Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?

[KOBOT37]

It's one thing to "tolerate" a difference in opinions/political choices, it is another completely different thing to "tolerate" the believe of someone that you as a person don't deserve to live based on something that is NOT your choice, but how you were born.

Believing somebody doesn't deserve to live for any reason is also an opinion

 

[Skatesocs]

What is it then? A compliment?

Lol. As if there isn't an entire array of terminology that doesn't fall into "insult" vs "compliment" dichotomy. It is abuse.

 

[Ulrica]

Believing somebody doesn't deserve to live for any reason is also an opinion

Not really, that's a fallacy. It would be the same as claiming that sexism or racism are "opinions".

 

[macy]

Russia is a free country where you can express any opinion without having your life destroyed. They don't tend to fire people as long as they do their job well.

I understand that, as is the US where i live- but many companies will fire you if you express opinions or values that don't line up with theirs, at least here they do. this is happening a lot with the BLM movement right now with many racists being exposed. companies aren't having it and will fire you without hesitation. i have also seen it with homophobia as well- you represent your company off the clock too.

i wouldn't say death wishes and repeatedly expressing personal homophobic views count as doing your job well.

 

[KOBOT37]

It would be the same as claiming that sexism or racism are "opinions".

from cambridge dictionary:


opinion
noun


a thought or belief about something or someone;

so yeah, believing someone, entire race or gender deserves to die because of whatever reason is an opinion.

 

[Skatesocs]

Now that is astonishing.

 

[Pantsu]

Calling a male skater “feminine” and no better than a woman? As though it were an insult.
Far from being brave, Yags looks like a whiny child when he says such a thing, and appears to have not progressed beyond a five year with schoolyard insults, and deserves no respect there so it’s true, he is only showing his own ignorance and lack of class.

But saying someone should die? Every Russian speaker that I know has said Yags said Adam was “Earth’s mistake” because of his support for trans rights. And because he was gay.

At this point, he has simply lost his ever loving mind.:whack:

That's cute, we have a bunch of people reading his mind and of course that is more than enough

 

[Fried]

from cambridge dictionary:


opinion
noun


a thought or belief about something or someone;

so yeah, believing someone, entire race or gender deserves to die because of whatever reason is an opinion.

In your opinion, the denial of the Holocaust or anti-semitic statements would fall under freedom of expression, right?

 

[Fried]

Russia and Russians are free folk biggrin, they don't kneel ( )

Nadeschda Tolokonnikowa and others can sing a song about it.

 

[Ulrica]

from cambridge dictionary:


opinion
noun


a thought or belief about something or someone;

so yeah, believing someone, entire race or gender deserves to die because of whatever reason is an opinion.

Actually, you are wrong per the European Parliament and the United Nations

https://www.ohchr.org/en/issues/discrimination/pages/bornfreeequalbooklet.aspx

https://europarl.europa.eu/the-president/en/newsroom/nazism-and-racism-are-not-opinions-but-crimes

https://www.refworld.org/docid/46cea5af2.html

 

[KOBOT37]

In your opinion, the denial of the Holocaust or anti-semitic statements would fall under freedom of expression, right?

According to my(and many other) country's law, yes, it does.

P.S If you are interested in Russia, it's very gray area, see case of Roman Yushkov.

 

[KOBOT37]

Actually, you are wrong per the European Parliament and the United Nations

https://www.ohchr.org/en/issues/discrimination/pages/bornfreeequalbooklet.aspx

https://europarl.europa.eu/the-president/en/newsroom/nazism-and-racism-are-not-opinions-but-crimes

https://www.refworld.org/docid/46cea5af2.html

European parliament? Why not cite north Korea's laws while we are at it?

and sure, in EU and UK your rights of freedom of expression aren't protected,even by the government.

Good for him Yagudin doesn't live in any of these.

 

[Ulrica]

European parliament? Why not cite north Korea's laws while we are at it?

and sure, in EU and UK your rights of freedom of expression aren't protected,even by the government.

Good for him Yagudin doesn't live in any of these.

He does live in a country that is part of the United Nations, however.

So, again, please use arguments based on reality.

 

[Skatesocs]

He does live in a country that is part of the United Nations, however.

So, again, please use arguments based on reality.

Do you sincerely believe you're engaged in a good faith debate?

 

[Tolstoj]

Russia is a free country where you can express any opinion without having your life destroyed. They don't tend to fire people as long as they do their job well.

As long you don't say anything bad about your president, and other taboo topics such as showing support for the LGBT community, etc.

Besides that is this an attempt to derail the thread?

This is not about Russia vs the World, it's about Yagudin insulting other athletes which got progressively worse over time.

