Judging Critiques/Continuation of Plushenko’s Allegations | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Judging Critiques/Continuation of Plushenko’s Allegations

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What was your reason for very recently joining the forum and posting incorrect statements such as "the Technical Committee wants to implement an Artistic Program without any jumps at all"?
First, my reason for joining this forum is none of you concern.
Second, you're lying and I never wrote that. I wrote "Fabio Bianchetti would rather implement an Artistic Program without any jumps at all". That's my opinion based on some interviews and articles.
Third, I understand you wish to dig something on me in return but "artistic program" and my words about it has nothing to do with this thread.
 
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Again, I only complete skatesocks:
But your opinion on that seems purely based on the fact you don't respect Plushy as a person. You didn't enjoy his skating or personality so obviously he's a crap coach too.

When Plushenko was on his top I wasn't interested in figure skating. I knew he exists of course, I folowed sport news etc. and he was pretty much everywhere as a phenomenon, so I considered he must be damn good, but didn't have an opinion on his skating (nor the skating of his opponents who I knew nothing about). The less I had an opinion on his personality. As I said many times I started to follow figure skating when I accidenatlly saw Yulia's olympic team skate, that hooked me. I saw it a year after it happened, in 2015, then for the first two years I still had little knowledge and watched Europeans (at 2016 Europeans I fully appreciated Evgenia for the first time) and Worlds. Also realized there is something like GP series (ironicaly because of the cancellation of IdF in 2015 because of the terrorist attacks in Paris). 2017 was the break year, I realized there is a team trophy, where Evgenia achieved her record score, and for the first time I saw junior worlds, where Alina shined and charmed me. This lead me to start learning the rules, recognize the jumps, knowing more about the competition calendar etc. Then of course Sasha, Aliona and Nastya came in the autumn JGP and finally made me to realize that the skaters who truly catched my attention all come from one training facility. Till that time I had only a little knowledge about Eteri herself, the first news I heard like about Yulia's leaving and so were rather negative but I didn't pay much attention yet, at that time I wasn't interested so much that I would follow the coaches and the background. Now when I truly realized that I'm in fact admiring her work it made me to learn more about her and gradually moved me into the position where I am now.

Still didn't know much about Plushenko, I accepted he's a legend, I saw his press conference in Sochi where he showed the broken metal screws from his back and it of couse made me to admire him as an athlete and think about the load of work that leads to that. But didn't follow the men much yet and he he was still like a figure aside. Started to hear more about him when Nastya came to him and no one can blame me of prejudice against him, because I cheered for Nastya and praised her programs she had under him. I followed the "scandal" when she left and because of that I learned about what Serafima's opinion on him is, but it still didn't play much of a role for me. I also pretty much cheered for Katya at 2019 worlds. Also I praised Plushenko for he was one of the few important people of russian figure skating who openly said that Alina deserved victory at Sochi.

My current opinion on him is the result of what started a year ago before the nationals, his statements about figure skating, Eteri and skaters. Not before.

For example Stephane Lambiel now coaches Shoma Uno and Satoko two extremely accomplished skaters, he also hasn't been a coach very long (longer than Plushy but he's no veteran) yet not once has anyone dissed him.

Below.

And just the other day Polina Tsurskaya was at the Moscow Novice Championships, she was referred to as a coach. She literally started at Crystal a few months ago, yet no-one is jumping up and down and insisting she's not a coach. Maxim Trankov pre-empted everyone and insisted he wasn't a coach, but he really helped T/M and people called him their coach. Aljona S started coaching Ashley and Tim without even announcing her retirement, everyone was excited.

