2020-21 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[karne]

Well, I am definitely pleased with both of Jason's new programs. That SP is going to be out-of-this-world when it's got some mileage! It's incredibly fast and intense without being frantic or overwhelming and really shows off his power and speed. It didn't instantly grab me as being totally besotted with it like his last two - but it's definitely one I like. Here's hoping the costume won't be OTT!

Slaughter is spectacular. It's such a different genre from Schindler's List but of course, that's no problem for Jason. It really combines the best of his gorgeous lines and movement with his expansive presentation ability. It's a little more simplistic than Schindler's was at this point but I'm sure we'll see improvements through the year.

His jumps look good and secure and he looks strong and confident. God, I hope we get to see this in full flight at some point.

 

[Seren]

Jason continues to prove he is the master of the short program. I adore this already.

While I am not the biggest fan of Nathan (don't get me wrong, I think his talent is incredible, his skating just doesn't move me the same way) I really like his SP. It's such an interesting direction for him. And that 3A is the best I've ever seen from him.

There is a lot to look forward to with the US men.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Nathan has a strong yet somewhat interior personality on the ice that is yet still developing. If you'd followed Nathan in juniors, you would realize that he has a lot of range. He can do classical, modern, rock, pop and jazz with the greatest of ease. But his skating is informed by his superb technique. He interprets music extremely well, and he has an artistic soul that he expresses within a unique movement style that doesn't apparently grab everyone the same way. He's cool rather than soulfully emotional and expansive in his skating in the way that Jason is.

 

[Bookseller]

^^ Nathan has a strong yet somewhat interior personality on the ice that is yet still developing. If you'd followed Nathan in juniors, you would realize that he has a lot of range. He can do classical, modern, rock, pop and jazz with the greatest of ease. But his skating is informed by his superb technique. He interprets music extremely well, and he has an artistic soul that he expresses within a unique movement style that doesn't apparently grab everyone the same way. He's cool rather than soulfully emotional and expansive in his skating in the way that Jason is.

They are both, in very different, perhaps opposite ways, masters of what they do best and transformative. Nathan's jumps are amazing. He is showing clearly in these two programs that he has mastery of edges, skating skills, musicality and artistic expression. He is a cool character, very introverted, but able to share. Jason skates to share his love with the audience. He is incredibly expressive and it's not acting. It's Jason. His spins are incredible and his footwork sequences are compelling in their technique and how well he integrates them into the program. And his jumps are good! When Jason has fully engaged with his choreography, there are no wasted or superfluous movements. Every second counts and builds the program. He is theatrical from his soul and he has to share what he's feeling. Both of them express the best of what skating can be and both have unique talents that no one else in skating has. There is no one else like Jason. There is no one else like Nathan. And I'll go further and say that there is no one else like Yuzu. They are all unique.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Oh I definitely agree with your take @Bookseller. Both Jason and Nathan are rare and unique in their extraordinary talents and abilities. For sure, Nathan reaches out emotionally but in a very cool, somewhat controlled and collected way that is no less affecting for viewers who can perceive the nuances of Nathan's aesthetic, which again is very much grounded in superb, above-average technique and a sublime musicality.

Nathan's cool, controlled vibe and technique probably was influenced by his early training in ballet. But it's also part of his personality. There's a lot of depths to Nathan that he doesn't always show on the surface. But for those who have followed him from a young age, we understand his fiery determination and the subtle nuances of his gestures and movement quality over the ice. He has previously had a tendency to hold his head down a bit or appear somewhat closed off expression-wise, partly due to concentrating on technical aspects maybe. Seemingly, in working with great choreographers over recent years, Nathan has opened up more and become a bit more fluid in expressing his unique movement style which is difficult to pinpoint or categorize. 'Nathan Unbound and Unfettered,' but still cool, calm and controlled.

Your word 'transformative,' certainly applies so well to both Jason's and Nathan's skating. I would also add 'influential, groundbreaking, and unforgettable.' How lucky we are to witness the trajectory of both their careers.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

... There is no one else like Jason. There is no one else like Nathan. And I'll go further and say that there is no one else like Yuzu. They are all unique.

