything and expect to have a spot left for her at the next Olympics. (she said her goal is to win the next Olympics)

Tracy made a statements last week about Evgenia's need to learn to jump more with the legs than with the arms.

Not only that but with the spins, i don't understand the strategy at all,cause that doesn't have anything to do with puberty, new body,... that is just lack of practice, or deciding to spend that time on other things. Those are relatively easy points to get.

I really hope she can prove me wrong, we'll see.

To be fair, Skate Canada this weekend and Worlds last season was the toughest competitions Evgenia ever faced. She was a bit lucky at Worlds to get the bronze because Kihira and Sakamoto made costly mistakes.
A clean Medvedeva now is at best 6th or 7th in the world, that's the name of the game these days. I think she needs to realise that. If she does, I think a huge stone will fall off her shoulders and she would be skating more relaxed. Maybe then the improvements will come.

 

[neud]

This kid is amazing, maybe a worthy opponent to Kamila.

Zhilina will go to Juniors when Valieva goes to Seniors.

 

[andromache]

My view here is pretty simple.

1. Her current coaches stated that she needs 1-2 years to show improvement. One year and a half has passed, and we kind of still have no results. Flutz is there. Axel is still an issue. Rotations got worse. On average, there is no improvement: Zhenya now is objectively worse than Zhenya during the Olympic year, lets say.
2. And then, there enters the question: is it really necessary to break one's habit if it does not fix anything. Chances are she would be still skating as she was before if she stayed with Eteri. One can say there would be no progress, but there would be no regress either.

This is where I 100% disagree. Her body has changed significantly since the 2018 Olympics. I'm not sure why you think that would not have impacted her under Eteri?

Her jumps are overall better-looking than they were in 2018 as well. They're bigger, and there's much more flow on her landings, whereas at the Olympics they were landed with a "thud" that was very troubling.

There's also the issue that she was pretty significantly injured before, during, and after the Olympics, and it's possible that continuing her training under Eteri would have made her injuries worse rather than better. It is already confirmed that her back is permanently injured - that's why she will never have a Biellman again. That's not something that happened overnight under Orser - it's a long-term, chronic problem (like most back problems we see in skating).

The idea that Zhenya's skating would have continued being fine with Eteri post-Olympics is pretty ludicrous. Is it possible? Sure. But you're saying "chances are it's true" and there's really no evidence to suggest that.

ETA: Orser does not have significant ladies' experience, it's true, but he has more experience with adult athletes who are dealing with chronic injuries that they get over time, how to work around those injuries, etc. Eteri does not. She is gaining experience, sure, but I can see why Zhenya would move to someone more experienced in dealing with that than Eteri.

 

[flanker]

This is where I 100% disagree. Her body has changed significantly since the 2018 Olympics. I'm not sure why you think that would not have impacted her under Eteri?

Her jumps are overall better-looking than they were in 2018 as well. They're bigger, and there's much more flow on her landings, whereas at the Olympics they were landed with a "thud" that was very troubling.

There's also the issue that she was pretty significantly injured before, during, and after the Olympics, and it's possible that continuing her training under Eteri would have made her injuries worse rather than better.

The idea that Zhenya's skating would have continued being fine with Eteri post-Olympics is pretty ludicrous. Is it possible? Sure. But you're saying "chances are it's true" and there's really no evidence to suggest that.

Alina's body changed significantly as well and she ovecame her troubles in a great way. I have no crystal scull to be able to see alternative reality when Zhenya would have stayed in Khrustanyi, but definitely I can see an example of a skater who overcame most of her difficulties related with changing from girl into a woman under Eteri, while many predicted it won't be possible.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Alina's body changed significantly as well and she ovecame her troubles in a great way. I have no crystal scull to be able to see alternative reality when Zhenya would have stayed in Khrustanyi, but definitely I can see an example of a skater who overcame most of her difficulties related with changing from girl into a woman under Eteri, while many predicted it won't be possible.

Alina had no permanent back and spine injury nor a fractured foot like Evgenia had during and after the Olympics.

 

[andromache]

- her spins are significantly regressed, i don't understand what they are doing there: yes she ditched the layback spin to avoid back injuries but she's also getting V all the time on positions that used to be fine in the past.

On the spins - they have never been her strong suit. It's clear that Eteri trains her girls on spins A LOT, so that even average spinners like Zhenya always get their levels and decent GOE. But in general, I think there has to be less time spent on very tiring training when you're an adult who has been doing this to their body for so many years. Plus, since Zhenya isn't super flexible, spins might just be painful for her to do sometimes - which means they're going to undertrain them.

I do think they need to focus more on the spins than they are currently. But I think that is much easier said than done.

 

[skatergurl7]

Long career is not what Zhenya wanted when she left Eteri. She wanted to win.

Yep, everyone saying she’s happier with Brian... did you look at her in the KNC? That did not look like a happy girl to me. It looked like someone that is slowly realizing she’s likely done competing at Euros/Worlds. She hasn’t won a major event in 2 years, and failed to medal at 2 GP’s and now will probably not make the final a second year in a row. Brian said it will take about 1-2 years but it’s been 1.5 and nothing’s improved results wise. The jumps are still inconsistent and muscled out, spins have regressed, and dresses and programs just don’t fit her style at all. A pity because I think she can definitely improve, she just doesn’t have the right team to help her.

 

[Arbitrary]

Alina had no permanent back and spine injury nor a fractured foot like Evgenia had during and after the Olympics.

I don't know what is considered here as a permanent spine injury. But a back injury may mean muscles problem. An affected spine is a much worse condition.

 

[andromache]

Alina's body changed significantly as well and she ovecame her troubles in a great way. I have no crystal scull to be able to see alternative reality when Zhenya would have stayed in Khrustanyi, but definitely I can see an example of a skater who overcame most of her difficulties related with changing from girl into a woman under Eteri, while many predicted it won't be possible.

Alina has always had better jump technique than Zhenya ever did (even at the same age), and less injuries.

Everyone will agree that Eteri has improved with every new "generation" of girls. I think Zhenya was probably the borderline case - good enough to last longer than Yulia and through the Olympics, but maybe not good enough to make it through much longer than that. I assume Zhenya herself felt that way as well, which is why she left.