Again, below, Polina being there with younger and older novice skaters is not comparable at all with Plushenko's position. Also Polina is a coach in a team, where she is coaching younger skaters, that's axactly how a coach should start. She is not the head of the team. I guess if everything will go the right way, within several years she can easily be in a position similar to Daniil, for instance. And in another 15 years she can be in a position of Eteri, I suppose ;)

Plushy is the only exception, the only one who doesn't deserve to be called a coach and it's not because of how long he's been coaching it is simply because most posters here Just. Don't. Like. Him. How is that fair? Most of you seem unwilling to even give him a chance, which would be fine if every coach starting out was treated in this manner, but they aren't. And it adds insult to injury they people won't admit and hide behind semantics and claims that Plushy is just too new of a coach. Be honest, Plushy could be a coach for 20 years and you'd still feel that way. Why do people refuse to own it?

He has (had) his chance. So far he didn't impress me as a team leader. I guess so far he is able to learn the technique, but failing in the other tasks the coach has.

And you didn't answer my question, did you actually expect Plushy to refuse to take Sasha on because he's such a novice coach? Or are you suggesting the Sasha acted unreasonably by expecting him to be her coach in the first place. Once again it's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. No matter what decision Plushy made, he was going to get criticised either way, that being the case good for him for taking on Sasha.

I never said he should refuse Sasha, so the question has no meaning gfor me. On the other hand I say whoever is behind the decision to move Sasha to Plushenko made the bad decision and so far I think my opinion is right.

Also like Eteri, Plushy doesn't work alone, he has a team, when posters deride the Academy they insult all the people working there. Do you deny that Dima Mikhailov has done an amazing job so far? He's low-key and works hard, why does he deserve to be sneered at just because he works at the Academy. Were he a Crystal coach he'd probably have a little fanclub instead of being a joke.

He has the team, but the leader must have particular qualities he seems he doesn't have.

Are you sure? I definitely remember hearing about Eteri and co. wanting Sasha to do less quads before she left and that Sasha didn't want to.

My point is when Sasha does do less quads she can't win and she knows this. It was true under Eteri (as so many are keen to point out) and it's true with the Academy. Sasha wants to win, she didn't come to skating to look pretty. What's the point of doing a beautiful quad Lutz and lovely quad toe just so she can lose to Anna by 10 points instead of 20? Nuts to that, if you're gonna lose at least lose trying your best rather than holding back. The motto of the Olympics is Higher. Faster. Stronger not Safer. Careful. Meek.
There is probably some confusion, because that's exactly what I'm saying (or what I wanted to say, maybe my english failed me). That's it. And I think Eteri was completely right when she wanted Sasha to do less quads for the purpose to deliver clean programs and gain better stability, whichg would benefit her for sure. Less is more many times in life, and that was not eternal ban, but the logical purpose is to add difficulty and complexity gradually, the attitude "I want it all now" is risky and above all dangerous.
 
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I wrote "Fabio Bianchetti would rather implement an Artistic Program without any jumps at all". That's my opinion based on some interviews and articles.

It's an incorrect opinion, not sure how you reached it. I'm guessing in the same way that's lead you to make false statements and twist words about other things in this thread, and acting like anyone is crazy for criticizing Valieva's bad interpretation of Bolero, while giving zero analysis and reasoning of your own.
 
It's an incorrect opinion
No, it's a correct opinion.
to make false statements and twist words
I've just cited your own words. It's not my fault those are false.
acting like anyone is crazy for criticizing Valieva's bad interpretation of Bolero

I am just very amused by your attempts to denigrate Valieva's absolutely outstanding interpretation of Bolero. People (including the Olympic Champion) were literally in tears after her stunning perfomance.
 
This is your perception. It is not reality. I could provide many examples to prove this point but I am not going to do that here in this thread. It would be off-topic.

Also, I don't really think you want me to. If I am wrong and you really want specifics regarding all the ways in which the OGM continues to be attacked just me send a message. Or just search her name on Twitter. It's not hard to find.
And you can send me a message, and I can tell you how Evgenia still is being attacked. Or we could all stop the nonsense and not let what happens outside this board, influence the topics of conversation.
 
No, it's a correct opinion.

I've just cited your own words. It's not my fault those are false.