 

[Fried]

@Ulrica
Thank you for your admirably calm and sober reasoning.

 

[KOBOT37]

You also live in a country like that,

nah, I don't.

regarding to Russia, unless you take it too far you can easily say whatever you want, including about Putin.

Average Ivan or Maria who work as a cashiers at shopping mall wont be fired over social media post, assuming they don't try really hard to be fired.

 

[Pantsu]

Yagudin apologized for the words addressed to Rippon

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBLX9oaIKoP/

https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1086023737.html

 

[Amei]

2002 Olympic Champion and 4 times World Champion Alexei Yagudin in his position as commentator for Channel One in Russia has had a recent history of personal attacks against other skaters, most of the time including inappropriate homophobic comments.

Here's what he recently had to say in an Instagram post (now removed) about Adam Rippon donating money to the Okra project.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZ7vr0BXgAAFoqn?format=jpg&name=large

Translation: "F*cik, Adam. When all of you will die? Earth’s mistake ."

Unfortunately this is only one of many comments he said or posted in the last year in particular (Jason Brown is often his main target), here's a summary of what he said in the past both on social media and during competitions:

1) Skate America 2019, Jason Brown is getting ready to perform his short program:
“Well, we can just borrow Jason’s time <and continue to talk about Dmitry Aliev’s skating> — it’s totally fine, ‘cause now he’s gonna only wave his legs in the air and… and nothing more, really.”

2) World Championships 2019, after Jason Brown’s short program: “His skating skills are amazing, he is a good skater, but nothing more. And thank God that apart from the short program we still have the free one, where without quad jumps he will finally be put in his proper place.”

3) World Championships 2019, Jason Brown’s free skating: “He is really like a glass of champagne with some lipstick on it” (a hint of his skating being “feminine”).

4) Free skating, Jason performed after Yuzuru Hanyu and Nathan Chen: “We really don’t care how Jason Brown will skate now. We can just sit back, relax, and watch it, since we had already have piece de resistance, and this is a sweet, soft ending of a banquet… like, you know, when you are already full, but there is still something on the table, and it’s just a pity to throw out.”

5) European Championships 2019, about Latvian athlete Deniss Vasiljevs short program: “You are a man, you compete in the men's singles discipline, so you have to jump <quads>. With content like that I’d lose junior world championships in 1997.”

6) World Championships 2019, after the free skate of Mikhail Kolyada, two-time Russian national champion: “I’d like to hear, ‘Forgive us, we’re ashamed’ from these people.”

7) “I don’t get it why people are suddenly standing up for Brown. He’s a f*gg*t who can’t even jump triples” — Mr. Yagudin reacted to this with the emoji picturing applause.

8) Instagram post: "Thank you everybody. Grand-Prix Final is very soon, we will support all of you. P. S. And thanks very much sergeyvoronov for "my favourite" Jason Brown didn't come to Grand Prix Final, or it would be a real SHAME."

9) Interview: "If I ever weigh a hundred kilos, I’ll shoot myself. It’s not a popular opinion these days, but I don’t think fat people are beautiful, and I’m convinced that you should fight your excess weight. Besides, it’s not even comfortable to be a fatty."

(Source)

How can ISU allow this sort of behaviour between negative attitudes towards worthy athletes and even down to personal attacks constantly violating professional ethics even during ISU competitions? one thing is to have an opinion about guys competing without performing quads (which we can agree or disagree), another is to attack so directly athletes for private matters.

This both damages the image of Channel One and ISU, it is sad to see Figure Skating competitions used as a platform to spread homophobia, hatred and fat shaming.

Last season Channel 1 was the only national TV-channel eligible to broadcast figure skating events in Russia, so for russian people they cannot even switch to another channel as he suggested in one of his comments.

Also worth noting that there is an ongoing petition against Yagudin, asking Russia management of sport broadcasting to remove him from his position of commentator.

https://www.change.org/p/первый-кан...нтирования-соревнований-по-фигурному-катанию?

What's your opinion on all of this?

For starters most of what you posted could certainly be considered to be "mean" but is not out of the norm of commentators and most was not attacking a skater's personal life, but the content they are putting on the ice

Secondly and most importantly the ISU should not open their mouths, because then every single time a commentator makes a "controversial" statement they are going to be expected to make a statement and if they don't there's going to be articles about a bias appearing, etc.

If you don't like Yagudin's commentary, appeal to his employer which is not the ISU to not have him commentate any longer.

 

[KOBOT37]

He does live in a country that is part of the United Nations, however.

So, again, please use arguments based on reality.

are you serious?

If you actually take United Nations human rights body seriously, lets end this discussion right here.

p.s BTW in less than a month, laws of Russian federation will officially overrule any international law