Ah, true! Thanks for pointing this out. Although Yuzu when he first came up to seniors was compared a lot in his movement style and costumes with Johnny Weir, but that's really where the comparisons end (aside from Yuzu skating to Johnny's and Plushy's music, and Johnny designed some of Yuzu's costumes). Yuzu idolizes Johnny most of all, but also Plushy because Yuzu has indicated that he was influenced as a young skater by both. Still, Yuzu is like an alien from another planet, with supernatural physical attributes and abilities. He can't be precisely pinned down. For me, Yuzu is driven by his out-of-this-world technical mastery which is rare and one-of-a-kind. Only Javi Fernandez, to my knowledge, exhibited a similar suspension in the air quality on quad jumps that no one else in the sport possesses, at least that I've noticed. ETA: While Yuzu is aspirational artistically, I do not think he quite reaches the heights of being a transformative artist. Denis Ten was much more a master of technique and artistry than Yuzu, but Ten had bad luck with injuries which adversely impacted his competitive accomplishments.

What Yuzu, Jason, and Nathan all possess is tremendous desire, self-belief and courage, combined with their rare abilities. All three will do whatever it takes to achieve their competitive goals and it's palpable how much they all deeply love figure skating.

Meanwhile, Plushy was driven mostly to master the jumps and he somewhat neglected his very capable artistic side. Plushy also had an unbroken strength of will and determination competitively. Johnny was uniquely talented and precocious, but not fully motivated to be the best. He allowed himself to be distracted from achieving his full potential. But Johnny had mesmerizing, innate qualities. He didn't seem to fully believe in his talent though.

 

[Seren]

^^ Nathan has a strong yet somewhat interior personality on the ice that is yet still developing. If you'd followed Nathan in juniors, you would realize that he has a lot of range. He can do classical, modern, rock, pop and jazz with the greatest of ease. But his skating is informed by his superb technique. He interprets music extremely well, and he has an artistic soul that he expresses within a unique movement style that doesn't apparently grab everyone the same way. He's cool rather than soulfully emotional and expansive in his skating in the way that Jason is.

I did follow Nathan in juniors and realize that he has a lot of range. I agree he has impeccable technique and nuance in his skating and his aesthetic. I find him very elegant. Nathan is just as much of an artist as Jason and Jason is just as much as an athlete as Nathan. I just personally prefer Jason's skating the same way some people prefer one color over another. There is no right or wrong. One of my fellow adult skaters and I are in constant friendly disagreement about Yuzu vs. Nathan. I think Yuzuru is god's gift to skating and could watch him skate footwork all day and be totally happy and she is a Nathan superfan who can't stand that Yuzuru doesn't point his toes the way she wants him to. Neither of us is right or wrong.

I dislike the notion that Nathan's artistry is somehow more difficult to perceive or that only some people can perceive the nuance in his skating. I am personally an introvert and can appreciate a subtler form of performance. All skater's are unique in their own way. Not every skater is going to grab their audience the same way, not just Nathan.

In the same way skaters you don't always connect to as much can have programs that you really respond to. I think Nathan's Nemesis SP was a masterpiece and I'm gutted he couldn't perform it to it's potential at the Olympics.

 

[skylark]

I dislike the notion that Nathan's artistry is somehow more difficult to perceive or that only some people can perceive the nuance in his skating. I am personally an introvert and can appreciate a subtler form of performance. All skater's are unique in their own way. Not every skater is going to grab their audience the same way, not just Nathan.

Well, you may dislike the notion, but flip it on its head: it's beyond clear that some people can't perceive the nuances and the pure artistry of his performances. Or they refuse to. There are still people, unbelievable as it seems, who insist Nathan has no artistry. Being fans of Nathan's competitors, maybe they're in denial.

I'm with you, though. Every skater has limits, as to audience. Some are going to prefer Nathan to Jason, and others vice versa. Or, to put it another way, each one's sensibility will speak more powerfully to different people. I'm one of many who love and admire both. I love your sentence about appreciating a subtler form of performance. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said something similar last year. Signed, A Fellow Introvert.

 

[Seren]

Well, you may dislike the notion, but flip it on its head: it's beyond clear that some people can't perceive the nuances and the pure artistry of his performances. Or they refuse to. There are still people, unbelievable as it seems, who insist Nathan has no artistry. Being fans of Nathan's competitors, maybe they're in denial.

I'm with you, though. Every skater has limits, as to audience. Some are going to prefer Nathan to Jason, and others vice versa. Or, to put it another way, each one's sensibility will speak more powerfully to different people. I'm one of many who love and admire both. I love your sentence about appreciating a subtler form of performance. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said something similar last year. Signed, A Fellow Introvert.

