2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Mathman]

http://prntscr.com/pp96jk

? Some titles of Golden Skate threads? Does this post have a point?

 

[Lunalovesskating]

I don't know what is considered here as a permanent spine injury. But a back injury may mean muscles problem. An affected spine is a much worse condition.

It is a spine injury, it was confirmed in interviews by people close to Evgenia e.g. TAT. Orser also talked about Evgenia's injury last year. Considering that Evgenia herself has said that she won't ever be able to do a Biellmann spin again in her life, it tells you a lot about the seriousness of her injury e.g. Yuna Kim had to completely quit jumping the 3Lo after injuring her spine as a young teenager.

 

[nussnacker]

It is a spine injury, it was confirmed in interviews by people close to Evgenia e.g. TAT. Orser also talked about Evgenia's injury last year. Considering that Evgenia herself has said that she won't ever be able to do a Biellmann spin again in her life, it tells you a lot about the seriousness of her injury e.g. Yuna Kim had to completely quit jumping the 3Lo after injuring her spine as a young teenager.

Not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure Yuna was jumping loops in practices up until 2010 olympics, there's footage of her practicing loops from 2009 or 2010 in some documentary. She just wasn't getting to land it most of the time, possibly due to her injury, but she didn't 'quit' jumping it all together.
Also the words spine and back are often confused when translated into english, just something I noticed. Russians often say back injury, but I saw people translate it into spine injury, which I think is a nuance that got lost in translation.

EDIT: here's the one where Yuna is popping and 2ft some loops, it was the one filmed before 2010 OG. I think there were successful attempts in other parts of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxecol9slSo

 

[Alex65]

? Some titles of Golden Skate threads? Does this post have a point?

You will easily understand everything if you look at the start date of these topics on the forum. 10/27. A few hours after the FS Sasha. Or will someone argue that this is a coincidence?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Also the words spine and back are often confused when translated into english, just something I noticed. Russians often say back injury, but I saw people translate it into spine injury, which I think is a nuance that got lost in translation.

In English, these terms are used interchangeably as well (i.e. "back" surgery typically means "spine" surgery). Jumps and spins are punishing on the spine, and I don't think that type of injury is all that avoidable given the number of repetitions a skater must do to master these difficult moves. One hopes that training quads doesn't magnify these problems, but I think we know the answer to that.

 

[Decoder]

http://prntscr.com/pp96jk

This screenshot makes perfect sense to me.

 

[eterialskater]

Sadly she was better with Eteri. Even though her technique was not the best, she was safe and consistent. Her programs had her essence, you knew they were only from Medvedeva. With Brian, there is no improvement.

She looks more like the Medvedeva of old this season. It's good that she went back to the style she's comfortable with. I wonder whose idea was it last year she do Yuna type programs. I am actually liking her new LP though I have say it looks like Shae Lynn Bourne just took Hanyu's Semei LP, made some tweak and turn it into this geisha program.

 

[flanker]

Alina had no permanent back and spine injury nor a fractured foot like Evgenia had during and after the Olympics.

She would have needed the further rehabilitation in either of those two places and no one can say that in one of them it would be better. I know people sometimes blame the "old environment" of that but we can see this happens everywhere and Evgenia is not the first nor the last with such condition. I would say she was treated pretty well before olympics when suffered from stress fracture. After all her performance at the Olympics speaks for itself.

 

[andromache]

You will easily understand everything if you look at the start date of these topics on the forum. 10/27. A few hours after the FS Sasha. Or will someone argue that this is a coincidence?

I don't think anyone has argued that it is a coincidence.

