Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?

[Scott512]

Harsh of true? I think you can find whatever it is you're looking for on ANY message board. I prefer to usually stay in threads that are positive, informative, and sometimes fun. I only came into this one because Alexei used to be one of my favorite skaters - operative words USED TO BE. But I think that when a thread reaches a certain number of pages and it ceases to be informative, then it oozes into contention among the posters. I'm not sure what they're looking for or what their expectations are by continuing to rehash. I don't find Golden Skate to be a verbal den of iniquity. If someone feels that way then choose another place to hang out. Alexei needs to be dealt with for sure. Who that responsibility falls to will be interesting. But as I said before, if you want to contribute to that - write letters!! Let the people that have the power to deal with him know what skating fans are thinking. On the same note, I dont' think it's the responsibility of past or present figure skaters to lead that charge. Most of them right now are trying to salvage whatever they can out of whatever this season is going to be. Their job is to skate!!

p.s. I don't find it surprising at all that Plushenko agreed with Adam. There has never been any love lost between him and Yagudin. EVER.

Well plushenko had the better career overall especially in terms of length but Yagudin beat him head-to-head for Olympic gold in Salt Lake City in 2002 and he beat plushenko for a couple of world gold medals as well. Nothing changes that even all the sketchy and sometimes hateful and hurtful comments Alexei has said over the years. I hope he has finally learned his lesson to analyze the skating not, comment hatefully or hurtfully.

The censorship and moderation on this entire forum makes no sense to me. How is this place so heavily moderated yet way more argumentative and angry than any other forum? The moderators pick and choose which posts fall under the category of "off topic". If your're going to delete my posts why not Skatesosc? Double standard is unreal.

Interesting point. But you know the deal. Social media is like this as well.

 

[TallyT]

Well plushenko had the better career overall especially in terms of length but Yagudin beat him head-to-head for Olympic gold in Salt Lake City in 2002 and he beat plushenko for a couple of world gold medals as well. Nothing changes that even all the sketchy and sometimes hateful and hurtful comments Alexei has said over the years.

Though I would hazard a guess that - outside fannish circles and probably within the more casual ones - Plushenko is the more famous of the two. Length of career, Olys and that intangible thing the ISU can only wish it could manufacture do count.

And we all know Plushy has his side too.

I hope he has finally learned his lesson to analyze the skating not, comment hatefully or hurtfully.

Nah, they never do. A limp faux-apology and his followers both in skating and on social media will be more than happy to go along with whatever he next comes out with (voice of cynical and disenchanted experience talking). And to be fair, while I do think public figures in public forums should be careful with even passive acceptance of the ugly, I also think with many of them - certainly the ones who follow hundreds or thousands fairly meaninglessly - it's more a corporate thing probably run by their managers/agents. If following Yagudin is seen as bad image-wise... it will be quietly dropped.

We don't know these people, only what they pick and choose - sometimes stupidly - to show us. This is true even of the seemingly wide open and ingenuous like Jason or brassy loud personalities like Adam Rippon. Why Yagudin chooses to think the world even wants to see that side of him is a mystery...

 

[plushyfan]

And we all know Plushy has his side too.

What do you wanted to say? I don't understand

 

[noskates]

 

[anonymoose_au]

Don't judge too early! Nathan follows 2000 people. Maybe he didn't see the posts. He eats, learns, trains , and sleeps.

I agree. I had absolutely no idea this happened until coming to this board a couple of days back and I follow Adam and used to follow Yagudin on Instagram. I check Instagram every day, but posts don't appear in chronological order there (which is really irritating), so I just missed the whole thing. Although, I did see Adam's initial post about donating to the charity.

Yagudin also posted his horrible comments in Russian and as a story which you can't Google Translate, so unless Nathan knows Russian how would he even know what it said if he did see it?

For all we know Nathan is somewhere without internet access or super busy.

Why are we picking on him anyway? I saw quite a few skaters applauding Adam's post in response, but as far as I could see (before unfollowing the guy) none of them have replied to Yagudin on one of his posts calling him out. Are we going to condemn them for not doing that?