Introverts Unit! (Alone! Lol!)

I think what I really meant was I dislike the idea that there is some magical-superior-artistry-sense you have to have to appreciate one skaters skating over another. Like one can only be seen by those with 'refined' sensibilities or some other nonsense.

As to the first point, people will refuse to see what they don't want to see. Even if it is staring them in the face. I guess I've always been a fan of finding something to enjoy in everyone's skating.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I just love how civil this discussion is

I guess I've always been a fan of finding something to enjoy in everyone's skating.

Absolutely!

 

[1111bm]

...who can't stand that Yuzuru doesn't point his toes the way she wants him to.

Literally me all the time!
(It ruins so much of his skating for me )

 

[el henry]

Well, you may dislike the notion, but flip it on its head: it's beyond clear that some people can't perceive the nuances and the pure artistry of his performances. Or they refuse to. There are still people, unbelievable as it seems, who insist Nathan has no artistry. Being fans of Nathan's competitors, maybe they're in denial.

I'm with you, though. Every skater has limits, as to audience. Some are going to prefer Nathan to Jason, and others vice versa. Or, to put it another way, each one's sensibility will speak more powerfully to different people. I'm one of many who love and admire both. I love your sentence about appreciating a subtler form of performance. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said something similar last year. Signed, A Fellow Introvert.

Well maybe I could try to flip it the other way.

Nathan's performances do not move me as Jason's do. It is not that I can't perceive the pure artistry of Nathan's performances. It is not that I do not perceive nuances. And it is certainly that I refuse to see it. Or that I'm in denial, holy moly
It is simply that the performances do not move me in the same way or as much.

And to say that "some people" are refusing or in denial may put me on the defensive, because I don't know if you are referring to me or not.

We all love different skaters for different reasons.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I did follow Nathan in juniors and realize that he has a lot of range. I agree he has impeccable technique and nuance in his skating and his aesthetic. I find him very elegant. Nathan is just as much of an artist as Jason and Jason is just as much as an athlete as Nathan. I just personally prefer Jason's skating the same way some people prefer one color over another. There is no right or wrong. One of my fellow adult skaters and I are in constant friendly disagreement about Yuzu vs. Nathan. I think Yuzuru is god's gift to skating and could watch him skate footwork all day and be totally happy and she is a Nathan superfan who can't stand that Yuzuru doesn't point his toes the way she wants him to. Neither of us is right or wrong.

I dislike the notion that Nathan's artistry is somehow more difficult to perceive or that only some people can perceive the nuance in his skating. I am personally an introvert and can appreciate a subtler form of performance. All skater's are unique in their own way. Not every skater is going to grab their audience the same way, not just Nathan.

In the same way skaters you don't always connect to as much can have programs that you really respond to. I think Nathan's Nemesis SP was a masterpiece and I'm gutted he couldn't perform it to it's potential at the Olympics.

I didn't say that Nathan's artistry is more difficult to perceive. That's your interpretation of what I said, apparently. Nathan simply has a more interior persona that doesn't apparently connect with some fans. But his persona and his artistry does fully connect with and impact a great many fans. I said that those who followed Nathan in juniors are probably more aware of his range and of his growth, strengths and weaknesses as a skater. I also said that some fans who have followed Nathan may be able to perceive certain nuances of his artistic expression or at the very least understand Nathan's on-ice and off-ice personality more readily than fans who haven't followed him as closely. That doesn't equate to his artistry being difficult to perceive. It's more about different viewers' varying experience in seeing the skater and also in viewing the sport. It's not a matter of difficulty in perceiving Nathan's artistry, but more-so perhaps of not feeling it fully in the same way (which has to do with subjectivity and preference). It's also a matter of experience and perception, as well as having favorites and non-favorites for reasons that we can't always explain.

I get the fact that you can respect Nathan's talent, but not prefer his skating over Jason's. I feel the same way about Yuzu, whose talent and accomplishments I admire. But I am not a fanatic about his skating. My jaw can drop over Yuzu's skating at his best, but on the whole, he's never touched me as much emotionally as my favorite skaters.

Also, there's for sure nothing 'right or wrong' in general about a variety of personal perceptions and opinions. However, one's greater experience for example in understanding aspects of the judging and aspects of the sport's history or of a particular skater's career can add to understanding nuances and technical and artistic aspects of skating that can be missed. I admit that there's a lot I miss in how skaters are scored, because the scoring system is so problematic, and also because it's imperfect, and because politics is too often a factor, as well as subjectivity, which is partly what we are discussing.