 

[Scott512]

Alina and Alena will have a tougher road to GPF, I think. If they switch places at both comps, they'll both be in with 1-2 each. If they place the same at both comps, 2-2 is also enough. The difficult competition is NHK because they both have to beat Rika which is possible, but they have to be very clean. There is no doubt that Rika is the strongest competition of all the non-Russian ladies. This is what confused mw about Alina being at NHK; she had first choice and chose NHK when it was certain that Rika would be there, along with another top Russian. I know she loves Japan and Japan loves her, but I think the better choice would've been Rostelecom. Rika would not be there as the fed would not have wanted here there, and they would also not put Sasha there with Alina (but even if they did there would just be Sasha and no Rika). Yes, there'd be another Russian, but it would be a guaranteed 1-2 (as guaranteed as it could be) for the Russian ladies, one of which would be Alina.

This is not to say I don't believe Alina could win gold at NHK. I just think there was an easier option without both Alena and Rika (or any Russian + Rika) who are very strong skaters, and she had the first choice being WC. Alena, Anna, and Sasha didn't have a choice in their assignments as they were not on the podium at Worlds.

That being said, given Liza and Evgenia's placements, 2-3 would probably enough for GPF.

Alina does not fear Rika. Alina and Alena have a better chance to go clean than Rika does. Rika as good as she is almost never goes clean. Besides Alina loves Japan and makes much yen from there so it's normal she would want to skate there partly because she's a business woman now.

 

[Mathman]

You will easily understand everything if you look at the start date of these topics on the forum. 10/27. A few hours after the FS Sasha. Or will someone argue that this is a coincidence?

Sasha's performance at Skate Canada brought these familiar questions to the fore once again. And ... ?

This is what is annoying on this thread. Why can't Trusova fans take their 241 points and be jubilant? And then be happy about the 251 points that she is going to earn at the GP final and the 261 that she will get at Worlds. Why grouse around moaning and crying boo hoo everybody hates us?

 

[nussnacker]

Sasha's performance at Skate Canada brought these familiar questions to the fore once again. And ... ?

This is what is annoying on this thread. Why can't Trusova fans take their 241 points and be jubilant? And then be happy about the 251 points that she is going to earn at the GP final and the 261 that she will get at Worlds. Why grouse around moaning and crying boo hoo everybody hates us?

You did the same thing though, when people were making a bajilion videos/posts/comments about Alysa's jumps. :taunt:
Next time, the JGPF, I guess we all just have to take the points and be happy. :agree:

 

[Mathman]

You did the same thing though, when people were making a bajilion videos/ ... :taunt:

And that's the other thing!!! Those inconclusive videos that purport to prove something. Forget Alysa Liu, it all goes back to Yuna Kim and Mao Asada. You couldn't open the Internet without being confronted by yet another slow-motion video, complete with superimposed protractors and straightedge drawings proving that Mao's flutz was worse Yuna's 'lip. Stop, please, we get it, we get it!

Next time, the JGPF, I guess we all just have to take the points and be happy.

Absolutely. Go Kamila! :yes:

 

[Scott512]

Zhilina will go to Juniors when Valieva goes to Seniors.

Zhilina is scary good for 11. But do you know who her favorite skater is?

Alina's body changed significantly as well and she ovecame her troubles in a great way. I have no crystal scull to be able to see alternative reality when Zhenya would have stayed in Khrustanyi, but definitely I can see an example of a skater who overcame most of her difficulties related with changing from girl into a woman under Eteri, while many predicted it won't be possible.

Crystal scull? I've heard of a crystal ball but not a crystal scull.

Alina through puberty that has hit her fairly hard has remained calm cool and collected and unruffled by anything. It's her demeanor and quiet confidence that allows her to still be great 3 years into her senior career. Most girls when they grow inches and add 5 or 10 lb it throws everything off. The added weight has only made Alina stronger and better.

With her chronic left knee I think Alina's waiting until the Olympics season to bring a triple axel or quad or 2 into play. There is absolutely no need for her to do trixels and quads now with her chronic left knee. besides she sees the big picture and she wants to skate competitively well into her 20s I'm she can only do that by taking care of her legs and that troublesome left knee.

