2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating | Page 56 | Golden Skate

2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

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Since some of you were suggesting Mariah should get a new SP I'm curious in general how that works. Can you keep same or similar choreo while changing music as long as it kind of matches?

Yes, look at Shcherbakova's FS from last season, the back half of the music changed and there were only minimal changes done to that portion of the program, mainly centered around her expression of the music.

But I think with Mariah a good number of the suggestions have been for Mariah to basically dump Gaga in favor of the Celine Dion program she did a few years ago
 
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Since some of you were suggesting Mariah should get a new SP I'm curious in general how that works. Can you keep same or similar choreo while changing music as long as it kind of matches?

You could get an entirely new program, return to an old one, or adapt another one.

Jason skated a new SP in 2017 at a few summer comps. He went to Champs Camp, in mid August where the officials said, hmmm, not so good, do you have anything else? He skated his exhibition, and they liked it. He dumped the SP he had been skating and turned the exhibition into the SP he used that year.

I think Mariah herself returned to an old SP (a Rohene one as a matter of fact) when she decided the new SP she had commissioned wasn't for her. I forget the year.

I don't follow Mariah enough to know what she should do. She may loooove to vogue on ice. If the judges don't love it, it won't matter🤷‍♀️
 
At this point, I am unwilling to listen to any negativity focused on Alysa. She and her team are doing everything they possibly can to prepare her for this Olympic Season. This was a great outing for her and I think anyone who says differently, is not looking at skating on the whole. There may be Russian Ladies who can defeat her but, she is on the right track.
Liu has improved so much, but is still very young and has very little chance of competing with the Russians. Honestly, if she could finish ahead of any of the Japanese women it would be a major accomplishment, but even that will be tough this year.
 
Mariah SP is good, the only place that I would change is the music cut on the step sequence. Remove all thoses dj strange noise and just put the original soundtrack of rain on me would be much enjoyable to watch. If she did that with the music, the program would be ok to me !
 
Alysa looked really good. Despite her problems with the 3A, all the other jumps look solid. She gets nice pop on her 3Lz and she gets the jumps later in the program done with no problem. She is far surpassing my expectations for her so far this season, and I hope she continues to improve.
 
Alysa's way better than before, but I don't see how it's so clear cut vs. Bradie even. Alysa suffered heavily on jump and spin GOE. Bradie has way better quality jumps and incredible spin positions. Among Americans Bradie, Mariah and Karen at the least have better spins. It's not like Alysa can improve her flexibility and spins to that degree, and her jump technique is her jump technique. Too little distance and height so can't access +4/+5 even on a good day. Alysa's main asset is grit and determination.

Have to say it's weird to listen to "Bradie is a hard-worker and not as talented", when the quality of her elements show immense talent as well as hard work.
 
Alysa's way better than before, but I don't see how it's so clear cut vs. Bradie even. Alysa suffered heavily on jump and spin GOE. Bradie has way better quality jumps and incredible spin positions. Among Americans Bradie, Mariah and Karen at the least have better spins. It's not like Alysa can improve her flexibility and spins to that degree, and her jump technique is her jump technique. Too little distance and height so can't access +4/+5 even on a good day. Alysa's main asset is grit and determination.

Have to say it's weird to listen to "Bradie is a hard-worker and not as talented", when the quality of her elements show immense talent as well as hard work.
I don't really disagree with what you are saying. However, the improvements that Alysa has made are truly impressive. I think she should be praised for that. I, also, think her reliability in competition makes her more likely than other US ladies to get a solid score at any competition.

On the other hand, Bradie is an underrated IMHO. She has such a unique presence on the ice. Her style is truly her own. After seeing Bradie and Amber live, I became fans of them both. They have such power and commitment in their skating that you can't really grasp through the screen. I think Alysa and Bradie are the most solid contenders for the Olympic spots. Provided Bradie is healthy, she will likely be at the Olympics. She could also easily beat Alysa at Nationals ( if Alysa doesn't start rotating her 3A) because she does have a number of better quality elements than Alysa.
 
I think Gracie is similar to Kostornaia, a skater with a lot of natural talent, but not a lot of natural self-motivation or ability push themselves so they need a coach like an Eteri or a Frank that's strict and going to push them.
Before I ever think about Gracie’s skating, I think of her physical and mental well being. She has an eating disorder. She needs to be coached by someone who won’t exacerbate that. I don’t think Frank was good for her in that way and Eteri would be a disaster of epic proportions. She needs to stay away from RAF as well. I don’t mean that she’s delicate or incapable in some way. But she has a mental health problem she’s been very open about. She mentioned during Covid everyone was hoarding food and that was difficult for her.
 
Before I ever think about Gracie’s skating, I think of her physical and mental well being. She has an eating disorder. She needs to be coached by someone who won’t exacerbate that. I don’t think Frank was good for her in that way and Eteri would be a disaster of epic proportions. She needs to stay away from RAF as well. I don’t mean that she’s delicate or incapable in some way. But she has a mental health problem she’s been very open about. She mentioned during Covid everyone was hoarding food and that was difficult for her.
You don't mean to, but you are making her sound delicate to me. She shared information about her mental health and physical health, but does she really want that information to define her more than her skating? Not so sure about that.
 