Lively conversation and sharing of opinions I find enlightening. I always learn something in sharing my figure skating passion with others, some who may agree and others who may disagree slightly or fundamentally. It depends on our variant backgrounds and experiences in life and in following the sport.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well, you may dislike the notion, but flip it on its head: it's beyond clear that some people can't perceive the nuances and the pure artistry of his performances. Or they refuse to. There are still people, unbelievable as it seems, who insist Nathan has no artistry. Being fans of Nathan's competitors, maybe they're in denial.

I'm with you, though. Every skater has limits, as to audience. Some are going to prefer Nathan to Jason, and others vice versa. Or, to put it another way, each one's sensibility will speak more powerfully to different people. I'm one of many who love and admire both. I love your sentence about appreciating a subtler form of performance. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said something similar last year. Signed, A Fellow Introvert.

Yep, I totally agree with your viewpoint @skylark. I do think that there are some people who refuse to acknowledge Nathan's artistry because they favorite other skaters who they prefer over Nathan and they know that Nathan has the talent to beat their favorite, so they may consciously or unconsciously dismiss or just not perceive Nathan's artistic strengths. There have continually been so many complaints from certain quarters about Nathan not having PCS abilities, which is laughable. Yes, Nathan was still growing artistically a few years ago, and he's still continuing on his artistic journey currently. But anyone who looks at Nathan's 2015 Junior Worlds FS and says he doesn't have artistry is lying.

I'm completely with you on loving and admiring both Jason and Nathan! Great skaters come in all varieties, strengths, complexities, personalities, colors and sensibilities.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well maybe I could try to flip it the other way.

Nathan's performances do not move me as Jason's do. It is not that I can't perceive the pure artistry of Nathan's performances. It is not that I do not perceive nuances. And it is certainly that I refuse to see it. Or that I'm in denial, holy moly
It is simply that the performances do not move me in the same way or as much.

And to say that "some people" are refusing or in denial may put me on the defensive, because I don't know if you are referring to me or not.

We all love different skaters for different reasons.

That's the problem with unnecessarily being on the defensive for no reason. It kinda happens to all of us at one time or another on social media.

I say let's be cool, calm and collected like Nathan. I say, why not be adorably and genuinely friendly and kind like the expansive hugger, Jason! LOL!

Anyhoo, if you don't fully experience Nathan's artistry in the same way as some people do, that's to be expected. We all experience things differently. And we all perceive the same things differently. Some people feel Yuzu is very artistic. I do not. For me, Yuzu focuses more on technical precision, but combined with his flowing movement quality, he gets a lot of accolades for being artistic, when he actually is not as musical as Nathan, at least not to my eyes. Yuzu has a tendency to drop his focus on the music, which happens when you are trying to be perfect technically with quads. That's part of the revolutionary thing about Nathan. He already had good, budding artistry. Then he strategically focused on mastering quads and put some of his artistic expressiveness on the backburner until he made huge competitive strides. Then he began re-focusing on combining creative choreography and a range of music with multiple quads, like no one has ever done before with such success.

Jason's artistic and career trajectory is quite different, but no less compelling, admirable and groundbreaking.

 

[el henry]

That's the problem with unnecessarily being on the defensive for no reason. It kinda happens to all of us at one time or another on social media.

I say let's be cool, calm and collected like Nathan. I say, why not be adorably and genuinely friendly and kind like the expansive hugger, Jason! LOL!

Anyhoo, if you don't fully experience Nathan's artistry in the same way as some people do, that's to be expected. We all experience things differently. And we all perceive the same things differently. Some people feel Yuzu is very artistic. I do not. For me, Yuzu focuses more on technical precision, but combined with his flowing movement quality, he gets a lot of accolades for being artistic, when he actually is not as musical as Nathan, at least not to my eyes. Yuzu has a tendency to drop his focus on the music, which happens when you are trying to be perfect technically with quads. That's part of the revolutionary thing about Nathan. He already had good, budding artistry. Then he strategically focused on mastering quads and put some of his artistic expressiveness on the backburner until he made huge competitive strides. Then he began re-focusing on combining creative choreography and a range of music with multiple quads, like no one has ever done before with such success.