 

[nussnacker]

Crystal scull? I've heard of a crystal ball but not a crystal scull.

Crystal ball is for regular magic. At Sambo-70 Eteri uses Crystal skull to do her dark dark magic

 

[nussnacker]

And that's the other thing!!! Those inconclusive videos that purport to prove something. Forget Alysa Liu, it all goes back to Yuna Kim and Mao Asada. You couldn't open the Internet without being confronted by yet another slow-motion video, complete with superimposed protractors and straightedge drawings proving that Mao's flutz was worse Yuna's 'lip. Stop, please, we get it, we get it!

Absolutely. Go Kamila! :yes:

Those were some nice days, Mao vs Yuna war...
And Go everyone! they're all nice kids and deserve the best in the world.

 

[JazzUp]

http://prntscr.com/pp96jk

 

[Alex65]

Sasha's performance at Skate Canada brought these familiar questions to the fore once again. And ... ?

This is what is annoying on this thread. Why can't Trusova fans take their 241 points and be jubilant? And then be happy about the 251 points that she is going to earn at the GP final and the 261 that she will get at Worlds. Why grouse around moaning and crying boo hoo everybody hates us?

Honestly, at this moment I regret trying to answer your question.

? Some titles of Golden Skate threads? Does this post have a point?

PS. I think that all Sasha's fans are in a good mood these days. Nobody cries Why don't you let good people in a good mood do a little trolling.

 

[Alex65]

Crystal ball is for regular magic. At Sambo-70 Eteri uses Crystal skull to do her dark dark magic

This is magic of terrible power. Recent eyewitness accounts: -My name is Ahmet, 54 years old, I'm a taxi driver. Yesterday I drove past Khrustalny. In the evening at home, I jumped axel.

 

[Fluture]

My view here is pretty simple.

1. Her current coaches stated that she needs 1-2 years to show improvement. One year and a half has passed, and we kind of still have no results. Flutz is there. Axel is still an issue. Rotations got worse. On average, there is no improvement: Zhenya now is objectively worse than Zhenya during the Olympic year, lets say.
2. And then, there enters the question: is it really necessary to break one's habit if it does not fix anything. Chances are she would be still skating as she was before if she stayed with Eteri. One can say there would be no progress, but there would be no regress either.

We all know it takes time. But time goes, and there are no results, so questions arise.

PS: as for long career, having a long career is easy, look at Leonova. I mean, yeah, she doesn't get to go to Olympics and Worlds and stuff and may not get any GPs, but noone is kicking her from the rink
Long career is not what Zhenya wanted when she left Eteri. She wanted to win.

Sorry, I disagree, especially on the highlighted points.

I'm going to split this post into more factual stuff and stuff that's more my interpretation, so, here we go.

First, let it be said that I don't agree with all of Brian's decisions either. Putting three lutzes in the programs for the second year in a row hoping she would not get called is pretty naive. The spins are also an issue that need fixing and more time spent on them. I also think he kind of underestimated the internal competition in Russia and the pressure Zhenya would face.

However, I do think that Zhenya is objectively a better skater than she was during the Olympic season. Why? Well, I will not disagree that she is not as consistent now. This is kind of obvious. However, consistency makes a good competitor, it doesn't necessarily make a good skater. And Zhenya's skating quality has improved a lot. If one can't see that, I'm sorry but I can't help them. In short: Her jumps have better height, flow and ease when she's in the right mindset for competition. Her skating skills are also vastly different. Olympic Zhenya was quite literally, dragging herself across the ice with shallow turns and low speed. Zhenya now has speed, flow and deep edges. There's a reason she was one of the few to earn level four on her steps in both SP and FS at SCI when most of her biggest competitors didn't. And as much as some want to believe it, it is not the judges being biased against some of the others who got level 2. Of course skating skills and step sequences aren't exactly the same and it's possible to miss a level even with some of the best skating skills in the world (e.g. Hanyu in the SP) when you miss a turn or something. But it is at least an example that can generally be made: looking at Zhenya's step sequences now to the ones she had in the Olympic season, the difference should be clear.

