2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Finley]

Using my 500th here as a special wish for Alina to take the greatest enjoyment and pleasure in her own skating this weekend, to be boosted by the love and awe and respect of her millions of supporters the world over, particularly the little children who adore her and the aspiring skaters who are inspired by her story from Izhevsk to the World and Olympic throne, and to deliver a performance that strikes gold in her heart

May your wish be granted!

 

[colormyworld240]

Yes the pairing of Alena/Alina is perhaps not the best. In hindsight I think it would have been better if they had paired Alena with Liza (battle of the trixles), then Anna with Zhenya, and finally Sasha with Alina. The only risk with this is that Alina might not win any of her GPs, but she would surely make the GPF anyway.

Let's remind ourselves that the Fed decided who to pair up on the GP, and they do not care what is better for each skater, out excitement, etc. The sole purpose is to get as many skaters into GPF as possible. Given the choices of the seeded skaters (Alina and Evgenia), this pairing was probably the best bet to have the highest numbers in GPF. At test skates, the 4A were quite strong, with Anna being the only one who made a mistake. So they gave her the easier field at SA (Liza's scoring potential was the lowest amongst the Russian ladies, and I think the fed thought Anna and Liza would go 1-2 quite easily there). All the other choices make sense: 1-2 finish at all the GPs would likely guarantee GPF, with only SC and NHK being difficult choices with Rika (but I don't they knew Rika would be at SC at the time, and Alina chose NHK herself, the fed did not put her there).

 

[Mathman]

Let's remind ourselves that the Fed decided who to pair up on the GP,...

Or did the host federations decide who they wanted to invite?

 

[grado]

At test skates, the 4A were quite strong, with Anna being the only one who made a mistake. So they gave her the easier field at SA

They gave her SA in June, and test skates took place at September. Do they have a time machine?

 

[Jontor]

Or did the host federations decide who they wanted to invite?

Surely not. The invitation procedure from host feds are overrated and only applicable when all the guaranteed spots are filled. And there are lots of guarantees here and there...
In RusFeds case, all their Ladies were "guaranteed" so I am pretty sure RusFed had control of who to send where.

 

[colormyworld240]

Or did the host federations decide who they wanted to invite?

The fed choses who they submit for consideration to each event, no? Or do they just submit to a general GP list and the hosts pick from that?

 

[Jontor]

The fed choses who they submit for consideration to each event, no? Or do they just submit to a general GP list and the hosts pick from that?

I think your first sentence is more correct. But I find this GP assignment procedure a bit dodgy. The top 3 from worlds chooses, then 4-6 from worlds are decided by a draw. Then 7-12 from worlds are "guaranteed" 2 spots. Then there are guarantees for the SB24 and WS24.

I only think the invitation part takes place when all above is done.
"g) If any entries remain open and if all Skaters/Couples as defined in paragraph 2.2. a),b)and c)above have been selected for one (1) event, the Organizing ISU Member may select any Skater/Couple with a top 75 seasonal best score to fill the open entries." From ISU rules.

 

[ruga]

Well, I wouldn't call SkAm field weak at all - at the time the assignments were published, the fields was insanely strong - Tuktamysheva who finished 2nd on SB list with 3 3As, Lilibet with 4S, Bradie with her high score on WTT, also Sakamoto who has a pretty high scoring potential. Elizabet withdrawing, Kaori's mistakes and Tuktamysheva not being as well scored as expected made it seem weaker. The fields I thought were relatively weak at that time were Russia and France.

Also, as I have written a few months earlier, RusFed probably followed (if they had enough power to decide that) the logic of pairing up #1 senior with #3 junior, #2 senior and #2 junior and so on. Aliona had no ultra c at that time so she got paired with World champion Alina in both events.

 

[Batsuchan]

Two princesses at the draw!
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4SP28IILq2/
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4S1CZLoSya/

(OMG, I *really* want one of those red jackets with the skate ornaments on the zipper! )

 

[colormyworld240]

Well, I wouldn't call SkAm field weak at all - at the time the assignments were published, the fields was insanely strong - Tuktamysheva who finished 2nd on SB list with 3 3As, Lilibet with 4S, Bradie with her high score on WTT, also Sakamoto who has a pretty high scoring potential. Elizabet withdrawing, Kaori's mistakes and Tuktamysheva not being as well scored as expected made it seem weaker. The fields I thought were relatively weak at that time were Russia and France.

Also, as I have written a few months earlier, RusFed probably followed (if they had enough power to decide that) the logic of pairing up #1 senior with #3 junior, #2 senior and #2 junior and so on. Aliona had no ultra c at that time so she got paired with World champion Alina in both events.

I don't mean the whole field was weak. I meant the part that the fed could control (though I may be wrong now because I might not understand how assignments are made). As in Anna was the 3A girl went against the lowest placing "top" Russian from the previous season (Liza). Where as Alena goes against Alina and Sasha goes against Evgenia. From what I understand, the fed doesn't know who the other skaters are at an assignment when they make their submissions. They only know which Russian ladies they submit. The only other piece of information they would've had is that Rika was going to be at NHK.

