Did Cohen Have the Desire to Win?

[bekalc]

Yes, but ultimately she got the OGM and a WGM. That's not shabby by any means and in general, folks aren't going to moan about "what she could have been" like they do over Cohen.

True, Arakawa did not bring it on ALL occasions when it counted. But she brought it on the most IMPORTANT ones.

Cohen? ...

I'm not disagreeing with you there...

 

[slutskayafan21]

Yes, Arakawa brought it when it counts. Twice. But there were a lot of occassions "where it counts" where Arakawa didn't bring it...Still yeah, I'd take her career over Cohens... But I still think that Arakawa is one of those who could have been greater than what she was.

If Shizuka was really as lazy almost her entire career as reportedly she was she really could have been a champion many years sooner and piled up World and even Olympic titles if she were really commited from a young age the way others are. Again though that is only if she were really as lazy for many years as she reportedly was.

 

[R.D.]

Let's not get off topic AGAIN but I think she was struggling with motivational issues and almost quit after winning World gold (or was it before?)

 

[bekalc]

If Shizuka was really as lazy almost her entire career as reportedly she was she really could have been a champion many years sooner and piled up World and even Olympic titles if she were really commited from a young age the way others are. Again though that is only if she were really as lazy for many years as she reportedly was.

I don't know how reportedly lazy Arakawa was... Arakawa herself says she wasn't motivated enough as a younger skater...But then again, this is a Japanese skater talking, and well with the Japanese work ethic, who knows what they would regard as lazy And she did manage to graduate from college! My feeling is though if Arakawa felt she could have worked harder, she probably could have. Arakawa was really an amazing talent. Sale called it best she combined Slutskaya's power (with more grace/butter edges) and Cohen's grace. Arakawa could have been "the great one." But no she just has to settle for being world/olympic champion...

 

[Dee4707]

But despite her "flip-flops" in placement, Arakawa still has both a World championship and an Olympic championship. As a competitive skater it doesn't get much better than that. I'm sure Cohen (and countless other skaters) would trade places with her any day.

I doubt that very much.

Dee

 

[tarotx]

I think Sasha wanted a gold but to say she would trade places with another skater who has what she wants is a bit of a stretch. Silverbelle is just Sasha. It's the way things turned out.

Sasha's issue isn't that she never won gold. That is what I hate about these discussions about her. IMO what limits Sasha is that she could never truly skate a full free program up to the level she did so in parts. I'm not talking about perfection-only a program that kept the wow from begining to end. She always either had a very obvious error that made "me" loose the "lost in the moment" that I at least experience when watching her and/or had errors that affected her ability to be in the moment so I couldn't be in the moment either. She has such special moments in her programs but never a (major) free program filled from start to finish with them. And it was never the same move or moment that she lost it like it is with other skaters (ex:Jeff with the quad) that has people thinking "if only".

 

[rtureck]

]
Sasha's issue isn't that she never won gold.

She has never won major gold. GPF as major gold is stretching it. Whether US nationals is a major gold is up for debate) She sure did not even attempt to defend this gold, and we all know that defending a gold is more difficult than winning one. At least Kimmie gave an effort to defend her world gold in 07, and will try at national 08. That bring back to topic. She has the desire for gold, just was unwilling to pay the pain to arrive at it.

Many of the young girls coming on the scene aspire to skate like her. It's great that they have a model to look up to. Hopefully we will see some improved spirals thanks to Sasha.

Not sure about young girls outside of USA. The top 3 young girls at USA, i.e. Meissner, Zhang and Nagasu aspire to skate like Michelle.

In this case, Sasha was more consistent than Arakawa who went from something like 9th to 1 to 9th again and then Olympic Champion...Sasha though was never really able to deliver a fully clean performance when it counts and that's why she's not a world or Olympic champion

I read about ARakawa falling from 1st to ninth in Sasha's website, essentially Sasha too was making the same point. Maybe that was what inspired Arakawa to beat Cohen at Torino 2006. Arakawa was not lazy. Like most Japanes skaters, her training conditions were not optimal. There are really not enough elite coaches for all the skaters in Japan, and ice time was horrible (over crosed). Please don't forget Arakawa attended college full time and skated full time. Later she moved to the States to train (she was relatively young and was thousands of miles away from home, she trained without immediately family around). Cohen OTOH did not have to deal with all of the above.

