2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[Bluediamonds09]

Congratulations to Sierra Venetta for a good sp. Jumps need work but the spins and overall presence on the ice was very good.

I don’t know how I’m gonna last the rest of the season not knowing anything about Ting or Hanna Harrell. I hope they get interviewed by Golden Skate or US FS and tell us their plans for next season.

 

[moonvine]

Congratulations to Sierra Venetta for a good sp. Jumps need work but the spins and overall presence on the ice was very good.

I don’t know how I’m gonna last the rest of the season not knowing anything about Ting or Hanna Harrell. I hope they get interviewed by Golden Skate or US FS and tell us their plans for next season.

I don’t really follow them but do they not have social media?

 

[natsulian]

Congratulations to Sierra Venetta for a good sp. Jumps need work but the spins and overall presence on the ice was very good.

I don’t know how I’m gonna last the rest of the season not knowing anything about Ting or Hanna Harrell. I hope they get interviewed by Golden Skate or US FS and tell us their plans for next season.

Hanna was recently interviewed by a podcast and she said that she is taking the rest of the season off. She hopes to fully heal her tendinitis and is excited for what next season brings. She is unsure about fully committing to seniors but is definitely doing Senior B's and working towards Worlds/4CC. Hanna's last update was from the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs a few days ago.

Ting is taking the rest of the season off and is slowly working on getting back to form. She wrote a detailed and uplifting message about her injury on her Instagram page and she said that this injury has only strengthened her love for figure skating and resolve to show the world what she's made of.

Best of luck to both ladies.

 

[Jammers]

You could have said almost the same thing about Bradie in September 2017. Things can turn around in a hurry in figure skating.

Problem for Ting is she is looking at a US Ladies field that will probably at the top be a lot stronger then the US Ladies were in Sept 2017. Bradie benefited from a Ladies field that suddenly got a lot weaker in the Olympic season with Gracie out Ashley in decline and Polina hurt and not a factor. That left Karen who wasn't exactly in prime shape and Mirai to contend with. Of course at the halfway point in the last Olympic cycle Ashley had just won a World medal and Gracie was one clean skate away from a World title or at least a medal to and no one saw her collapsing so yes things can change in a hurry. I don't see Alysa going anywhere unless she has a huge growth spurt and loses her jumps and Bradie has her consistency which will always keep her in the running. Getting that 3rd spot is important as the US Ladies get more depth and that could be the spot Mariah, Ting and someone else not on the radar yet will be fighting for.

 

[b-man]

The only talk was that about Joannie getting bronze is that if she skated the way she was capable of she would get bronze in reference to the high quality of her skating. Joannie was aked more about being undermarked for her skating.. It has been some Mirai fans trying to suggest because teh oympics ere in Canada or because Joannie's mom died people felt sorry for her. Sadly the real truth is did she deserve to win gold or silver. For some odd reason the Canadian threat in the last 30 or so years have managed to blend and be underrated skating - Manley, Chouinard, Rochette and Osmond were all extremely powerful, high amplitude and quality jumpers and spinners when on. They had power, speed, amplitude and grace and musicality - not ballerina like usually but none the less uscality and style. all the olympic medallist-Manley rochette andOsmond if anything seemed underappreciated and could or should have been a spothigher. Miraiin 2010was wonderful but Joannie had done more than enough quality and style wise to handily beat Mirai. Let's give her fair and due credit.

I thought the competition for bronze should have been close. Both gave great performances. Neither had a 3-3 in 2010, their jumps were similar. Mirai was the best spinner in Vancouver hands down. Mirai was much more flexible, could get into positions, lines and extensions that were superior. She also was faster in 2010 and showed less caution than later in her career. Mirai was way underscored in PCS, and in the short program. Her PCS scores in the short were all in the 6's, which was a joke. Neither were on a level of Asada or Kim. I took a survey in 2010 on the other forum, with about 65% thinking Rochette deserved bronze, Nagasu about 35%. So the majority agree with you. but a significant minority thought Nagasu deserved bronze.

As far as the passing of Joanne's mother, or the competition being in Canada affecting results, I'll offer the following. The broadcasters on American TV, who were Hamilton and the Canadian Sandra Bezic, said half of Canada was in mourning, wondering if Rochette would lose "her" medal. As if the results were predetermined. Of course the results were predetermined. If Rochette didn't get the bronze, there would have been 10,000 people booing the results, a look neither the ISU nor the IOC wanted in a premium event with hundreds of millions watching. Any judge that caused Rochette to lose "her" bronze and resulting in mass booing would probably never get another international assignment for years. Judges aren't stupid.

 

[LiamForeman]

Problem for Ting is she is looking at a US Ladies field that will probably at the top be a lot stronger then the US Ladies were in Sept 2017. Bradie benefited from a Ladies field that suddenly got a lot weaker in the Olympic season with Gracie out Ashley in decline and Polina hurt and not a factor. That left Karen who wasn't exactly in prime shape and Mirai to contend with. Of course at the halfway point in the last Olympic cycle Ashley had just won a World medal and Gracie was one clean skate away from a World title or at least a medal to and no one saw her collapsing so yes things can change in a hurry. I don't see Alysa going anywhere unless she has a huge growth spurt and loses her jumps and Bradie has her consistency which will always keep her in the running. Getting that 3rd spot is important as the US Ladies get more depth and that could be the spot Mariah, Ting and someone else not on the radar yet will be fighting for.