I am just very amused by your attempts to denigrate Valieva's absolutely outstanding interpretation of Bolero. People (including the Olympic Champion) were literally in tears after her stunning perfomance.
Tears and miracles are currently very popular in Russian ladies FS.
 
I guess if everything will go the right way, within several years she can easily be in a position similar to Daniil, for instance. And in another 15 years she can be in a position of Eteri, I suppose
Oh lovely, so who's gonna break this to Polina? "Maybe in a decade of you're a good little girl you to can rise to the dizzying heights of Danny G."

I never said he should refuse Sasha
But you blame him for doing so. As if any other coach wouldn't leap at this chance? But as Plushy has yet to get his coaching certificate from the Grand High Goddess of Coaching Eteri Tut he's not actually a coach, honestly I keep forgetting. 🙄
My current opinion on him is the result of what started a year ago before the nationals, his statements about figure skating, Eteri and skaters. Not before.
Oh so his words about Sima and Nastya T hurt and appalled you and turned you against Plushenko did they? But funnily enough your idol Eteri's far crueller words and actions had no effect? She has trashed every skater who ever dared to leave her, even when she basically forced them out with her taunts. Why don't you read about Aidan Pitkeev and the horrific way Eteri treated him, the pain and torment she put him through. If you hate Plushenko for what he did to Sima and Nastya (who are still able to skate and compete by the way) then I hate Eteri for what she did to Aidan, and to Julia, and to Sergei V, and to Polina, and to Zhenya Med (why those two went back I'll never know).

Plushenko is not perfect, but he has never done the kind of crap Eteri has.

She has no business being anywhere near children with her utter thoughtless and carelessness towards their health physically and mentally.

And if that offends you will that's pretty much what I hear every day about Plushenko with far less grounds for it.

Enjoy.
 
Oh lovely, so who's gonna break this to Polina? "Maybe in a decade of you're a good little girl you to can rise to the dizzying heights of Danny G."
Shortly: Twisting.

But you blame him for doing so. As if any other coach wouldn't leap at this chance? But as Plushy has yet to get his coaching certificate from the Grand High Goddess of Coaching Eteri Tut he's not actually a coach, honestly I keep forgetting. 🙄
Shortly: I didn't.
Oh so his words about Sima and Nastya T hurt appalled you and turned you against Plushy did they?

Shortly: What is so difficult to understand on the line: My current opinion on him is the result of what started a year ago before the nationals, his statements about figure skating, Eteri and skaters. Not before.
Because you may still not understand, a year before is the turn of 2019/2020, not the time when Nastya left him. That's not the moment I'm talking about, I would have said "what started two years ago. Not before".

But funnily enough your idol Eteri's far crueller words and actions had no effect? She has trashed every skater who ever dared to leave her, even when she basically forced them out with her taunts. Why don't you read about Aidan Pitkeev and the horrific way Eteri treated him, the pain and torment she put him through. If you hate Plushenko for what he did to Sima and Nastya (who are still able to skate and competeby the way) then I hate Eteri for what she did to Aidan, and to Julia, and to Sergei V, and to Polina, and to Zhenya Med (why those two went back I'll never know).

Finally we have a honest confession: you hate Eteri. OK, thanks :biggrin: But I don't attend the competition "who hates whom" ;)

Plushenko is not perfect, but he has never done the kind of crap Eteri has.

She has no business being anywhere near children with her utter thoughtless and carelessness towards their health physically and mentally.

And if that offends you will that's pretty much what I hear every day about Plushenko.

Enjoy.
I'm afraid the only person in permament state of being offended is you.

Conclusion. For you Eteri is absolutely terrible person and anyone who dares to have objections about Plushenko is just simple hater. I guess we are where we started and where any such discussion starts and ends.. Has this any point? It doesn't.
 
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It's an incorrect opinion, not sure how you reached it. I'm guessing in the same way that's lead you to make false statements and twist words about other things in this thread, and acting like anyone is crazy for criticizing Valieva's bad interpretation of Bolero, while giving zero analysis and reasoning of your own.
I'm waiting for you to write down your LP analyses 😜😜😜😜
 
Bolero was my favorite skate of Nationals. Lost count on how many times I’ve rewatched it.