 

[wildone]

Arakawa could have been "the great one." But no she just has to settle for being world/olympic champion...

Maybe she doesn't want to be the "great one." She might have set a goal of winning an OGM and since she accomplished it, she wants to pursue other goals. Scott Hamilton left amateur skating after winning his. Kristi Yamaguchi and Tara Lipinski did the same.

They all could have extended their amateur career and become "great ones." There is nothing wrong with moving forward to something else.

 

[dizzydi7]

Did Cohen have the desire to win?

No, Tara Lipinski did not have the option of continuing to skate to become a "great one". She was injured beyond repair and skated her last great performance at the Olympics and that was it for her.

Kristi turned professional and had the best and longest professional career that I can remember.

Back on subject....Cohen had a desire to win but just didn't have her competitive nerves under control. She was, and is, in my opinion a beautiful skater whose skating and career should not be demeaned. Although not on the top spot, she was on the podium more than most elite skaters.

Dizzy

 

[Tinymavy15]

of course sasha wanted to win. She wanted more than anybody. She had very competitive spirt, you could see it in her eyes. I think that perhaps the pressure that everybody (inculding herself) put on her, ti finally skate that perfect LP did her in becasue before every freekskate she would second guess herself and over think it. The few times she did a perfect or almost perfect freeskate was at chessefests when it didn't really count. But that's what we mean when we say that skaters are not mesured by medals alone!

 

[R.D.]

there's more to skating than not falling. I remember thinking Cohen was just overall a very boring skater. That only changed about a year ago when she started doing the Marshall's shows. Finally she lightened up and went all out. Her competitive pieces were always zzzz IMO and she was always nervous and skated tentatively that even when she was "clean", it was very uninspiring IMHO.

 

[Mathman]

But the take home point is that you don't have to be consistent to win the big one. You just have to bring it WHEN IT COUNTS.

Actually, there are two ways to win the big one. You bring it when it counts (Arakawa at 2004 worlds).

Or you bring what you can, and hope others are worse that day (Arakawa at 2006 Olympics).

There is still a lot of luck involved. All of Sasha's silvers would have been gold if the other girl had messed up. All of her finishes would have been off the podium of the others had stepped up.

You don't have to be good, just better than the other guy.

 

[MichelleTodd]

Actually, there are two ways to win the big one. You bring it when it counts (Arakawa at 2004 worlds).

Or you bring what you can, and hope others are worse that day (Arakawa at 2006 Olympics).

There is still a lot of luck involved. All of Sasha's silvers would have been gold if the other girl had messed up. All of her finishes would have been off the podium of the others had stepped up.

You don't have to be good, just better than the other guy.

To a large extent, I agree. However, sometimes there is a third, hybrid way to win: You bring all that you can when it counts, with a little hope that the others may falter a bit. That's what happened with Sarah Hughes in SLC.

 

[R.D.]

With something as individual as skating, the best you can do is bring YOUR A-Game and hope it's enough to win (or place well if you're not a medal contender).

Cohen would make a great pro skater, though. I really think so because during shows when the pressure is off, her talents are really showcased. In competition pieces they got diluted due to the nerves, etc. and she came off as really manufactured IMHO.

 

[JPierce]

Ridiculous topic line. Cohen's desire to win is what CAUSED all the nerves that made her fall short so many times. Nevertheless, "Silver Sasha" is far more memorable than most of the skaters on the ice today. And those of you who talk of her only in the past tense - LOL! WHEN she comes back next season (which over and over she has repeatedly said she WILL do, including her most recent interview, as it is one of her "major life goals" to be at '09 Worlds and '10 Olympics) she may not exceed or even match her achievements of the past, I don't know. But she will be back strong, because she skates to win. Either that or succumb to injury ala Michelle 2006.