That's like the pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room, and I'm glad you mentioned that. Having been a skating fan for like 40 years, it seems like I'm in a twilight zone where anyone who has ever seriously followed skating should kind of predict what awaits Alysa. Tiny body, tiny jumps, not great technique but shows great promise, then BOOM. All gone once she grows. She might lose her jumps as early as this year. I certainly don't wish that upon her, but she is the perfect recurring example of the hyped baby ballerina who loses it all, like we've seen over and over again. I have more confidence in Gracie Gold making the Olympics than Alysa, unfortunately. Ting, too.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Alysa could go either way. I'm not an expert on body types so I can't analyse her specifically but although we've seen people lose their jumps completely we've also seen some who are fine.

Take Rika. She's 17 going on 18 and nothing. Didn't lose any jumps. I only started becoming obsessed with her since last year so I'm not sure if she went through some slump that I don't know about but her 3A is much more stable now.

Alysa could very well be just like this. Triples seem so easy for her.

 

[ManyCairns]

I thought the competition for bronze should have been close. Both gave great performances. Neither had a 3-3 in 2010, their jumps were similar. Mirai was the best spinner in Vancouver hands down. Mirai was much more flexible, could get into positions, lines and extensions that were superior. She also was faster in 2010 and showed less caution than later in her career. Mirai was way underscored in PCS, and in the short program. Her PCS scores in the short were all in the 6's, which was a joke. Neither were on a level of Asada or Kim. I took a survey in 2010 on the other forum, with about 65% thinking Rochette deserved bronze, Nagasu about 35%. So the majority agree with you. but a significant minority thought Nagasu deserved bronze.

...

IIRC Joannie had solid jumps, wasn't plagued by UR's like Mirai, and had a true lutz. I don't consider them similar in jumps, actually, at that time. But honestly, what does any of this have to do with the 2019-2020 ladies? I'm very guilty of responding to discussion offshoots, and have recently had them deleted by mods, and rightly so -- Maybe start a Mirai thread?

 

[Skater Boy]

I thought the competition for bronze should have been close. Both gave great performances. Neither had a 3-3 in 2010, their jumps were similar. Mirai was the best spinner in Vancouver hands down. Mirai was much more flexible, could get into positions, lines and extensions that were superior. She also was faster in 2010 and showed less caution than later in her career. Mirai was way underscored in PCS, and in the short program. Her PCS scores in the short were all in the 6's, which was a joke. Neither were on a level of Asada or Kim. I took a survey in 2010 on the other forum, with about 65% thinking Rochette deserved bronze, Nagasu about 35%. So the majority agree with you. but a significant minority thought Nagasu deserved bronze.

As far as the passing of Joanne's mother, or the competition being in Canada affecting results, I'll offer the following. The broadcasters on American TV, who were Hamilton and the Canadian Sandra Bezic, said half of Canada was in mourning, wondering if Rochette would lose "her" medal. As if the results were predetermined. Of course the results were predetermined. If Rochette didn't get the bronze, there would have been 10,000 people booing the results, a look neither the ISU nor the IOC wanted in a premium event with hundreds of millions watching. Any judge that caused Rochette to lose "her" bronze and resulting in mass booing would probably never get another international assignment for years. Judges aren't stupid.

There were many analysts who felt Mirai was not even close in pcs. Her Carmen was merely music in the background - she smiled through the performance liike it was a Miss America contest. And Joannie even with errrs on her jumps and spins and even her spiral was still one f the best. It was thought she should have pcs more like Mao and and Yuna. It was even close and even if you gave Mirai more points it would not be enough. Joannie had amplitude and power wih gace and beauty. Mirai was good but not outstanding. it was a low blow that people say it was in Canada and hence her medal or the death. Was Ashley Wagner's silver in Boston because it was in the states. It is more scandalous how Scott Hamilton won his OGM in 1984 when his skating was paling to others, In the end right or wrong in the opnion of some or many - Joannie won the bronze.

I don't think Canada has that much skating power as you suggst - the Americans, Russians and French (well before the fall of Didier - maybe).

But back to the American woman of today - it will be interesting if they can win three spots - and important because Alysa and Ting are on their way and there is going to be trouble next year!

 

[jenaj]

That's like the pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room, and I'm glad you mentioned that. Having been a skating fan for like 40 years, it seems like I'm in a twilight zone where anyone who has ever seriously followed skating should kind of predict what awaits Alysa. Tiny body, tiny jumps, not great technique but shows great promise, then BOOM. All gone once she grows. She might lose her jumps as early as this year. I certainly don't wish that upon her, but she is the perfect recurring example of the hyped baby ballerina who loses it all, like we've seen over and over again. I have more confidence in Gracie Gold making the Olympics than Alysa, unfortunately. Ting, too.