 

[mrrice]

What do you wanted to say? I don't understand

I agree that Yags caught lightening in a bottle in 2002. However, I did watch them during practice, warm up and competition skates at Worlds in 2001 and IMO, Plushy was the better skater. He was certainly faster than Alexei. Plushy was also VERY good to his fans which were everywhere.

 

[alexaa]

I agree. I had absolutely no idea this happened until coming to this board a couple of days back and I follow Adam and used to follow Yagudin on Instagram. I check Instagram every day, but posts don't appear in chronological order there (which is really irritating), so I just missed the whole thing. Although, I did see Adam's initial post about donating to the charity.

Yagudin also posted his horrible comments in Russian and as a story which you can't Google Translate, so unless Nathan knows Russian how would he even know what it said if he did see it?

For all we know Nathan is somewhere without internet access or super busy.

Why are we picking on him anyway? I saw quite a few skaters applauding Adam's post in response, but as far as I could see (before unfollowing the guy) none of them have replied to Yagudin on one of his posts calling him out. Are we going to condemn them for not doing that?

I just checked, Nathan is following 2093 accounts. Yagudin deleted his post and IG story not long after posting. The Skating Lessons got the screenshots and posted with translation. Nathan doesn’t follow TSL. The apology IG post is there, but all in Russian. And if you take a good look at Adam’s IG, can you find Nathan liked or commented in any of his posts in the past one or two years? It is not that they are close, it is my impression that that he seldom interacts with Ashley and Adam with their posts. He would @ Adam in his own post sometimes. It is not their way of communicating with each other. Brezina also didn’t like or comment Adam’s post and he also follows Yagudin, does this mean he is not on Adam’s side? It is just not the way they interact with each other.

Moreover, if you look at usfigureskating’s account, there were so many Nathan related posts, very few of those posts got any responses from him.

As energetic as he is, there are only so many things you can follow each day, with training, school, he is still taking summer class, hobbies, how would you expect a person to stay on top of everything on social media?

 

[plushyfan]

I agree that Yags caught lightening in a bottle in 2002. However, I did watch them during practice, warm up and competition skates at Worlds in 2001 and IMO, Plushy was the better skater. He was certainly faster than Alexei. Plushy was also VERY good to his fans which were everywhere.

I understand TallyT now. He has many faults , of course.

 

[TallyT]

I understand TallyT now. He has many faults , of course.

Everyone does. We all individually have to decide which we can deal with in someone we look up to.

 

[Mathman]

I agree that Yags caught lightening in a bottle in 2002. However, I did watch them during practice, warm up and competition skates at Worlds in 2001 and IMO, Plushy was the better skater. He was certainly faster than Alexei. Plushy was also VERY good to his fans which were everywhere.

Plushenko performed much better than Yagudin at 2001 worlds, and won easily. (He maybe should have won in 1999 as well.) This set a fire under Alexei. Leading up to the 2002 Olympics he doubled down on his training, lost weight, and came to Salt Lake City in fighting shape.

In Yagudin's best years (1998-2002) the Internet was just taking its first baby steps toward becoming the fire-breathing monster that it is now. Golden Skate and FSU were fairly new, but individual skaters had their own on-line fan clubs. I think that Yagudin was thre most popular skater on the Internet in those days, and probably the only one who had a truly international following.

My impression, seeing them both live, was that Yagudin was an impish charmer, while there was something regal about Plushenko even back then.

 

[karne]

p.s. I don't find it surprising at all that Plushenko agreed with Adam. There has never been any love lost between him and Yagudin. EVER.

In fairness, Plushenko's agreement may not be solely due to the fact Yagudin said it. Plushenko was literally the first high-profile Russian sportsman to sign the petition against Putin's hateful anti-LGBTQIA+ laws (the "gay propaganda" law), and held a press conference encouraging other Russians to sign. He's used his profile to support LGBTQIA+ rights before.

 

[plushyfan]

. I think that Yagudin was thre most popular skater on the Internet in those days, and probably the only one who had a truly international following.

