Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?

[Mathman]

Did Alexei really make a death threat? He could be arrested for that. But not for making filthy comments about Adam Rippon on Russian television channel 1.

It's tricky. He didn't say, "I am going to kill you." He did say, you deserve to die.

When political leeaders say things like this, they are upbraided, and for good reason, because some crazy person out there might say to himself, "The President just said that this person deserves to die. As a patriot, it is my duty to carry out this command."

I doubt that Yagudin has such dedicated and passionate followers, though.

 

[el henry]

The other poster already told you that was rude. Personally, i've seen such a reaction from English speaking people a few times before, always when they have no real arguments. They just jump straight to "you need to brush up on your English language and English invective skills."

So you know for sure what Yagudin meant when he wrote the message. Did any of you bother what his words mean in Russian - no. You simply assumed the worst, applied your interpretation and that was enough. Even the person who translated the message couldn't resist temptation to add "all of" part to the phrase, but who cares.
You see things Yagudin never said

I heard Yagudin's expression countless times, it shows only your weakness. That means all you can do is to sit and wait for when my life naturally ends. The most common reaction to that would be either laughing or ignoring
If you want to compare the insults. The one from from Rippon will definitely get more reaction. Most likely the person's face will have to endure some physical punishment after saying that "expression"

Every Russian speaker I have read on social media has confirmed that Yagudin was indeed wishing death on Adam and it was not some joke to be laughed off, but an insult to the LGBT+ community. In fact, I have seen some say that the phrase is not just “die”, but something stronger.
I don’t know what would be stronger:scratch3:

The remark about “fantasy” naturally led native English speakers, like me, to believe that a non-native speaker did not understand the commonness of the insult. No one thinks about fantasies or penetration when using this insult, it is simply a very forceful and crude way of saying, your opinions are worthless. So if someone keeps insisting on this interpretation, ETA: that is somehow meant literally, we are only trying to help by saying that’s not the correct interpretation. We are not trying to be rude, but helpful

We have responded. Someone might not like the response, but we’ve responded

 

[lucyrose]

So apparently holding skaters accountable for speaking out against homophobia, transphobia, and racism warrants getting your post deleted by mods? Golden skate, is this really the stance you want to take?

There is no doubt that ISU should at the very least make a public statement condemning what Yagudin said. While he is completely irrelevant to 99.999999999% of the world, he still does have a platform and benefits from the ISU.

I will state again that in the present climate (particularly in my home country, USA), I find it very disappointing that skaters like Nathan Chen, Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc have chosen to stay silent when such a prominent figure skater has made such offensive and hateful statements. I do know most of their followers have no clue who Yagudin is. At least they could unfollow him on Instagram. In a sport that it is so plagued by racism (that yes, even Asian skaters benefit from compared to BIPOC), it’s shameful to do anything but use your voice and platform to speak out.

 

[Mawwerg]

It's tricky. He didn't say, "I am going to kill you." He did say, you deserve to die.

When politicians say things like this, they are upbraided, and for good reason, because some crazy person out there might say to himself, "The President just said that this person deserves to die. As a patriot, it is my duty to carry out this command."

I doubt that Yagudin has such dedicated and passionate followers, though.

Actually he didn't say "You deserve to die". There was a question "Adam, when will you die?". Just to be exact.

 

[DawnQOT]

The ISU doesn’t have any power over any television station or their commentators in any country.
The most / best they are likely to be able to do is to ban Alexi in any capacity from all ISU events.
Homophobia appears to be ingrained in Russian culture. At this time it is futile to expect a ground swell of pressure from its citizens. Their skating legends are unlikely to speak out and may indeed share the same sentiments but be wiser than to share them on public forums.
Personally, I find Adam Rippon annoying, I like Guillaume Cizeron and I adore Eric Radford. I was an Alexi fan all through his skating career.
It doesn’t matter whether we like or dislike the person who says something or the person at whom it is aimed. Wrong is wrong. Hateful is hateful. Ignorant is ignorant.
The only thing we can do is to share our opinions with the ISU and ask that they exert any options they may have to sanction Alexi such as a blanket ban from attending ISU events whether in an official or private capacity.

 

[ancientpeas]

So apparently holding skaters accountable for speaking out against homophobia, transphobia, and racism warrants getting your post deleted by mods? Golden skate, is this really the stance you want to take?

