Alexei YAGUDIN: “I’M COMING BACK”

[bekalc]

I don't agree with people saying because Asada couldn't skate in the Olympics, Yagudin shouldn't be reinstated. Quite frankly, Asada and Yagudin's cases are completely different situations.

I was against letting Asada skate in the Olympics because I felt that such a rule change would be unfair to Yu-na Kim.

The Korean federation was told that Yu-na would not be able to skate in the Olympics. Thus, they sent another skater to the Olympic qualifier and she failed to earn Korea a spot for the Olympics. Perhaps if Korea knew that if Yu-na did well in the senior GP series, the ISU would change their minds, they would have made some different decisions two years ago. That's why I felt sending Mao to the Olympics would have been grossly unfair, because if you are going to make a rule change, you need to make the same options available to everyone.

If they allow Yagudin to reinstate, and also make it possible for other skaters to reinstate, than how in anyways is this unfair?

It's two totally different situations. Not to mention, the reasons for the age limits is to protect younger skater's health.

 

[sillylionlove]

I will believe that he is coming back when I actually see it!!

I am a little skeptical here. Honestly, I like Alexei. However, I would like to see some new faces at the next Olympics!!

 

[antmanb]

ISU rule 102 lays out the definition of who is and is not eligible, and what kind of events/tours one can do without losing eligibility. Under this rule, definition of the ineligible skater can be for any of the following:

-Skating or officiating in a competition conducted by officials not on the approved list of the respective member or on the ISU approved list

-skating or officiating in an event not sanctioned by a member and/or the ISU

-skating or officiating without prior express authorization of the respective member, in any capacity of a skating competition, exhibition or tour in any of the sport disciplines of the ISU


Yagudin competed more than once in both Ice Wars AND World Team Challenge, both professional competitions NOT sanctioned by the ISU and officiated by NON-ISU judging. Thus, he has lost eligibility and would have to be reinstated.

But aren't all of the descriptions talking about the ISU and/or the member federation? Is it possible that Yags got the russian skating federation's ok before those events? Or that Piseev would be happy to say he did to allow Yags back in ?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Actually, I THINK - would have to check notes - that the event that cost Alexei his eligibility was an event in Canada that occured during the winter of 2003 - not long after he retired. I'm thinking it was in Western Canada.

However, that doesn't matter. Speedy would reinstate him if asked.

Curiosity is getting the better of me becuase of all theinside info you always have Zanzibar!! How are you sure that Speedy would re-instate Yags if he asked? Have you heard anything about this from Yags?

Ant <who also appreciates that you might not be able to say anything but thought i'd cheekily ask anyway!>

 

[antmanb]

I know of the 94. Who got reinstated in 95, 96 and why there were no more? I'm not looking for an opinion answer but something official.

I believe Midori Ito re-instated in 1995 or 1996 becuase she wanted to skate in Nagano. I believe that quite a few skaters re-instated in those years not to compete to perform other roles for which you need your elligibilty....i don't actually know what those are but i believe that there is quite a long list of re-instated athletes in every year that they were allowed to re-instate.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I know of the 94. Who got reinstated in 95, 96 and why there were no more? I'm not looking for an opinion answer but something official.

Also what are reasons for reinstatement. Can anyone say he/she feels like skating competition this year and would like a reinstatement? Kulic? Todd? Candeloro?

If the Rules had to be obeyed for Asada (who would have no pressure on her to skater her best) then if follows Rules can not be broken.

I'm not against Yagudin getting a reinstatement. I definitely want to know what the reason is for allowing a reinstatement. This way, in the future, skaters may be able to do the same. If it's a one-time exception it would be a dirty game play.

Arianne - Have you heard this is a done deal? that Alexi will get the reinstatement blessed by Cinquanta?

It will only be for 2009 because Plushenko will be the sole representative for Russia in Worlds 2008. unless you would like an exception to that Rule. too.

You all realize that there is no Amateur Skating and this could mean the end of Eligible Skating but then Cinquanta could say no more reinstatements after 2009

Joe

But Joe aren't you always claiming to be subvertive when it comes to the rules o figure skating? Don't just obey the rules and sit and nod in agreement, challenge them, criticise them and make them change! Vive la Resitance?

I personally think there is a difference between the age rule (which is supposedly in place to protect the young kids from being hurt attempting content required in senior competition). While i don't think the rule actually is successful in protecting the young athletes (and neither would element restrictions since they still practice more difficult things than they can legally do in competition juse like skaters at lower levels often perform much harder jumps than they can legally perform in the competition). But i think there is a difference between the age rule the elligibilty rules which are almost redundant now since, like others have said, what competitions/shows are actually still out there that make people lose their elligibility. I suspect that if Yags has to be re-instated to compete and he does actually get re-instated then it would be a general change applicable to all and not just him.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Whether Plushenko will be successful in his comeback (if he does indeed comeback) remains to be seen. If Yagudin is I have a large bridge up for sale.

