2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Batsuchan]

For what it's worth, I would recommend everyone look at how the RUSSIAN judge scored Aliona/Anna/Sasha at the GPF. I always like to look at how the Russian judge at international events scores the Russian ladies because that I feel like that gives me a rough idea of how the RusFed views them. :yes:

SP:
https://skatingscores.com/1920/gpf/ladies/short/tss/
Here the Russian judge gave Aliona 88.45, pretty close to what she got at Nationals, AND she had Aliona about 10 points above Anna.
So I'm absolutely not surprised with the scoring in the Nationals SP.

FS:
https://skatingscores.com/1920/gpf/ladies/long/tss/

The FS scoring is also very interesting. Note that based on the overall judging, it was 1) Anna, 2) Aliona, 3) Sasha. However, the Russian judge scored them as 1) Aliona, 2) Sasha, 3) Anna.

I'm not going to get into whether this is fair or not, but I just wanted to point out that RusFed has been pretty consistent with their scoring of their skaters, if you dig into the details. :yes:

I still think that any of the 3 A's could win tonight, so best of luck to all of them! :agree:

 

[lusterfan]

Actually the difference in their base values was only 2.70 points. So I still don't see how this 90 was fair scoring.

We can't compare the scoring system now to the 2018 Olympic's scoring system. Skaters can easily break 2018 scores because of the new +5 GOE scaling. Alina was able to backload all her jumps. Also worth noting is that even though the 3A advantage over 2A is 4.70 points, but the GOE advantage yields another 2-3 points. Anna essentially has the highest non-3A program (what Alina had, without backloading) and is ~4 points behind Alyona's base value even without factoring 3A's higher GOE.

 

[Russia]

You are very clearly attacking Alena’s character. Not only did you call her a “real-life prima donna,” but you also made a big point of emphasising how “humble,” “down-to-earth,” and “classy” Anna and Sasha are. As soon as you make a personal attack the rest of your arguments lose merit. You are biased.

Everyone is biased. Name one person on this planet who isn't? Even skating coaches have their favorites, btw. It's true.

I said Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp and that she deserved 86 at most. Is that a biased opinion, yes or no ?

 

[DenissVFan]

Thanks.

So, why are Sakhanovich and Guliakova and others continuing to do a jump in the short program with the wrong edge? Do their coaches tell them to? Is the edge correct in practice? Does it give a bad impression to the judges if you do an easier 3loop in the sp?

Probably the last reason. Or some skaters may not like the loop.

 

[Fluture]

With all this winner's bashing on Alyona's score, I will find it extra funny when Anna swoops in for her back-to-back senior national championship title. Alyona's nearly maxed out with her triples (axels included). Anna's 4Lz's have been super secure, and I have no doubt she worked extra hard on that 4F after GPF. Just landing that extra jump (along with her 4Lz's) will earn her the victory. Unless she gets underscored heavily (which isn't likely given how she was scored in the SP), she can really pull this out. Obviously Sasha can still pull out a victory, but she has yet to show she's capable of landing them all. If she can in the FS, she will deserve her victory.

All Alyona can do is skate perfectly and hope those quads don't all land.

Yup. And somehow I have a feeling this is gonna happen.

The second point is crucial as well. Aliona may have an advantage in the SP but the FS disadvantage is severe and actually insurmountable if Anna and Sasha are clean. It‘s simple maths. (and that‘s me saying this who‘s not a maths person at all) If Aliona didn‘t have the 3A in the SP she would have no chance of winning whatsoever unless Sasha and Anna really bombed the FS. Now she does but still has to rely on not so perfect skates from them. She hasn‘t made herself unbeatable, she has made herself a serious contender. Nothing more than that. Apparently some people can‘t take that. Let‘s wait for the scores Sasha and Anna will get tomorrow once they show all their ultra-c elements.

 

[Mishaminion]

*Sigh*

I don't think some people understand how big of an increase 4-5 points actually is in a sp, where everyone is limited to what they can do. She already had the highest score ever recorded at 85, and now she increased it by nearly 5 points. I know this score doesn't officially count, but that isn't the point.

Had she increased her score by only 1 point, it would be a huge achievement already. 4-5 points is absurd and it takes away the seriousness of the competition and is a slap in the face to Anna and Sasha, who all deserve a fair chance to win.

Sasha learned a 3A, she did not try it here though after not quite making it at GPF. She wisely decided not to risk it.
Anna is learning one but obviously it isn't stable yet.
Alyona has only had hers competitively for a few competitions.

 

[lusterfan]

WHY is everyone so obsessed that Alyona scored 4.41 points higher at nationals??? Apply Anna's score rise to Alyona and Alyona's score would already be 87.11. Now add in a better 3A here vs GPF and her score already approaches 88. At GPF, Alina received the highest PCS for being the World and Russian "#1". Now that she's not here, the judges have a new #1 to lavish, and that's Alyona. Don't act like you all don't know that's how figure skating works. Win more and your PCS and GOE will rise. Be the best in your country and it will rise.

Alyona's 4.41 score raise did not come out of thin air if you also look at how scores are given at this competition. You can only compare scores within the same competition, especially if it's nationals vs international. A good chunk of that 4.41 is from PCS, which Anna and Sasha also received. Another chunk goes to her 3A. Sprinkle in some nationals GOE goodies to other elements and you can easily add up to 4.41.

Don't comment on numerical scores if you don't look into the math. Your feelings don't translate to numbers.

 

[Mishaminion]

Everyone is biased. Name one person on this planet who isn't? Even skating coaches have their favorites, btw. It's true.

I said Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp and that she deserved 86 at most. Is that a biased opinion, yes or no ?