There is no doubt that ISU should at the very least make a public statement condemning what Yagudin said. While he is completely irrelevant to 99.999999999% of the world, he still does have a platform and benefits from the ISU.

I will state again that in the present climate (particularly in my home country, USA), I find it very disappointing that skaters like Nathan Chen, Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc have chosen to stay silent when such a prominent figure skater has made such offensive and hateful statements. I do know most of their followers have no clue who Yagudin is. At least they could unfollow him on Instagram. In a sport that it is so plagued by racism (that yes, even Asian skaters benefit from compared to BIPOC), it’s shameful to do anything but use your voice and platform to speak out.

Check your PMs to explain why your post was moderated. It was not about the content but about the location of the comment.

 

[Mawwerg]

I don’t know what would be stronger:scratch3:

This verb usually is not used for people.

 

[Seven Sisters]

You know, Rippon has retired, so Yagudin is not going to be commentating on his competitive efforts any time soon. But Jason Brown, who has been the target of offensive comments from Yagudin for years, is still an active competitor.

I enjoy Brown’s skating and his lack of a quad doesn’t particularly bother me, because he has many other strengths. I think he is fine just the way he is. But just to aggravate Yagudin, I hope he busts out a spectacular quad in some competition in Russia next year, when Yagudin is doing the commentating. I want to hear him explain that

 

[lobo]

In a sport that it is so plagued by racism (that yes, even Asian skaters benefit from compared to BIPOC)

What do you mean?

 

[Tolstoj]

I find it very disappointing that skaters like Nathan Chen, Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc have chosen to stay silent when such a prominent figure skater has made such offensive and hateful statements.

Well it's not that you can force people to speak, though i did see Jeffrey Buttle, Evgenia Medvedeva and Maxim Trankov and maybe others (i haven't checked all the comments) praising Adam's response on Instagram which was nice.

 

[macy]

Actually he didn't say "You deserve to die". There was a question "Adam, when will you die?". Just to be exact.

these statements are very close to having the same meaning. asking when will you die interprets as anticipating his death, and are wishing it to be soon. in other words, a death wish. no doubt you also think someone deserves to die if you are wishing death upon them.

Alexei has over 182,000 followers on instagram. when you are a public figure in any capacity and have a following that large, it is your responsibility to watch what you say and not act out of childish impulse and "emotion" like he did. this is common sense. he did not think about the consequences of his actions whatsoever and there is no excuse for it. he should be embarrassed.

he absolutely deserved every ounce of backlash and the way Adam responded.

 

[Mathman]

What do you mean?

BIPOC means Black, Indigenous, People of Color.

 

[lobo]

BIPOC means Black, Indiginous, People of Color.

No, what do you mean saying 'sport that it is so plagued by racism'? What racism? How do you see Asian (or any other) skaters benefitting from that?

 

[Mathman]

The most / best they are likely to be able to do is to ban Alexi in any capacity from all ISU events.

That is the part that I am trying to get a handle on. Can the ISU ban people from ISU events? ISU competitions are open to the public. Anyone can buy a ticket. If the ISU says, you can attend the event but you can't commentate, can the broadcasting source that paid money for the right to broadcast the event just say, nuts to you, ISU?

Can the ISU issue a directive forbidding skaters from doing interviews with Yagudin? What if the skater says, I will do an interview with Yagudin anyway, never mind what the ISU says?

Yagudin is not an employee, representative, or spokesperson for the ISU. Does the ISU have any lverage at all over Yagudin's behavior?

 

[Skatesocs]

No, what do you mean saying 'sport that it is so plagued by racism'? What racism? How do you see Asian (or any other) skaters benefitting from that?

They said Asians compared to BIPOC. Which is likely true.

That is the part that I am trying to get a handle on. Can the ISU ban people from ISU events? ISU competitions are open to the public. Anyone can buy a ticket. If the ISU says, you can attend the event but you can't commentate, can the broadcasting source that paid money for the right to broadcast the event just say, nuts to you, ISU?

Can the ISU issue a directive forbidding skaters from doing interviews with Yagudin? What if the skater says, I will do an interview with Yagudin anyway, never mind what the ISU says?

Yagudin is not an employee, representative, or spokesperson for the ISU. Does the ISU have any lverage at all over Yagudin's behavior?

