Thoughts on the season so far

[mizu_iro]

Oops, made a mistake, Onda was 4th. (Edit my previous post accordingly.)
That game as I recall, Onda's performance was certainly better than Nakano's, IMHO. Yoshie was really ON and her performance there is one of her most memorable!
But it might have been that it was impressive as HER performance. Can't be sure about objective evaluations, LOL.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=to7Fzjns7Nw
Yukari landed everything and got a standing ovation. It was really her two downgrades that did her in...I don't really know if the loop should have been downgraded or not.

 

[bekalc]

That is only a partial perspective of that ever-controversial matter.
1. JSF had previously annouced that they would basically nominate the top 3 who gather the most ISU standing points within the latest 2 seasons.
2. They also said that they'll also take the Nationals (Dec. '05) in consideration as well.
3. Miki had much more ISU points over Yukari.
4. Yukari was 5th and Miki in slump was 6th in that Nationals.

IMO which to choose must have been a very difficult decision to make. How soon Miki would recover was sort of a bet. She soon recovered from her slump by the time of Japan Open 2 months after that Olys, but of course that recovery was not soon enough.

To conceive that the "investment" had influence on the choice may be inevitable or even seem natural.
To this the JSF of course says no, while Yukari says out loud "I think it had" and the revenge to that decision has been her main motivation so far.

Come to think of it, that controversy had good effects on both of the two skaters after all.
And the two are friends too.

I wouldn't say that the situation helped Yukari whatsover. She may never get another shot at the Olympics. And it was quite clear that the Japanese Federation from the very beginning was trying to stack the deck. Nakano beat Miki Ando every single time they faced that season, and they faced each other 3 times. She also beat Fumie 2 out of 3 they met as well, before the Olympics.

It's quite clear that Nakano would have done better at the Olympics then what Miki actually did. Honestly, I didn't get it. Miki Ando's results at the time were hardly world beater. She had a Junior world championship sure, but she also had a fourth and then sixth world finish. It's not like Ando was a reigning world medalist. I felt for Nakano in this situation. The Japanese federation shouldn't have made it impossible for someone who was not on the world team the year before, to not make the team.

Ando may have had a shot at medaling at that Olympics, but she wasn't going to win... All of the former Olympic gold medalist for years and years have all at least had a world medal before been given the Olympic gold. No way was figure skating judges going to feel that Ando was deserving.

 

[Wrlmy]

I wouldn't say that the situation helped Yukari whatsover. She may never get another shot at the Olympics. And it was quite clear that the Japanese Federation from the very beginning was trying to stack the deck. Nakano beat Miki Ando every single time they faced that season, and they faced each other 3 times. She also beat Fumie 2 out of 3 they met as well, before the Olympics.

It's quite clear that Nakano would have done better at the Olympics then what Miki actually did. Honestly, I didn't get it. Miki Ando's results at the time were hardly world beater. She had a Junior world championship sure, but she also had a fourth and then sixth world finish. It's not like Ando was a reigning world medalist. I felt for Nakano in this situation. The Japanese federation shouldn't have made it impossible for someone who was not on the world team the year before, to not make the team.

Ando may have had a shot at medaling at that Olympics, but she wasn't going to win... All of the former Olympic gold medalist for years and years have all at least had a world medal before been given the Olympic gold. No way was figure skating judges going to feel that Ando was deserving.

Japanese federation had more expectation on Miki rather than Shizuka or Fumie. They were hoping Miki would magically land quad with a clean program, which could get her a podium finish. So their no.1 choice was actually Miki. Now, two spots left. Sure, Nakano beat Fumie 2 out of 3 times, but Fumie was a far more reliable skater with a respectable record. And Shizuka, oh well, she was a former world champion and had supposedly more difficult program than anyone but Miki and Mao. So, IMO, Fumie was sent b/c she was reliable skater, and Miki and Shizuka were selected because they actually had shots at podium IF they skated clean as planned. Neither did. But Shizuka still won gold

 

[bekalc]

Japanese federation had more expectation on Miki rather than Shizuka or Fumie. They were hoping Miki would magically land quad with a clean program, which could get her a podium finish. So their no.1 choice was actually Miki. Now, two spots left. Sure, Nakano beat Fumie 2 out of 3 times, but Fumie was a far more reliable skater with a respectable record. And Shizuka, oh well, she was a former world champion and had supposedly more difficult program than anyone but Miki and Mao. So, IMO, Fumie was sent b/c she was reliable skater, and Miki and Shizuka were selected because they actually had shots at podium IF they skated clean as planned. Neither did. But Shizuka still won gold

They were not very smart then.... Shizuka was their best shot at the gold medal. Some of their Miki was their favorite was due to corporate spots. And I would put Fumie over Nakano.

Honestly, I like Miki it's not a criticism of her, but she didn't belong on that team that year.

 

[Wrlmy]

They were not very smart then.... Shizuka was their best shot at the gold medal. Some of their Miki was their favorite was due to corporate spots. And I would put Fumie over Nakano.