Completely off topic but i've seen people use this phrase quite a few times recently and i don't understand - i get the intention of the meaning but i don't know what it refers to can anyone shed some light for me please.

Many thanks
Ant

 

[Mafke]

Ant,

The reference is to the Brooklyn Bridge in New York:

http://www.answers.com/topic/brooklyn-bridge

"The Brooklyn Bridge is mentioned in several common expressions about the sale of the bridge by one person to another (the bridge is actually public property). A person who “could sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge” is persuasive; a person who “tries to sell the Brooklyn Bridge” is extremely dishonest; a person who “would buy the Brooklyn Bridge” is gullible."

Legend has it that conmen used to regularly "sell" the bridge (parts or the whole) thing to gullible immigrants. The idea was that once they 'owned' the bridge they could collect tolls and become fabulously wealthy.

So "I have a large bridge up for sale" means "you'll believe anything".

 

[Hiara80]

so it's true? he 'll come back? i'm really happy!!!!! Alexei is absolutely my favourite skater, i really wish him all the best!

 

[Mathman]

If anyone is curious about what the official rules for reinstatement are, you can get it straight from the horse's mouth. ISU home -> Singles and pair skating -> ISU rules -> 2006 constitution and general regulations -> scroll down to page 77. Here is the direct link.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-177760-194978-110492-0-file,00.pdf

Rule 103. Reinstatement as an eligible person…

2. A person who is or has been ineligible may apply for reinstatement as a Skater only if such person had not violated Rule 102, paragraph 2(ii) and (iii).

3. (The reinstatement request must come for the skater’s National Federation).

4. The ISU Council, in approving a reinstatement request, may make such reinstatement effectively immediately or after such waiting period as it sees fit, depending upon the circumstances.

5. Reinstatements of ineligible persons for all national activities may be made as desired by the (National Federation) concerned.

Rule 102 was posted by Kasey in this thread. The most relevant parts are

Rule 102. Eligibility status…

2. A person becomes ineligible to participate in ISU activities and competitions by…

(ii) Skating or officiating in a competition conducted by Officials (judges, etc.) not on the approved list of the respective (National Federations) or on the ISU approved list.

(iii) Skating or officiating in an event not sanctioned by a (National Federation) and/or the ISU…

So, for instance, Plushenko cannot be reinstated because he participated in the Russian "Skating with the Stars" TV show, which was a judged competition. (I think Paula Abdul gave Plushenko and his movie star partner better marks than she gave Irina Slutskaya, LOL.)

In practice, I think the real rule is, the ISU Council can do what it wants.

 

[Tonichelle]

Ant,

The reference is to the Brooklyn Bridge in New York:

http://www.answers.com/topic/brooklyn-bridge

"The Brooklyn Bridge is mentioned in several common expressions about the sale of the bridge by one person to another (the bridge is actually public property). A person who “could sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge” is persuasive; a person who “tries to sell the Brooklyn Bridge” is extremely dishonest; a person who “would buy the Brooklyn Bridge” is gullible."

Legend has it that conmen used to regularly "sell" the bridge (parts or the whole) thing to gullible immigrants. The idea was that once they 'owned' the bridge they could collect tolls and become fabulously wealthy.

So "I have a large bridge up for sale" means "you'll believe anything".

It's similar to the "Ocean Front Property in Arizona" ... which I guess is a more western states expression

 

[antmanb]

Ant,

The reference is to the Brooklyn Bridge in New York:

http://www.answers.com/topic/brooklyn-bridge

"The Brooklyn Bridge is mentioned in several common expressions about the sale of the bridge by one person to another (the bridge is actually public property). A person who “could sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge” is persuasive; a person who “tries to sell the Brooklyn Bridge” is extremely dishonest; a person who “would buy the Brooklyn Bridge” is gullible."

Legend has it that conmen used to regularly "sell" the bridge (parts or the whole) thing to gullible immigrants. The idea was that once they 'owned' the bridge they could collect tolls and become fabulously wealthy.

So "I have a large bridge up for sale" means "you'll believe anything".

Thanks Mafke - i got the jist of the meaning but didn't get the reference and assumed it must be an American reference! That makes sense!

Thanks
Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

But Joe aren't you always claiming to be subvertive when it comes to the rules o figure skating? Don't just obey the rules and sit and nod in agreement, challenge them, criticise them and make them change! Vive la Resitance?

Well, not always, but certainly often. I think Rules are meant to be tweaked (semantics here). It's progress and hopefully fairness.

I don't feel happy with the word EXCEPTION to the Rule. And, I am not against Yagudin making a stab at returning to competitive skating under the Rules of the ISU. It's more than 5 years that he has been in an Eligible competition. It won't be easy and, there is that upcoming surgery. But for me I do not want him reinstated as an EXCEPTION to the Rule. I want the RULE changed for everyone.

If such action is taken on a change of rules, then we must prepare for a new format of Figure Skating Competition, with rules of skating and open to all who are properly accredited. A bit of work ahead, but there would be no controversy if Oksana and Midori want to skate in the Figure Skating Competition.