That's for her improvements. Of course it is obvious that she needs to find her consistency again and fix the spin issues. I'm worried about that as well. But I think many underestimate the pressure she's been facing for a year now and what happened even before that. Will she make the team if she keeps skating like she does now? No. But considering that even Alina will need to fight for her spot on the team, Olympic year Zhenya wouldn't have had any chance either.

Now onto the other stuff:

Olympic Zhenya was quite seriously injured. She didn't skate for months before she came to Orser. In general, there are a lot of things regarding her body and overall health that make me suspect that she would not only have deteriorated under Eteri but maybe been plagued with even more serious injuries. I don't have any proof for that argument but neither did you for most of the points you made, so whatever, I guess.

Zhenya's back injury: Considering that Tursynbaeva, with a quite dangerous back injury that has forced her to miss both of her GP events now, was doing biellmanns in both (!!) of her programs at Shanghai Trophy, I suspect that Zhenya's body would have broken down even further if she had continued to train the way she had.

Besides the physical injuries, there is also the mental aspect that comes into play. I think it's quite obvious that while Zhenya and Alina have nothing but respect for each other as competitors, it might also have been awkward for the two of them to continue to train with each other every day. Especially for Zhenya. Zhenya also seemed to be quite in a melancholic, sad mood after the OG, she looked stressed out and unhappy. Going to Canada provided her with a different experience, a new path in life and new people. After the traumatic experience that was the Olympic season, that's what she needed and she has said similar things herself.

There is something else about the jumping technique. Tracy made an interesting point there when she said that, during the SCI SP Zhenya tried to go back to her old mentality and thus tried to jump the way she did before as well, which meant twisting her upper body into the jumps. (which is pretty bad for the back btw) She said she'd done that when she was considerably younger and smaller but that it doesn't work for her body anymore because now she has to jump from her legs. With Zhenya's painful fall on the lutz in mind, I'm pretty glad she tried to change her jump technique. At least she's still able to compete now...

The last point is both physical and mental stuff: Zhenya's health and body were quite different with Eteri and Orser, let's put it like that. I would not like to rehearse this stuff again but reading the interview about her issues with eating and her confidence, especially after the Olympics, should be concerning. Zhenya's got a nutritionist now and let's just say, good for her. Because I don't want to imagine what further years of the training/food regime she had would have done to an adult body.

__
I know many will disagree here. That's okay. I can also see when some are concerned because the mental issues are still there as shown in the SP. Believe me, I was and am as well. I think Zhenya and Brian will have to have a serious talk about future plans and how they're going to address the later half of the season. However, as much as it looks like Zhenya won't make the team now, it would have been the same with Eteri or any other trainer. Let's face it, Zhenya is 19. Any changes or improvements she will make will take more time. It will take her longer to learn new jumps/combos, it will take longer to change the technique. It's just the way it is. I personally find it admirable that she tries at least. There's no guarantee that she will ever make a Worlds team again. But we can't know that yet and neither can she. The only thing she can do is continue to work and try her best to heal and fix the mental issues she's been having. This will, whether we like it or not, take time and maybe help from professionals. Competing as an adult is different from competing as a child. Zhenya will need mainly need to find out with which mindset to go into competitions. The mental aspect is the biggest challenge right now. Her scores are not that bad. 209 with a bombed SP? She would have been capable of way more had she skated cleanly. And it's still a higher score than Liza got at her GP and she had 3 3As there. So, not that bad. Might not be enough to catch the 3A but then again, she would need ultra c elements for that anyway. The main problem to solve for her and her team is her consistency and her mindset. And that wouldn't have been better with Eteri either because as we've seen from Yulia - staying in an environment if it makes you unhappy and uncomfortable will not make you win again. In fact, it will do quite the opposite.