Honestly, I like Miki it's not a criticism of her, but she didn't belong on that team that year.

I agree. And I feel bad for Nakano even though I'm not a fan of her skating. In the clip Mizu_Iro posted, Yukari says that triple axel is her only "weapon" in the fluff. She landed it, so good for her. But, there was no way Yukari could land on podium even with the triple axel at that time. So I understand why Japanese federation chose Miki over Yukari (aside from all the corporate sponsorships and etc.), but it was unfair.

 

[bekalc]

I hate Nakano's leg wrap, and what's frustrating about it. Is without the wrap, I think that Nakano could be right up their with Mao and Yu-na. Still, I'm rooting for her to medal at this year's world championships.

 

[Wrlmy]

I hate Nakano's leg wrap, and what's frustrating about it. Is without the wrap, I think that Nakano could be right up their with Mao and Yu-na. Still, I'm rooting for her to medal at this year's world championships.

If losing leg wrap will solve her underrotation problems, I too think she will be. I just hope she will learn how to present herself as more likable person. I know she is a very good skater, and she has warm, nice personality in REAL LIFE. But she doesn't show that side of her on the ice nor in K&S (actually this bothers me the most). Anyway, I hope she does well too. Honestly, I will be rooting for either Joannie or Czisny to medal at the worlds, but we agree either Mao or Yuna will win at least, right?

 

[ks777]

The problem the JSF had was that Miki, Shizuka and fumie were already doing commercials for the Olympic sponsors Prior to the japanese nationals. Especially Miki, She had several commercials for the Olympic sponsors and the JSF might have helped the sponsors selecting skaters for the commercials or ads.... so if Mki or shizuka didn't make it, the sponsors wouldn't have been happy that their skaters didn't make it to the olympics when they paid big bucks to the JFS or Japan Olympics Committe. that's what it came down to. So they had no choice but to Choose the 3 skaters.

 

[Hsuhs]

Especially Miki, She had several commercials for the Olympic sponsors and the JSF might have helped the sponsors selecting skaters for the commercials or ads....

Wonder why Miki was chosen over Shizuka.

 

[ks777]

Miki was really popular back then.

 

[bekalc]

Miki was really popular back then.

She still is..

 

[Bennett]

I feel more for Yoshie Onda who seems to have done a performance of her life in that event, than for Yukari. Yukari's jumps do underrotate, which is hard to tell from the audience's excitement.

I don't think that Miki was JSF's favorite at that time though because she was going through downward spiral in anyone's eyes and indeed placed 6th at Nationals.

My surprise was actually Fumie winning over Mao who landed two triple axels. Mao beat Shizuka, Irina, and Sasha with just one 3A, and then why Fumie who lost to all of these three at the Olympics was capable of beating Mao? Mao did miss 2A in SP and a combo in LP, but still a bit surprising that she didn't win despite a clean LP with two 3As.

Wow, thinking back, I just come to feel so old now All these things look totally different from what it is now. Time flies. It's just surprising. Fumie had been really well-received at that time and Mao had still been a little adorable kid who had no pressures and was just so happy to skate. I really hope Fumie's revival and Mao's peace of mind. My prayers go to those two. Relax, enjoy, and believe in yourself....!

 

[bekalc]

Bennet if I recall correctly, in order to get the point totals to go to the Olympics, Fumie needed to win Nationals. Which is probably one of the reasons Fumie "beat" Mao.

 

[Bennett]

Bennet if I recall correctly, in order to get the point totals to go to the Olympics, Fumie needed to win Nationals. Which is probably one of the reasons Fumie "beat" Mao.

Wow, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

But yeah, it does sound like one of the possible reasons. JFS would have wanted to send Fumie to Olympics for sure. She had a good chance to medal.

Plus, Mao wasn't that dominant figure at that time. Despite her 3As, her presentation looked really juniorish. Fumie, on the other hand, looked really mature and could perhaps score better at PCSs in the Japanese events where she had been on the podium for many consecutive years.

Besides, Mao didn't lose anything anyway. She just looked happy landing two 3As and perhaps didn’t even think of winning. She looked really an adorable kid.

I hope Mao can recall such relaxed feelings again. She looks really nervous and full of pressure, which makes me feel a bit sad.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Looking at the TES from Nationals I am surprised to hear she landed 2 triple axels cleanly since Yoshie Onda who had stopped trying the triple axel at all by then was 2nd over her in the long, and beat her by 5 points on the TES.

It looks like Shizuka is the one they wanted to win the Japanese Nationals but she faltered in the long program, and Fumie was their next preferred choice so it went to her. Funny to see how much closer Fumie's clean short program was to Shizuka's then was the case at the Olympics when both went clean in the short though.