If the Rule is changed - no problem!! If an EXCEPTION to the Rule is given, there should be an open announcement on WHY such an exception was made.

Joe

 

[Zanzibar]

Curiosity is getting the better of me becuase of all theinside info you always have Zanzibar!! How are you sure that Speedy would re-instate Yags if he asked? Have you heard anything about this from Yags?

Ant <who also appreciates that you might not be able to say anything but thought i'd cheekily ask anyway!>

That's okay- I always appreciate a little cheekiness!

Unlike my usual self, I am basically staying out of the reinstatement argument, except to say that I think Speedy will definitely do it. Doesn't mean his Congress will agree with him (for instance, if I was the Federation that represented, oh, say Thomas Verner...I sure as heck wouldn't want the top Russian men getting back into the eligible game and I'd do whatever I could to prevent it). But Cinquanta has been favorable in his comments overall, and with the sad state of affairs regarding popularity of the sport, it really would not make sense to just change the rules - for everyone - and to do so also because there is no longer any "pro" world to speak of (in terms of competitive pro events).

As mentioned before, I'll have a story up on the IFS magazine website in the future that covers his experience here in New York last month, done through a series of interviews at that time, chronicling his time with the doctors, and what he went through.

But talk of a comeback is not what is relevant to me at this point in time, getting the ISU to agree to reinstatement and then demonstrating on the ice what you can do is what matters. Getting a new hip was the first in a series of hurdles that would have to be conquered if, again theoretically, he would make a return to competition. He has that new hip thankfully, so step #1 complete.

 

[Dodhiyel]

There is an amazing interview with Alexei on Yelena Vaitsekhovskaya's site at

http://www.velena.ru/translations/YAG_2007.html

In it, Yagudin talks about so many things regarding his surgery, his silence, his expectations and plans. It is a revelation!

In it, by the way, he says something lovely about Yevgeny Plushenko:

"If Zhenya Plushenko competes at the next Worlds, he’ll definitely get at least two spots."

Alexei himself mentions in the interview, needing a year to prepare himself, so that means to me that he is not planning on competing for this year's spot. Sorry that I did not c/p that sentence, but you can read it for yourselves .

I really, really like this interview!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Zanzibar - if the Rules are not changed for everyone, then there has to be an exception to the rules regarding Yagudin pending. Am I correct?

You seem to be in favor of giving Alexei that exception. No problem, neither am I.

What are the present standards for granting an exception? This is where I am not with all his fans, unless of course, the reason for the exception if valid.

Joe

 

[enlight78]

If anyone is curious about what the official rules for reinstatement are, you can get it straight from the horse's mouth. ISU home -> Singles and pair skating -> ISU rules -> 2006 constitution and general regulations -> scroll down to page 77. Here is the direct link.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-177760-194978-110492-0-file,00.pdf



Rule 102 was posted by Kasey in this thread. The most relevant parts are



So, for instance, Plushenko cannot be reinstated because he participated in the Russian "Skating with the Stars" TV show, which was a judged competition. (I think Paula Abdul gave Plushenko and his movie star partner better marks than she gave Irina Slutskaya, LOL.)

In practice, I think the real rule is, the ISU Council can do what it wants.

I agree. Does this mean a skater would have to ask isu or federations permission to enter a charity event that included some kind of judging?

 

[76olympics]

Thanks for the link to that translated interview, Dodhiyel! That was really detailed; evidently, this injury was a daily torment to him.

I have thought more about the reinstatement issue. I think it is a very personal decision, but it hasn't seemed to mean gold for most of those who opt for it. G and G are the only ones that I can think of and they were still quite young in Lillhammer. I wonder if Brian Boitano would have gone through it if he could have seen the outcome ? His problems in 1994 don't change my glowing opinion of him at all, but I sensed that it did bother him a little when he wrote about it in his book. I don't think it makes a bit of difference to MK's impact on the sport that she lacks an Olympic gold medal. So, perhaps, as Alexei and MK say, it is the competition that they like.

 

[Eeyora]

The ISU will allow Yagudin and Plushenko to come back if they know whats best for the sport. Yagudin and Plushenko will attract more fans and sell more tickets to their events. As for TV ratings. I am not sure how many non-fans know who Yagudin and Plushenko are but it would motivate me to learn how to set my VCR if I am not home during competitions. As for them not allowing the advancement of new stars. Stoijko, Candeloro and Urmanov broke through in 94 with Petrenko and Boitano competing. Both of whom did lose but did not completely embaress themselves. They still continued to sell tickets and garner ratings for pro competitions. Both sides won in that case.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think this is a question of winning a Worlds or Olys. It's a question of principal. mathman gave a link to the ISU regulations on such a request for reinstatement.

Should the rules apply? because it is possible to be reinstated according to the ISU. I don't think that it matters if it does encourage more viewers to the sport, and there is no way one can say that this will happen after this point in time.

Let the legality of this go through and hopefully, we get an explanation. Other retired skaters may be interested, and certainly more in the future.

Joe