Who are you talking about? Tara Lipinski, who won the OGM? Michelle Kwan was a prodigy who also had a long career. Mao and Yuna are others. Alysa has already grown in height and has not lost her jumps. Her 3A is among the most consistent of any ladies skater.

 

[chuckm]

Alysa is not even close to 5'. She will not only grow taller, but inevitably, her body will change---and it's the bodily changes which impact the jumps most.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Problem for Ting is she is looking at a US Ladies field that will probably at the top be a lot stronger then the US Ladies were in Sept 2017.

At that time, we had a skater place 4th in the World six months before and another winning the WSM the previous season. Certainly Karen and Ashley didn't maintain that form, but nothing guarantees Alysa, Bradie, or Mariah will either.

 

[moonvine]

Who are you talking about? Tara Lipinski, who won the OGM? Michelle Kwan was a prodigy who also had a long career. Mao and Yuna are others. Alysa has already grown in height and has not lost her jumps. Her 3A is among the most consistent of any ladies skater.

Well, Tara also had hip surgery by what, 18? I do hope Alysa stays healthy.

 

[moonvine]

That's like the pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room, and I'm glad you mentioned that. Having been a skating fan for like 40 years, it seems like I'm in a twilight zone where anyone who has ever seriously followed skating should kind of predict what awaits Alysa. Tiny body, tiny jumps, not great technique but shows great promise, then BOOM. All gone once she grows. She might lose her jumps as early as this year. I certainly don't wish that upon her, but she is the perfect recurring example of the hyped baby ballerina who loses it all, like we've seen over and over again. I have more confidence in Gracie Gold making the Olympics than Alysa, unfortunately. Ting, too.

I don’t care who else makes it as long as my Gracie does to be honest.

 

[Happy Skates]

That's like the pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room, and I'm glad you mentioned that. Having been a skating fan for like 40 years, it seems like I'm in a twilight zone where anyone who has ever seriously followed skating should kind of predict what awaits Alysa. Tiny body, tiny jumps, not great technique but shows great promise, then BOOM. All gone once she grows. She might lose her jumps as early as this year. I certainly don't wish that upon her, but she is the perfect recurring example of the hyped baby ballerina who loses it all, like we've seen over and over again. I have more confidence in Gracie Gold making the Olympics than Alysa, unfortunately. Ting, too.

I get your point, but I think having more confidence in Gracie than Alysa making the Olympics is a bit extreme. Sure there are hyped up young stars that don't make it, but there are many that do. For every Caroline Zhang there's a Mirai, an Ashley Wagner, an Alina Zagitova or Evgenia Medvedeva who is hyped up as a young star but still ends up making and doing well at the Olympics. Plus, Alysa will be 16 come the Olympics, her first eligible year. If you look at recent cases of really young hyped up girls, this ends up being the year that they do best. Not to mention the fact that just from last year to this year, Alysa has gained significant height on all of her jumps, so its clear that her coaches are working on the technique with her.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I don't find Alysa's jumps small. It's another one of those false accusations lobbied against her.

Small jumps, can't perform, no other qualities but jumps that are apparently small and bad

She's improving every day and those triples are looking easier with time not harder.

 

[sheetz]

The thing with someone like Alysa is that she's landing triple axels and quads. Even if she lost those jumps I don't see any reason to believe she'd lose her other triples, and that would still make her one of the top US ladies.

 

[chuckm]

Sure, she'd be one of the top US ladies---but not one of the top ladies in the World. And she wouldn't necessarily be #1 in the US without quads and 3As.

 

[sheetz]

Sure, she'd be one of the top US ladies---but not one of the top ladies in the World. And she wouldn't necessarily be #1 in the US without quads and 3As.

But the point is that she would still be a favorite to make the Olympic team, when it's been suggested that she would be less likely to than either Gracie or Ting.

Personally, I don't believe Alysa will be able to consistently beat the top Russians, but that's a separate issue.

 

[natsulian]

That's like the pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room, and I'm glad you mentioned that. Having been a skating fan for like 40 years, it seems like I'm in a twilight zone where anyone who has ever seriously followed skating should kind of predict what awaits Alysa. Tiny body, tiny jumps, not great technique but shows great promise, then BOOM. All gone once she grows. She might lose her jumps as early as this year. I certainly don't wish that upon her, but she is the perfect recurring example of the hyped baby ballerina who loses it all, like we've seen over and over again. I have more confidence in Gracie Gold making the Olympics than Alysa, unfortunately. Ting, too.

Tiny jumps? In proportion to Alysa’s body, her jumps are not small. Maybe a little average but definitely not small. Not everyone can be a Gracie Gold or Tonya Harding. Look at this 3A+2T combo, linked below, from Nationals and despite her lack of speed, the distance and height she covers is decent. Nothing to write home about but not small either. I don’t understand why this narrative that Alysa has TINY jumps is still lingering when her jumps have been steadily improving. The only “tiny” jump Alysa still executes is the 3Lo.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8xRUVNJqiO/?igshid=5zes64f89qhh