I believe the Flutzes & Waxels podcast and the In the Loop podcast both criticized this program on the grounds of stereotyping and cultural appropriation.
My spousal unit the classics professor says many of the arm movements, although stylized, would be readily recognizable to an ancient Egyptian.
Wow. :shocked:Well, podcasters can’t have good takes all the time, can they?
I am not arguing with you, @Tavi, I know you are just bringing the info, but if any of them are posters on GS, I would invite them to provide the background in ancient languages and history that entitles them to make such an argument. Otherwise, I trust my sources
IMO, The Flutzes and Waxels Podcast does a really good job talking about the problems with Chock and Bates’ free dance at the 30 minute mark in their US International Classic Dance episode. I think it’s a great listen as to why the arms and the belly dancing could be considered offensive and portraying inaccurate stereotypes about Egyptian culture. One of the podcasters has a major in Egyptology, and even though ancient Egypt is a dead culture, the way it’s portrayed in media still has a huge impact on how people outside view the modern Egyptian culture
Also, I agree that C/B’s free dance is mesmerizing and super unique. It’s my personal favorite free dance of the season and it’s super engaging to watch every time, but it’s definitely not the most nuanced or respectful portrayal of Egyptian culture.
Maybe I will sometime listen to the podcast: I am impressed that one of the podcasters has a major in Egyptology. However, without getting into "can you top this", so far they still don't have Spousal Unit's education and academic career. I'm still going with my source. So, accepting that he is not a figure skating fan (and I love him anyway:luv17 and has seen the snake dance program exactly once, he says that the hands are stylized representations that were common in the writings and artwork of the time. An ancient Egyptian would have understood and appreciated the movements in this program. I didn't see any "belly dancing", I saw someone trying to be a snake.
I don't know what "respectful" means. I have yet to see one Gladiator program that is "respectful" of ancient Roman culture. But I love them anyway. And whether those programs give outsiders an accurate view of Italy today; that's a connection that's way too tenuous for me to even think about. Likewise with the Snake Dance.
We agree we love the program:agree:
IMO, The Flutzes and Waxels Podcast does a really good job talking about the problems with Chock and Bates’ free dance at the 30 minute mark in their US International Classic Dance episode. I think it’s a great listen as to why the arms and the belly dancing could be considered offensive and portraying inaccurate stereotypes about Egyptian culture. One of the podcasters has a major in Egyptology, and even though ancient Egypt is a dead culture, the way it’s portrayed in media still has a huge impact on how people outside view the modern Egyptian culture
Also, I agree that C/B’s free dance is mesmerizing and super unique. It’s my personal favorite free dance of the season and it’s super engaging to watch every time, but it’s definitely not the most nuanced or respectful portrayal of Egyptian culture.
Well, this feels like gatekeeping. And nonetheless, it's a counterpoint with a lot of founded merit that I'm surprised is being dismissed so, especially when you haven't listened.
I'd probably get carpal tunnel syndrome if I listed ID programs that are "definitely not the most nuanced or respectful portrayal(s)" of foreign cultures. On second thought, make that "definitely."
One thing you can say about all the old Detroit teams under Marina and Igor...they do their cultural homework.
I'm about as liberal as you get, and I get fed up with this notion that ANY use of a specific part of a culture that is not specifically native to that particular person or team is deemed offensive appropriation.
Does that mean every single non-American team or individual skater who uses rap or hip hop is an offensive appropriator? To take just one example.
I don’t know what gatekeeping means here. Truly.
I’m not supposed to take the word of my spousal unit of many years with the doctorate in classics and 40 years in academia over the Podcast? Sorry, I’ll take marital harmony over the podcast. you are right that to criticize a podcast I have not listened to is unfair, so I should refrain from that.
Jumping off and directed to the general proposition, this FD is no more cultural appropriation than I am Michelle Kwan. I have already given my reasons in the previous post.
And to respond to another post, I’m sorry this is evidently a thing on skating Twitter, but what I think of skating Twitter is why I’m here on Goldenskate.
Go Madi and Evan
I think this example is a bit more complex than you're making it, WeakAnkles. One, it bakes in an assumption that an American team couldn't use rap or hip hop in a program in an appropriative manner, which they absolutely can. Two, I think there's a contextual issue when we're talking about figure skating. There are not, and historically have not been, a large number of black skaters, especially African-American skaters, in figure skating. Especially at the competitive level. When the vast majority of people who participate in and enjoy a sport are not members of the group being referenced in an artistic portrayal, there's room for more scrutiny because there's less likely to be conscious regard for their interests and perspective in a meaningful way.
TL;DR: The answer is no. But there's no need to treat it as an issue of something being always/never appropriative, which always seems to be the immediate reaction when a specific program is criticized in this way.
Anyways, I hope C/B win Nationals because they have the most complete programs.
Woah, is this true? Like, in the entire history of competitive ice dance, has there never been an age gap of more than 7 years? *googles frantically*
I’m seeing an invalid ChSt on the protocol of Cesanek/Yehorov from the junior Free dance. It looks like it cost them the silver medal (came in 4th)! How do you have invalid character steps??
ETA:scrolling down now I am seeing invalid character steps for three other teams as well in this event! I’ve never seen this before. That panel took FOREVER scoring and I knew something seemed off. Anyone know what is going on?
Quite a few Gadbois teams had this problem earlier in the season. The problem with those teams was their Character step didn't very obviously start from one side of the boards and end at the other end.
Ice dance in the Us is gearing up for anice battle. The fact teams are changing programs suggests they want to win and know when things aren't workng or are working. Late changes means in the cost benefit analysis they think it is worth the gamble overall. I think the battle is for one and two Chock and Bates versus Hubell and Donahue and then we have the third spot open for worlds. HB look vulnerable. MC look precarious too. C/P have not risen as fast as some thought. Tehre are the new promising teams too. That third spot is going to be a killer battle.
Quite a few Gadbois teams had this problem earlier in the season. The problem with those teams was their Character step didn't very obviously start from one side of the boards and end at the other end.
Are you telling me this wasn’t an issue for panels at regionals/dance final but it is getting called here? Not every panel is picking it up but every so often you get someone who is a stickler?
If you ask me Molly and Yehor were pretty close to the judges then went to the opposite wall. Did they want them literally touching the boards?
A shame they didn’t catch it at one of their previous events. Such a hard lesson to learn at a national championship.