Couple random thoughts:
I liked Mariah's Celine short a lot and would love to see it again, but its probably too similar to what shes going for in the long for it to be a real option. I get that some ppl hate the sound effects in the rain on me part of her current program, but to me the real problem, besides for using 3 songs in a 2 minute program, is the 911 part. Its such a bizarre choice of lyrics to have blaring thru an arena where no onr but you is dancing - id have preferred it if she committed to the rain on me song and had more moments of free fast skating in addition to the dancing posing parts.
 
Alysa looks to be in a great place for august, namely uninjured like amber and bradie (whom I wish speedy recoveries), and with good programs that seem very trained unlike Mariah. The main thing I think with trying triple axels and such is that all your other content has to be secure, and it looks like it is for her so that's great. I still think she would need 2 or 3 triple axels to medal at the Olympics but she has some time to try and get there.
 
Since some of you were suggesting Mariah should get a new SP I'm curious in general how that works. Can you keep same or similar choreo while changing music as long as it kind of matches?
Actually, for the most part, yes. And most of Mariah's 'choreography' is the same as it has been for the past two years, just different music. In some ways I think her long program is even worse. Both Sides Now at such a sleepy slow speed I thought I was going to nod off. Sloooooowww edging across the ice. Lots of sloooooow arm waving. The entire program was so...sloooooow. I would strongly suggest she find a new choreographer, post haste, and put two new programs together, even if she has to use old ones for GP. Neither one of these is a good enough program to challenge for an Olympic place come January.
 
Alysa looks to be in a great place for august, namely uninjured like amber and bradie (whom I wish speedy recoveries), and with good programs that seem very trained unlike Mariah. The main thing I think with trying triple axels and such is that all your other content has to be secure, and it looks like it is for her so that's great. I still think she would need 2 or 3 triple axels to medal at the Olympics but she has some time to try and get there.
Unlike Mariah, Alysa's team has done a terrific job with her programs-both of them. Both programs scream 'Olympic program', with interesting choreography, music and so on. While the lutz etc., is secure, she slows way down on the entrance and it still is more rotation speed than height. Same with the 3A. But she is ready to go. Audrey is looking better and better,-her long suits her and is beautiful, and if it is actually possible to skate to words, she almost manages it. Amber's short is also a very good program. Wish I could have seen Amber's long, but I guess we will see it at SA. I think we can also expect Bradie and Karen to come out with great programs, so if Mariah doesn't make some drastic changes, she stands to be left behind.
 
Last post I promise. I'm a little torn on the ideal retirement age. On the one hand, I do agree that competing until one reaches 18 then going on to college to live a normal and healthy life can be indicative of a well adjusted child with many aspirations and a positive mindset and self-image. But I do think that part of that is the fact that skating cant rlly be a career anymore. Basically the only options are competing as an amateur and ocasionally winning some money, or moving on. If show/pro skating was still a thing (in the US), I would love to see certain skaters stay in the sport many years because their true passion is as performers/artists, while also having a dependable income.
 
Alysa's way better than before, but I don't see how it's so clear cut vs. Bradie even. Alysa suffered heavily on jump and spin GOE. Bradie has way better quality jumps and incredible spin positions. Among Americans Bradie, Mariah and Karen at the least have better spins. It's not like Alysa can improve her flexibility and spins to that degree, and her jump technique is her jump technique. Too little distance and height so can't access +4/+5 even on a good day. Alysa's main asset is grit and determination.

Have to say it's weird to listen to "Bradie is a hard-worker and not as talented", when the quality of her elements show immense talent as well as hard work.
Her spins are the best spins in the world IMO. But being 5'7", jumps do not come as easily to her as someone who is 5', and Bradie has issues with UR's, and actually getting those jumps into the air. And by 'natural athletic ability' I mean jumping ability. With the rest of the world moving on to 3A's and quads, their is a ceiling as to how high Bradie can score against an ever increasing number of skaters with 3A's and quads.
 
Last post I promise. I'm a little torn on the ideal retirement age. On the one hand, I do agree that competing until one reaches 18 then going on to college to live a normal and healthy life can be indicative of a well adjusted child with many aspirations and a positive mindset and self-image.
If skaters retired at 18, Ashley Wagner would not be a World and Olympic medalist. These accomplishments are likely to be the most noteworthy in her life, and it took many years of perserverence for everything to come together for her to achieve them.
 
If skaters retired at 18, Ashley Wagner would not be a World and Olympic medalist. These accomplishments are likely to be the most noteworthy in her life, and it took many years of perserverence for everything to come together for her to achieve them.

And what is your point? Some skaters take longer to develop into champions. Talk to MrRice about his favorite skater who finally became a World champion at 26 (which I LOVED. Good for her!!!) I'm not saying the MAXIMUM age limit should be 18!!! JHC. But what is so wrong with Alina Zagitova taking the top prizes and retiring from competition when she is college age? Nothing, in my opinion. And I think she did it the smart way. Now she has the rest of her life to skate, pursue other opportunities and interests, and doesn't have to deal with the daily grind of 8h training and risking chronic injury. I say "Let the younger skaters compete, and for heaven's sake don't raise the minimum age!!!" What don't you get about that? If a skater wants to skate and loves what they are doing (Liza Tuk for instance) I will fully support their effort and celebrate their wins/accomplishments. I just wish people would stop denigrating and criticizing teenage skaters who won all the big prizes and moved on and then treat it like it was some evidence of failure or a bad thing.
 
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