US Figure Skating is not the the only one not strictly following Nationals placements. Roman hasn’t been named to the worlds team for Canada, even though his margin of winning over Nam was significantly larger than Tomoki over Vincent, and neither Nam or Keegan are world medalists. Adam in his book described his laser focus on fulfilling the body of work criteria (which was clearly laid out and he thoroughly memorized) to give the best chance of his making the Olympic team.
2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating
- Thread starter MarinHondas
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- Nov 30, 2015
I loved both songs and will watch her free again and again.
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- Jun 21, 2003
They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Historically, the USFSA faced criticism for being a bunch of wusses that did not know how to play the cut-throat National Federation game. Other countries were cleverly manipulating things to make sure that they maximized their chances to get international medals, while the USFSA just lumbered along under the archaic system of, top three at Nationals automatically go to Worlds.
Little by little the USFSA evolved toward taking other factors more strongly into account. This process was not noticed at first because most of the time the top people at Nationals were the people you want to send anyway, so no controversy arose.
Who has the better chance of medaling at Worlds, Vincent Zhou or Tomoki Hawatashi? I can see an argument for going with a reigning world medalist who is known to the international judges, despite his showing a little rust.
Is this fair? Fairness is not one of the selection criteria. Will it produce results? Maybe.
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I don't know how many Zhou-naysaysers are aware that Vincent's training opportunities were very limited at Brown. Ice facilities were quite far from the dorms, and required driving back and forth several times a day. That not only cut into his ability to train, but also his study time. As he is in a demanding pre-med program, he was not able to do his GP events this fall because they were scheduled back-to-back during midterm exams.
Vincent has now taken a leave of absence until after the 2022 Olympics (a major reason he chose Brown, because few colleges would allow a leave of absence after just one semester). He will be fully dedicated to practice from now on.
What Hiwatashi supporters don't seem to recognize is that Tomoki is not anywhere near as consistent as a well-trained Vincent is. Tomoki can deliver a fantastic FS at one event, then is hit or miss in his next. He scored 227 for 5th place at IDF then only 207 for 10th at NHK. He had botched SPs at both his GPs. He was able to redeem himself with a squeaky clean FS at IDF, but had 3A problems in both segments at NHK.
Vincent has now taken a leave of absence until after the 2022 Olympics (a major reason he chose Brown, because few colleges would allow a leave of absence after just one semester). He will be fully dedicated to practice from now on.
What Hiwatashi supporters don't seem to recognize is that Tomoki is not anywhere near as consistent as a well-trained Vincent is. Tomoki can deliver a fantastic FS at one event, then is hit or miss in his next. He scored 227 for 5th place at IDF then only 207 for 10th at NHK. He had botched SPs at both his GPs. He was able to redeem himself with a squeaky clean FS at IDF, but had 3A problems in both segments at NHK.
Here are the alternates.
Alternate 1 – Audrey Shin
Alternate 2 – Gabriella Izzo
Alternate 3 – Isabelle Inthisone
Alternate 4 - Calista Choi
Looks like they went more for body of work than national results. Good for Audrey nabbing the 1st alternate spot after just missing nationals.
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- Jun 21, 2003
All that's true. But does it address the issue of what's the most fair selection procedure? Should the USFSA give extra points for having difficult training conditions or for having responsibilities (like college) outside of skating?
If I were on the selection committee and faced no other choice except, who is most likely to win a medal at Worlds, I would certainly go with Vincent. But I was also impressed with TontoK's observation on another thread that the matter should be settled by the athletes on the field of play, not in the smoke-filed back rooms of officials and on-lookers.
Oh well. Back to the ladies.
I agree with everything you just said, but I think you posted on the wrong thread.
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- Oct 30, 2012
I am not too optimistic about Gracie going to the Olympics. Even if she manages to get back to her peak technical capability she still has her nerves to overcome, which was an issue and I don't think she has been working on that. She will have to knock one of Alysa, Bradie and Mariah and beat Ting and Hannah when they come back next season.
I also hope Mariah states to programs without lyrics next season, and see how she interprets more abstract music.
I also hope Mariah states to programs without lyrics next season, and see how she interprets more abstract music.
Look up↑; my post was responding to posts 4020 and 4029 above---in this thread.
It was probably more complicated than that -- pairs had already doing short programs for several years because they didn't do figures; there had already been pressure from various people within the sport to reduce the weighting of figures relative to freeskating in singles skating and they had already been reduced from 60 to 50% when Schuba and Lynn were competing head to head -- but they did make handy poster children for the reason for adding the SP, intensifying the argument to make a real change sooner rather than later.
There had been several instances before 2006 of reigning world medalists who withdrew from Nationals being named to the world or Olympic ahead of national medalists who might otherwise have qualified. Sometimes that turned out to be a good choice, other times not so much.
Or Nicole Bobek 1996, which at the time was seen as a departure from recent procedure.
But it wasn't until the 2000s that the rules explicitly changed to allow considering more than just Nationals results and naming skaters with strong body of work who competed the whole event at Nationals but placed lower than the number of slots available.
US Ladies Team for Junior Worlds:
- Starr Andrews (6th US Senior Nationals) 2nd 2019 Golden Spin Jrs, 5th IDF 2019
- Alysa Liu (Senior Ladies Champion) 2 gold JGP medals, Silver JGPF
- Lindsay Thorngren (2020 Junior Ladies Champ) 8th Baltic Cup, 158.09. US Intermediate Champ 2019; skipped Novices and moved up to JR.
Note: Isabeau Levito, who won the US Novice Final with 171.45, qualified to skate Junior at National, where she scored 179.45 and won Junior silver. She is too young for JW 20 but will make her Junior debut next season in the JGP. Isabeau won Intermediate silver behind Lindsay Thorngren at 2019 Nationals. Lindsay skipped Novice to move up to Junior, but Isabeau was too young.
I see. My mistake.
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- Oct 22, 2019
I hate to say this, but I think her chances of medaling are slim. But good for her for keeping at it.
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- Oct 22, 2019
Well, the problem is that you could end up with a World Team made up of people with one great fluke performance.
I think the answer is neither. I think Tomoki should have gone, because Vincent is not back full strength-not even close. Nathan is a lock for 1-3, so what would it have mattered if they had put Tomoki in instead of Vincent? Last year was last year, and Vincent took this year off. Tomoki did not.
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- Feb 17, 2010
The Bobek situation, IIRC, had to do with her skating in ice shows prior to the event and showing up to Nationals injured and/or underprepared. Plus Callahan, who was coaching Tara and not Nicole by then, had a lot of influence to lobby for Lipinski to get on the team.
Look at what Vincent did with only one full month of training. A clean quad (the cleanest 4S I have ever seen him do in comp) and 3As that looked like he hadn't missed any training time. It is 7 weeks to worlds. He will be ready.
ETA: we really should move this discussion about men to US Men's thread.
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- Sep 8, 2016
I just don’t know about this...... Starr must’ve impressed at the JW camp. But can her 3toe-3toe and omitted lutz and lack of a consistent flip get her in the top 10?