Injury would be the only way she could be out of the running over the next 2 years. Guaranteed. I know because I understand her personality. She already HAS Olympic and Worlds silver. The only reason she would come back (re: her life goals) is to try for gold. She knows what will be required for that and will be training accordingly. And if she doesn't melt down due to injuries (which are very possible I admit) then she will once again be the US favorite. I love all of our current ladies in their own way, but none are on the same level. And if you don't believe that, just look at the numbers. Kimmie is on top, and with all of her ice time since Sasha's heyday, still lists an ISU personal best of 189.87. Sasha's is 197.60, less than 2 points below Mao Asada.

Some people on this forum may be foolish enough to write Sasha off, but I guarantee none of the other US ladies will do so.

 

[R.D.]

Cohen's High score came in the infancy of the NJS where it was easier to score a high # of points. That same performance that earned her that 197 would not get that amount right now.

The topic title came from someone in the Kimmie thread questioning her desire to win and several other posters jumped on that topic, hammering the final nails in the coffin for that thread. So that's why I chose to give the spinoff thread this title.

And I think only Cohen fans in some dream world would ever actually expect her to come back. Face it, her competitive career is over. Even if she does choose to "go for it", injuries will probably take her out very quickly. She seemed to be just hanging on during that Olympic season. And her peak was in the 2003-04 season. It's over, guys. Come on. Wake up- It's like some of the MKF folks who hang on to the sliver of hope that MK will make a run at 2010, when her actions dictate that she has moved on already.

Still, Cohen achieved quite a bit in her career, more than most give her credit for. The only thing better than that Silver is the OGM.

 

[JPierce]

I think only Cohen fans in some dream world would ever actually expect her to come back. Face it, her competitive career is over.

http://www.sashacohen.com/break.shtml

'Cohen made clear she is not leaving the sport, only taking a respite due to the heavy demands of training for the Torino Olympics.

“These past few years have been incredibly intense and demanding, so I need a little down time from competing,” Cohen said.

“I have every intention of competing in future competitions. My major goals are the 2009 LA Worlds and the 2010 Vancouver Olympics,” Cohen said. “I love the thrill competition brings, and I’m not ready to give that up. But I’m the type of person who is all or nothing. When I train and compete, it’s my life. I can’t be there just to be there."'


I try not to get too irritated when I see SO many people basically calling Sasha a liar, or making comparisons to Michelle when Michelle has made no statement remotely like this, but it is very irritating nonetheless. I have to assume they (and you) simply don't know what Sasha has repeatedly said, and don't believe me until I smack them in the face with it. Oh, and she said these same things again in a recent interview. I can't find it right now, but if you really want to be smacked in the face with that also, just let me know.

You're right that she may get injured. You're wrong about EVERYTHING else.

(P.S.: Thanks for making me laugh... yes I should believe trolls on the internet rather than Sasha herself... if I took Sasha's word over yours I'd be living in a "dream world" LOL!!)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Sasha always had trouble with the LP. Her SP would be stunning, her cheesefests would be stunning but when she had to skate a further minute, it just was never there.

I agree, she should make a super Pro skater but who knows with Sasha? She's liable to get bored with all this road trip business and no cameras flashing.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

... You're right that she may get injured. You're wrong about EVERYTHING else.
...

It isn't just that Sasha "may" get injured -- there is also the question of becoming competitive, under whatever the rules will require in a year or two, without undue risk of future injury. After all, they seems to change the rules fairly often, and, changes in the future may make it impossible for Sasha to return to competition without risking further injury to her back (or, conversely, depending on the nature of the tweaks, Michelle may be able to return without risking undue further injury to her hip).

 

[gio]

Sasha always reminded me of Katarina Witt. Those eyes, facial expressions, being flirtatious, almost theatrical.

Unfortunately she didn't have the nerves to skate for 4 minutes without doing an error. I think the pressure played a big factor. She had desire to win, but couldn't hold her nerves. Same as Michelle and Irina at OG. They had the desire to win. But the nerves were too much. IMHO