Jason's artistic and career trajectory is quite different, but no less compelling, admirable and groundbreaking.

I really appreciate your detailed answers. Unfortunately, I did not think Nathan’s 2015 FS was all that artistic, and I am not lying. and the next year, the Saint-Saens, I found completely unconvincing.

I will say Nathan has improved tremendously since then, he is much more convincing to me now and much more interesting to watch. I think going away to college was the best thing that’s ever happened to him, opened him up as a skater, as a performer, and someone I now actually look forward to seeing.

now, anyone is free to disagree with my takes, as well they probably ought, but it doesn’t mean I‘m a liar, or in denial, or blind. It just means my takes are different.

 

[Bookseller]

That's the problem with unnecessarily being on the defensive for no reason. It kinda happens to all of us at one time or another on social media.

I say let's be cool, calm and collected like Nathan. I say, why not be adorably and genuinely friendly and kind like the expansive hugger, Jason! LOL!

Anyhoo, if you don't fully experience Nathan's artistry in the same way as some people do, that's to be expected. We all experience things differently. And we all perceive the same things differently. Some people feel Yuzu is very artistic. I do not. For me, Yuzu focuses more on technical precision, but combined with his flowing movement quality, he gets a lot of accolades for being artistic, when he actually is not as musical as Nathan, at least not to my eyes. Yuzu has a tendency to drop his focus on the music, which happens when you are trying to be perfect technically with quads. That's part of the revolutionary thing about Nathan. He already had good, budding artistry. Then he strategically focused on mastering quads and put some of his artistic expressiveness on the backburner until he made huge competitive strides. Then he began re-focusing on combining creative choreography and a range of music with multiple quads, like no one has ever done before with such success.

Jason's artistic and career trajectory is quite different, but no less compelling, admirable and groundbreaking.

I think it all comes down to personality. They all have different personalities and in these three skaters, their personalities are on display on the ice. I think that is true of most great skaters and some of us prefer different types of personalities. I prefer Jason's skating, but I can appreciate Nathan's incredible skills and his musicality, and Yuzu's force of nature when he competes. Yuzu is otherworldly on ice. He does the impossible. But I will never love his skating as much as I love Jason's. I do think that I am going to like Nathan's programs this year better than any of his previous programs. I think they are bringing out a different side of him that he wants to show people. And I think it will move him forward artistically. But I'm excited to see what Jason will bring to his new programs. It's going to be an interesting season, whatever the season brings.

 

[mrrice]

How old is Jason? I feel like we've been watching him forever. I remember watching him as a junior with a Long Pony Tail when he was just a baby.

 

[Seren]

That's the problem with unnecessarily being on the defensive for no reason. It kinda happens to all of us at one time or another on social media.

I say let's be cool, calm and collected like Nathan. I say, why not be adorably and genuinely friendly and kind like the expansive hugger, Jason! LOL!

Anyhoo, if you don't fully experience Nathan's artistry in the same way as some people do, that's to be expected. We all experience things differently. And we all perceive the same things differently. Some people feel Yuzu is very artistic. I do not. For me, Yuzu focuses more on technical precision, but combined with his flowing movement quality, he gets a lot of accolades for being artistic, when he actually is not as musical as Nathan, at least not to my eyes. Yuzu has a tendency to drop his focus on the music, which happens when you are trying to be perfect technically with quads. That's part of the revolutionary thing about Nathan. He already had good, budding artistry. Then he strategically focused on mastering quads and put some of his artistic expressiveness on the backburner until he made huge competitive strides. Then he began re-focusing on combining creative choreography and a range of music with multiple quads, like no one has ever done before with such success.

Jason's artistic and career trajectory is quite different, but no less compelling, admirable and groundbreaking.

This is a very thoughtful post. I can really sense your love of Nathan's skating which is very lovely.

It is always interesting to me how different we can be with what we see and love. For me Yuzuru's 2017 World's Long Program is the greatest men's long program I've every seen for the exact reasons you use when talking about Nathan. To me it was transcendent in a way I haven't really fully seen since from anyone.

Either way, we are lucky to have so many great US men to watch. In the end I think we are all lucky!

 

[karne]

How old is Jason? I feel like we've been watching him forever. I remember watching him as a junior with a Long Pony Tail when he was just a baby.

He'll be 26 in December, and it probably seems like so long because he was 16 when he made his Senior debut at Nationals and earned his first standing O there.