 

[Jontor]

I don't mean the whole field was weak. I meant the part that the fed could control (though I may be wrong now because I might not understand how assignments are made). As in Anna was the 3A girl went against the lowest placing "top" Russian from the previous season (Liza). Where as Alena goes against Alina and Sasha goes against Evgenia. From what I understand, the fed doesn't know who the other skaters are at an assignment when they make their submissions. They only know which Russian ladies they submit. The only other piece of information they would've had is that Rika was going to be at NHK.

I think that's correct. I think RusFed would have known where Kihira would be as the 4-6 placed women at worlds are drawn.

 

[colormyworld240]

I think that's correct. I think RusFed would have known where Kihira would be as the 4-6 placed women at worlds are drawn.

Oh I don't know if they knew she would be at SC. It's just NHK is her home GP so it would make sense for them to have their biggest star there.

 

[Happy Skates]

I don't mean the whole field was weak. I meant the part that the fed could control (though I may be wrong now because I might not understand how assignments are made). As in Anna was the 3A girl went against the lowest placing "top" Russian from the previous season (Liza). Where as Alena goes against Alina and Sasha goes against Evgenia. From what I understand, the fed doesn't know who the other skaters are at an assignment when they make their submissions. They only know which Russian ladies they submit. The only other piece of information they would've had is that Rika was going to be at NHK.

Theoretically, feds don't "submit" skaters to be at a certain event. The skater's federation submits them for GP consideration and then host fed of the GP events invites the skaters to the specific event. Now maybe RusFed used its influence to somehow maneuver the girls into the events they wanted, as they're probably powerful enough to do that, and the of course the pairings certainly don't seem random. However, technically this isn't in the rules, and the host federation is supposed to decide who comes to what event.

 

[Jontor]

Oh I don't know if they knew she would be at SC. It's just NHK is her home GP so it would make sense for them to have their biggest star there.

But Rika or the Japanese Federation didn't choose NHK. The GP rules says that the 4th to 6th place at Worlds are randomly drawn. So Kihira, Sakamoto and Miyahara didn't choose anything.

 

[Jontor]

Theoretically, feds don't "submit" skaters to be at a certain event. The skater's federation submits them for GP consideration and then host fed of the GP events invites the skaters to the specific event. Now maybe RusFed used its influence to somehow maneuver the girls into the events they wanted, as they're probably powerful enough to do that, and the of course the pairings certainly don't seem random. However, technically this isn't in the rules, and the host federation is supposed to decide who comes to what event.

But I wonder how it works with all these skaters that are "guaranteed" spots. For example, if no one wants to invite Trusova (because she will beat every home skater with a sledgehammer), then who decides her spots? Someone has to take her.

 

[Mathman]

I only think the invitation part takes place when all above is done.

My understanding is that there is a random draw among the 6 host nations as to who gets to choose first, second, etc., for which one of Worlds 1-3 to invite. Then they choose, in some order, which one of the 4-6 they want to invite. Then they get to choose from among the others that are guaranteed two events, etc. Of course the hosts that choose last are stuck with whoever is left in each seeded category. Plus, host nations get first dibs on their own skaters. Isn't that right?

The wishes of the federations as to who they hope will be invited by whom, I have alweays thought that this is more informal behind the scenes jockeying. Am I wrong about that?

 

[colormyworld240]

But Rika or the Japanese Federation didn't choose NHK. The GP rules says that the 4th to 6th place at Worlds are randomly drawn. So Kihira, Sakamoto and Miyahara didn't choose anything.

But NHK would've definitely invited Rika. Or am I still not understanding how GP assignments are given? I'm confused now.

 

[Jontor]

But NHK would've definitely invited Rika. Or am I still not understanding how GP assignments are given? I'm confused now.

Lol! Yeah, I'm confused too. It is very unclear how it all works.

 

[andromache]

The wishes of the federations as to who they hope will be invited by whom, I have alweays thought that this is more informal behind the scenes jockeying. Am I wrong about that?

I think there are probably a lot of deals made between federations to try to get their skaters' their most desired assignments (as well as federations doing their best to "protect" their top skaters in home events).

In that way, skaters from countries that host GP events have a major advantage when it comes to getting spots - not even just talking about the host spots.

 

[Happy Skates]

But I wonder how it works with all these skaters that are "guaranteed" spots. For example, if no one wants to invite Trusova (because she will beat every home skater with a sledgehammer), then who decides her spots? Someone has to take her.

Yeah I've wondered about this too. I don't know how it works, but I can only guess that maybe they have to invite all of the "guaranteed" skaters before they can invite non guaranteed skaters? I'm also guessing that Russia makes trade-offs with other feds and uses its political influence for this sort of thing. Also, feds without major ladies' contenders probably would like to invite Trusova to help sell tickets (ya she isn't as famous as some of the huge Russian stars, but she still has somewhat of a following and hype around her).