I am no judge, and couldn’t care less how many points it did, or didn’t get. I enjoyed it as a viewer, and for me, that’s all that matters.

This sport is a judging sport. The people competing in it know what they are getting into.

Regardless of the explanations and technical jargon, it’s still subjective. The only thing objective is the base value of the elements.

The PCS is a complete blank check. You can justify any score if you wanted, hiding behind technical explanations and confusing jargon to do so. I don’t care what you have studied, what’s the difference between 9.00 and 9.05? That’s all super subjective.

Last time I checked, judges were all human. And so automatically they are imperfect and fallible.

They have their own likes, dislikes, preferences, and non preferences. And that seeps into the scoring. And that’s not even taking into account any nefarious reasons.

There are judges that don’t agree with other judges, let alone the fans.

It is what it is; And the skaters know that a portion of where they place is out of their control, no matter what they do on the ice. And a lucky few get placed higher no matter what they do on ice as well.

That’s life, that’s just the way it is. Skaters know what they are getting into and what to expect. It’s not a secret or mystery.

So, critical evaluations and concrete criticisms of judging should be welcome, both inside and outside the judging bubble.

Unfortunately, real concrete changes rarely come unless the mainstream media shines a light on it. And that happens once in a century.
 
Miracles BY the certain team, not FOR.
Of course, miracles only exist for people who believe in miracles. For the rest of people, miracles belong in the realm of fairy tales. Oh, and devout disciples, of course, also believe in miracles.
 
No, it's a correct opinion.
It's not correct at all. No such thing has been proposed, nor wanted to be proposed. You are making a false assumption, seemingly in part because you are upset that Bianchetti displaced a Russian from their position.

I've just cited your own words.

No, you twisted words, attempting to take something written about someone's skating in 2018, and trying to apply it to 2021, as if completely different programs and the level a skater is at are the same thing. Again, this is totally unacceptable, and I have to wonder how stupid you think people are; you seem to think most people won't see right through this nakedly feeble tactic.

I am just very amused by your attempts to denigrate Valieva's absolutely outstanding interpretation of Bolero. People (including the Olympic Champion) were literally in tears after her stunning perfomance.

Once again you give no reasoning whatsoever, you only quote something irrelevant. Her interpretation is nowhere close to outstanding, and it's a bastardization of music and movement to hold it up as such. She is literally always off the beat of the music throughout most of the program, and her movements in general do not follow the structure of the music most of the time; they don't even make sense with the overall character much of the time. Look here for example - she completely ignores what is happening with Bolero; when a clause in the music rises and completes at 1:05, she is doing absolutely nothing with it, just blankly skating through and preparing for a jump.

Plenty of people, including other Olympians, have commented on how ineffective her program is and how Bolero needs to stop being used like this. Yes, she has some great qualities and the technical content is excellent (people can cry simply because of an athletic achievement), but artistically this program is very lacking. If you listened to a wider ranger of opinions, and saw some better performances of Bolero (or I guess we can say more musical for the sake of recognizing that differences in opinions exist), then perhaps you would not find it so shocking that a significant number of people with deep expertise in skating and/or dance and/or music have found this program to be lacking.
 
Poor Evgeny is sure to be very grieved over this.
Not Evgeniy, but you definitely if you felt the need to express yourself :laugh2:

Alas, if you have the problem with that, then please tell the people to not discuss with me the questions about how I feel about Plushenko as a person or as a coach. I wouldn't say that if I wasn't asked ;)
 
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Of course, miracles only exist for people who believe in miracles. For the rest of people, miracles belong in the realm of fairy tales. Oh, and devout disciples, of course, also believe in miracles.
According to vocabularies Miracle is "any amazing or wonderful occurrence", "lucky thing that happens that you did not expect or think was possible". I don't think that everything unexpected and wonderful "belongs in the realm of fairy tales".
 
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