I don't want to start this debate I believe Yagudin was more popular in US and N-A, these forums are international but the posters came mostly from there. Plushenko was/is more popular in Eu and Japan!!!!!, of course! Many his fans followed him all over the world.Later in Japan Plushenko was the most popular foreign athlete not skater (and he was on the very best place as the most sexy ), he beat Sharapova..And he was the most popular Russian, too.(2. Putin )

 

[plushyfan]

In fairness, Plushenko's agreement may not be solely due to the fact Yagudin said it. Plushenko was literally the first high-profile Russian sportsman to sign the petition against Putin's hateful anti-LGBTQIA+ laws (the "gay propaganda" law), and held a press conference encouraging other Russians to sign. He's used his profile to support LGBTQIA+ rights before.

Yes. He supported the gays in the CNN interview in 2014. Many Russians mocked him because of it. He invited Johnny Weir to his shows in 2014 and 2015. Since 2016 his guest skater from Canada is Emanuel Sandhu and (Elladj many times) . In 2016 Plush was a great host of Eman they went on a trip in Russia together

But there is a shadow Plush had a picture with Kadyrov after we learned he is a homophobe ( I don't care about the previous Plushy's show wich was held in Chechnya in 2016. Emanuel , Elladj, Joubert, Verner also were there. ) Kadyrov is Yana's friend since 2005 and she didn't believe what the western media write about Kadyrov. "That is a great person who did so much for Russia, stopped the war and the chechen terrorist attacks in Russia." And other stupidites. Kadyrov is a highly respected and popular person in Russia. So I'm not totally happy!!! I hate it!:dev2:

But Plushy loves Jason skating, probably you remember the story from 2014. https://sports.yahoo.com/news/jason...kHnjPU9DbcTBBLZLI3EbNFu4b-WwyY5AU6W2y81vsXir1

"Plushenko became a huge fan of Brown after being shown an online video of the youngster performing at the U.S. Championships in Boston last month. He wasn't alone, either. Brown's "Riverdance" performance in the long program generated more than 3.9 million views online.

"It is a really cool relationship," Brown said. "I respect him so much and to know that he respects me and what I do is huge as well.

"[Plushenko] has been so nice to me and so supportive over the past week. When we had team practice he came up to me and said, 'I am such a huge fan of yours.' I was like, 'What? No, no, no, no, like I am such a huge fan of yours.' And I was like, 'You're amazing' and he's like, 'No, you're amazing' – and you know like right off the bat I was so relaxed.

"He is such an incredible person and that meant so much to me and that support instantly made me feel calm from the second I stepped on the ice."

Finally: I don't know what Plushy thinks about the trans people. But he won't talk about it and won't post about it. Sure. I'm waiting for his support verbally, too. But he won't . In an interview his wife said if their son would be gay they want to Sasha live in another country.

 

[noskates]

I don't think this thread is about Plushenko. The rivalry between him and Yagudin had more to do with Mishkin than anything else. Who was best is a moot point right now. They were both outstanding skaters and both had different styles. Both excelled at their sport and both reaped the rewards. It really doesn't matter because it was a long time ago. If I remember correctly, Yags left Mishkin and went to Tarasova because he was not getting the attention from his coach because of Plushenko. Please don't derail the thread by going back over very OLD history. The fact is - Yagudin has made some terrible remarks about other skaters and shouldn't get away with it.

 

[Scott512]

Though I would hazard a guess that - outside fannish circles and probably within the more casual ones - Plushenko is the more famous of the two. Length of career, Olys and that intangible thing the ISU can only wish it could manufacture do count.

And we all know Plushy has his side too.



Nah, they never do. A limp faux-apology and his followers both in skating and on social media will be more than happy to go along with whatever he next comes out with (voice of cynical and disenchanted experience talking). And to be fair, while I do think public figures in public forums should be careful with even passive acceptance of the ugly, I also think with many of them - certainly the ones who follow hundreds or thousands fairly meaninglessly - it's more a corporate thing probably run by their managers/agents. If following Yagudin is seen as bad image-wise... it will be quietly dropped.

We don't know these people, only what they pick and choose - sometimes stupidly - to show us. This is true even of the seemingly wide open and ingenuous like Jason or brassy loud personalities like Adam Rippon. Why Yagudin chooses to think the world even wants to see that side of him is a mystery...