 

[OldSkaterMom]

Getting back to the Evan/Johnny controversy, I don't know if anyone has checked, but IceNetwork and ISU has a rating system that changes everyweek after a competition. For the week of Nov. 26, Evan remains in 2nd place on IceNetwork for the third week, behind Joubert. Johnny has climbed from way down the ladder to 6th (I think). He originally started out the season with only 98 points. Because of his two wins he has gained a lot of points.

ISU has Evan ranked 4th behind Joubert (first), Lambiel, and Takahashi for sometime. Johnny is ranked 10th. IceNetwork and ISU have different ranking systems which are almost impossible to figure out.

Considering the rankings, I do not see why there should be any question why Evan is given more promotion over JW. Also, with rankings such as Evan's, I do not see the criticism of his skating. Someone (perhaps the judges) seem to think he does pretty well. The area I believe Evan has been underscored on is his PC scores. However, there has been improvement in that area this season. The difference in Evan's and Johnny's skating is, I believe, a matter of preference is style. They are both great skaters. Evan definitely has a better work ethic. Johnny likes all things Russian. However, he does not skate like a Russian because he does not train like a Russian. Evan does have the Russian work ethic. His role model has been Evgeni Lysacek. That is why I put my money on Evan Lysacek for 2008 Nationals and 2010 Olympics. It just all makes sense.

The remark about Evan's choreography is also off the beam. Lori Nichol does Evan's programs and does a great job. Evan skates with intensity, drama and passion. He draws you into his programs. That is the style of skating I prefer. Paul Wylie has always been one of my favorites and Evan puts me in mind of him. I prefer skaters who draw you into their programs where you can experience the emotion and passion they are expressing and experiencing themselves. That is part of the performance. JW is an isolated skater and does absolutely nothing for me. He is very talented, but his skating leaves me cold.

This is just my opinion regarding the style of skating I prefer. It will be a showdown Nationals which will make Nationals very exciting. I will be there. It is about time the US had two great skaters. It will be a real contest only if JW can hold it together.

 

[sorcerer]

I apologize to have lead some off-topic matter.
Please let me add just three things.

1. JSF and JOC (especially the latter) made decisions at that time, IMO, based on the possible number of medals, since that was to them the index of achievements rather than the placements in general. It seems to me that they took a chance on Miki letting it be "all or nothing". (I'm not saying that was right.)

2. Any mistake in the decisions made by the JSF/JOC wasn't the skater Miki's mistake. Also, the corporate promotions were sanctioned by the authority, not Miki's private work. But it was and still is to Miki the words of criticism tends to be aimed at, and IMO that must be a heavy burden for her.

3.

I wouldn't say that the situation helped Yukari whatsover. She may never get another shot at the Olympics.

I wouldn't take Olys THAT exceptional as a game, for Yukari or any other skater, they have many occasions of establishing status. Michelle and Irena, they didn't necessarily need Olympics to show that they are great.

 

[bekalc]

[
2. Any mistake in the decisions made by the JSF/JOC wasn't the skater Miki's mistake. Also, the corporate promotions were sanctioned by the authority, not Miki's private work. But it was and still is to Miki the words of criticism tends to be aimed at, and IMO that must be a heavy burden for her.

Sorcer, where did I blame Miki. Where did I say it was Miki's fault. All I said was that Miki didn't belong on the team at that time.

I don't blame Miki for what happened, I blame the Japanese Federation. And Sorcer the Olympics is that exceptional. It's every four years, and many skaters train with the dream of making the Olympics... There's always a world championship next year, but you may never get a shot at the Olympics. People said that Yukari looked completely heart broken and stunned after the "announcment."

And Nakano didn't have that great of a season last year. For example, she didn't land her triple axel. I wouldn't say missing the Olympics helped her at all. She probably felt helpless because it was clear it didn't frankly matter how well she skated.

 

[sorcerer]

...where did I blame Miki. Where did I say it was Miki's fault. All I said was that Miki didn't belong on the team at that time.

The quote from your post only belongs to paragraph "3".
Apologies for the bad layout of mine, should have written "3" before the quote.
I know very well that you never blamed Miki.
I just referred to the way the general discussion tend to go, though this too is very much IMO.

...many skaters train with the dream of making the Olympics... People said that Yukari looked completely heart broken and stunned after the "announcment."

Yes. I think so was Onda. I felt sorry for both of them at that time. But when there is a choice, somebody is always hurt.

The JSF changed the selection system last season to taking only the results of the Nationals into account, one shot and that's it. This I think has gone too far in the other direction, but sure does avoid the runner-up being hurt.
You know, Nakano profitted from this new system and Suguri didn't.
This year JFS says if you win the GPF then you're automatically to the worlds.

 

[sorcerer]

And Nakano didn't have that great of a season last year. For example, she didn't land her triple axel. I wouldn't say missing the Olympics helped her at all. She probably felt helpless because it was clear it didn't frankly matter how well she skated.

Perhaps this may be good to refer to.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/sp20071125jg.html

As I said, I can only agree very partially on this writer saying "politics and sponsorship intervened".

BTW, I think Nakano did just as good as the preceding season in the last, even points wise.