Hadn't thought of it like this. But I guess it's simply theoretical to me, since I don't think The ISU should take any action at all.

If it weren't theoretical, I think the ISU can indeed ban him from the commentary box, and the media zones, and the post competition press. But it can't ban him from doing interviews outside of those? If he wanted to post a YT vlog from the stands for instance, I don't see how anyone can stop him.

 

[Tavi...]

That is the part that I am trying to get a handle on. Can the ISU ban people from ISU events? ISU competitions are open to the public. Anyone can buy a ticket. If the ISU says, you can attend the event but you can't commentate, can the broadcasting source that paid money for the right to broadcast the event just say, nuts to you, ISU?

Can the ISU issue a directive forbidding skaters from doing interviews with Yagudin? What if the skater says, I will do an interview with Yagudin anyway, never mind what the ISU says?

Yagudin is not an employee, representative, or spokesperson for the ISU. Does the ISU have any lverage at all over Yagudin's behavior?

You can’t really work that out for yourself by reading this thread though. There are a lot of very authoritative opinions being voiced in here, but that’s all they are - opinions. Truthfully, the only way to know exactly what the ISU can and cannot do is to read the ISU charter and communications, IOC / other rules (to the extent they’re incorporated or applicable) and then consider any relevant ISU contracts.

 

[TallyT]

So apparently holding skaters accountable for speaking out against homophobia, transphobia, and racism warrants getting your post deleted by mods? Golden skate, is this really the stance you want to take?

There is no doubt that ISU should at the very least make a public statement condemning what Yagudin said. While he is completely irrelevant to 99.999999999% of the world, he still does have a platform and benefits from the ISU.

I will state again that in the present climate (particularly in my home country, USA), I find it very disappointing that skaters like Nathan Chen, Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc have chosen to stay silent when such a prominent figure skater has made such offensive and hateful statements. I do know most of their followers have no clue who Yagudin is. At least they could unfollow him on Instagram. In a sport that it is so plagued by racism (that yes, even Asian skaters benefit from compared to BIPOC), it’s shameful to do anything but use your voice and platform to speak out.

I wouldn't insist that they publicly comment - it would be nice, but sports stars, even champions, are free to choose what they say and you remember how many of the American ones were pro-Coughlin on social media, at least at first? - but from what I gather some of them still follow Yagudin on sm, which is an overt tick of approval in the public's eyes, so I hope once skaters realise what they are passively endorsing... they'll take the moment or two to stop.

I enjoy Brown’s skating and his lack of a quad doesn’t particularly bother me, because he has many other strengths. I think he is fine just the way he is. But just to aggravate Yagudin, I hope he busts out a spectacular quad in some competition in Russia next year, when Yagudin is doing the commentating. I want to hear him explain that

I'm feeling mean enough to hope that Jason beats the Russian quadsters next year (not that I don't want them to do well, I do, especially a couple I am fond of. I just want Jason to do better). With or without quads.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm feeling mean enough to hope that Jason beats the Russian quadsters next year (not that I don't want them to do well, I do, especially a couple I am fond of. I just want Jason to do better). With or without quads.

To prove what? Or to make Yagudin unhappy?

My hopes are much more modest - just to have a normal season.

 

[TallyT]

To prove what? Or to make Yagudin unhappy?

Oh for Jason's sake and to prove idiotic excuses for bigotry... idiotic. As I said earlier in the thread, living well is the best revenge.

I can't say I care how Yagudin feels one way or t'other.

 

[el henry]

To prove what? Or to make Yagudin unhappy?

My hopes are much more modest - just to have a normal season.

I can't speak for TallyT.

For me, since Yagudin issues childish taunts at the level of a five year old's thinking, such as calling a skater "feminine" and should be wearing lipstick, and something about champagne?.... something no adult man over the age of 10 would use as an insult.

I would like Jason to land a quad in terms of Yagudin because perhaps that will break through to someone whose thought processes appear not to have progressed beyond schoolyard taunts (and bad schoolyard taunts at that).

And of course, for myself because I want Jason to score even better than he does, as that would make Jason happy

But I agree, I would just like any kind of season. May we be safe enough to do so

ETA: And I see Tally answered before me, because I always say in 40 words what could be said in ten