It is a mystery but it's no mystery that this great Olympic champion has a major flaw in his mind and heart and I don't know if that can be changed. His wife and daughters if the daughters are old enough must be embarrassed and mortified it what their father has said . Apologizing is a start and he needs to continue to apologize even if people think it's a hollow apology. He should reiterate that he wants no harm for anyone and that he's sorry he caused this furor. Alexei Yagudin has truthfully done irreparable damage to himself. Why I think it is is because he thought he was an untouchable Olympic and World Champion and a legend in his sport. Alexei found out differently and he needs to stop embarrassing his fans and his family with such hurtful and hateful comments.

 

[Pantsu]

It is a mystery but it's no mystery that this great Olympic champion has a major flaw in his mind and heart and I don't know if that can be changed. His wife and daughters if the daughters are old enough must be embarrassed and mortified it what their father has said . Apologizing is a start and he needs to continue to apologize even if people think it's a hollow apology. He should reiterate that he wants no harm for anyone and that he's sorry he caused this furor. Alexei Yagudin has truthfully done irreparable damage to himself. Why I think it is is because he thought he was an untouchable Olympic and World Champion and a legend in his sport. Alexei found out differently and he needs to stop embarrassing his fans and his family with such hurtful and hateful comments.

I suggest you not to speak about his little daughters, at all
Yagudin was and is an Olympic and World champion and a living legend unlike Rippon
Rippon's tirade actually makes sense if you look up his achievements and compare them to Yagudin's
Poor Adam

 

[el henry]

I suggest you not to speak about his little daughters, at all
Yagudin was and is an Olympic and World champion and a living legend unlike Rippon
Rippon's tirade actually makes sense if you look up his achievements and compare them to Yagudin's
Poor Adam

Adam Rippon is successful and well known in the US. (not saying compared to Brad Pitt, but compared to the average figure skater, one of the most well-known).
He has established a career outside of skating and appears to be moving forward with it. Adam's sense of self-worth at the point has little to do with any of his skating accomplishments, and in fact, has exceeded them. And he is far far far more famous in the US, where he makes his living, than Alexei. (and I am sure it is vice versa in Russia )

No need to feel sorry for him, he's doing quite well.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Adam Rippon is successful and well known in the US. (not saying compared to Brad Pitt, but compared to the average figure skater, one of the most well-known).
He has established a career outside of skating and appears to be moving forward with it. Adam's sense of self-worth at the point has little to do with any of his skating accomplishments, and in fact, has exceeded them. And he is far far far more famous in the US, where he makes his living, than Alexei. (and I am sure it is vice versa in Russia )

No need to feel sorry for him, he's doing quite well.

:agree:

 

[Scott512]

I suggest you not to speak about his little daughters, at all
Yagudin was and is an Olympic and World champion and a living legend unlike Rippon
Rippon's tirade actually makes sense if you look up his achievements and compare them to Yagudin's
Poor Adam

Well then Alexei needs to think more about his little daughters and how what he says as a very powerful International voice could affect them.

As far as figure skating goes there's no doubt he's an all-time great with an Olympic gold medal and four World Championships. Alexei has a long life ahead of him and I hope he makes the most of it. Not making out rageous anti gay comments would help.

 

[Amei]

The fact that a thread questioning if the ISU should should take action against Yagudin’s actions needed to be made really says so much. How is it even a question if they should do something?

Couple of reasons why people are questioning about why the ISU should be cautious about taking action (if they even can?) or making a statement condemning Yagudin's statement, if at all:

It opens Pandora's box:

- What do they have to come out and make a statement condemning? And who is the person(s) that decides what they need to come out against? The ISU does not exist solely in 1 culture, so they are going to get stuck what's offensive to 1 culture is going to be a societal norm for another.

- Who should they come out against whenever a controversial statement is made? Yagudin is not an employee of the ISU, he's a commentator for a Russian TV channel; if Russian channels are like the US broadcasts he's not even attending most of the competitions but in a studio watching a live stream of the performances. So who broadcasters, former skaters, former coaches, current skaters, current coaches, etc? Where's the line?

- What do they then have to scour to make sure they don't need to come out condemning something? Yagudin said something on his personal social media page - how many social media sites are there that they would have to monitor?