Your opinion is yours and that is fair enough. But to make negative personal comments about a skater while simultaneously being very kind and respectful to others is not fair and a typical tactic to make someone look worse than someone else.
No skater deserves to be called a "real life prima-donna" for going out and skating her best no matter what you think of her skating or her scores.

 

[Yuna Luna]

Everyone is biased. Name one person on this planet who isn't? Even skating coaches have their favorites, btw. It's true.

I said Aliona deserved to be in first place after the sp and that she deserved 86 at most. Is that a biased opinion, yes or no ?

Yes. You attacked Alena personally, so your argument can’t be taken seriously.

 

[Russia]

Yes. You attacked Alena personally, so your argument can’t be taken seriously.

That's a logical fallacy, though. That'd be like me saying none of your arguments can be taken seriously if you have an opinion about someone or something. Really? It makes no sense. What does what I think of Aliona as a PERSON have to do with my opinion of Aliona's scores? I'm capable of being objective regardless of what I think of someone personally.

Am I being unreasonable when I say Aliona deserved to be in first place and that had she scored 86, it would have been a deserved score? Is there some unreasonable remark in there that I am missing?

 

[Fluture]

I‘m gonna laugh so hard when Sasha or Anna win tomorrow and receive the same amount of obvious and expected Nationals inflation for their ultra-c elements.

What happened to all the people swearing they would always love all of the 3A, support them equally and pretended they were the bestes of best friends etc. etc.? I knew this was going to happen but didn‘t expect it so soon. Especially since the competition‘s not even half over and the most important part is actually yet to be skated. I feel sorry for the girls. I knew the fan wars were going to happen but still...

And no, don‘t @ me for not allowing different opinions. I do and I like discussing. I‘ve made comments about PCS and GOEs and judging I considered unfair before and I still do. (I have no problem talking about Aliona‘s scores in comparison to Anna if I‘m provided with a detailed set of arguments, for example) But there‘s a way to do that while being respectful to the skaters. Fair enough, we‘re all biased, we won‘t manage to be objective every time. I certainly don’t lol. But insulting a skater‘s personality directly and bluntly and then going on and on about how “objective and reasonable“ one is is just a farce. Sorry not sorry.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

That's a logical fallacy, though. That'd be like me saying none of your arguments can be taken seriously if you have an opinion about someone or something. Really? It makes no sense. What does what I think of Aliona as a PERSON have to do with my opinion of Aliona's scores? I'm capable of being objective regardless of what I think of someone personally.

Am I being unreasonable when I say Aliona deserved to be in first place and that had she scored 86, it would have been a deserved score? Is there some unreasonable remark in there that I am missing?

If you would've just said it like that, no not at all. However, you did say some not so kind words about Aliona and about how unfair this is for Anya and Sasha, which it isnt.

We need to see that both Anya and Sasha do not rely so much on the short, the free is their big moneymaker, if the deliver, they will always podium and almost always win. For Aliona it is not so easy, she may can put triple axels in both programs, but her having an amazing short is crucial so she has a shot at podium and winning. Because Anya/Sasha skating clean in the free will trump Aliona

 

[Fluture]

What does what I think of Aliona as a PERSON have to do with my opinion of Aliona's scores? I'm capable of being objective regardless of what I think of someone personally.

A lot. If you do not manage to keep your personal opinion about Aliona as a person out of your analysis of her scores, you are biased and therefore everything but objective. Face it, you did directly insult her in your opening post that was supposed to be about scores only. That‘s why every discussion further than that is fruitless.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I suggest we all take a deep breath and chill out now only one half of the ladies nationals happened. The winner has not yet been crowned and it's an open game for everyone. So let's just look forward to the free and hope everyone does their best so it will be an amazing competition

 

[Yuna Luna]

That's a logical fallacy, though. That'd be like me saying none of your arguments can be taken seriously if you have an opinion about someone or something. Really? It makes no sense. What does what I think of Aliona as a PERSON have to do with my opinion of Aliona's scores? I'm capable of being objective regardless of what I think of someone personally.

Am I being unreasonable when I say Aliona deserved to be in first place and that had she scored 86, it would have been a deserved score? Is there some unreasonable remark in there that I am missing?

Lots of people have two separate opinions about a skater’s character and their skating. The difference is that most people have at least enough objectivity to keep those things separate, and not publicly slander someone’s character while trying to argue that their scores are too high; you apparently dislike Alena too much to show such restraint. That’s what disqualifies your arguments

 

[Mishaminion]

I very much hope all 3 skate their very best in the FS and that we get a display of awesome axels and queenly quads...and from Liza too! And that the rest of the competitors have good skates too.

I'll be happy for the winner no matter who it is, same for the other two medalists.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Off topic: I like Alyona voice.
Very unique.
I think she should become a Disney princess one day.

 

[silveruskate]

Actually the difference in their base values was only 2.70 points. So I still don't see how this 90 was fair scoring.

Are you talking about Alina or Anna as the difference between her and Anna is 4 points in BV, and then 3A GoE is an extra 2.5 points. If you're talking about Alina then different competition, and secondly I have no idea why you're bringing her into the conversation. FYI Alina skated under a completely different +/-3 system with different GoE calculations.

 

[Thrashergurl]

I don’t understand the arguments. All these girls skated amazing today and appeared to hit their maximum. That’s their goal and these are the results of the short program maximums. Tomorrow it may be a different story, but each girl seems to offer something uniquely different. This season I’ve watched them each improve and can offer no real critique today. These girls all - each of them- are doing their best to hit their own maximum score. I don’t think they are focusing on the others. They’re trying to do their individual best. How can anyone find fault with that?

 

[Figure 8's]

The Skater with the best short won today. May everyone have the best skate of their life in the Free. Love all three and don't care which one wins the Gold. I think it is really amazing how they each have their own style when trained by the same coaching Team It shows that the Coaches are treating them as individuals.